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Maggie’s Anew thought on things

spartan67

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 24, 2009
996
2,777
central ny
Just saw this on FB and never thought about this before.
I know its a little long.

In the memory of John Noveske "A True American Badass" here is his last status before his untimely death. Noveske was a prominent rifle manufacturer and by the looks of it had a correct idea of why the violence in America happen: Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
New York high school.

Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....

What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21...... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az

What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24..... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado

What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or

What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct
Roberts is the only one that I haven't heard about being on drugs of some kind.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

Interesting. Might get more feedback in the political forum.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

Id attach that list to emails to your senators. there is so much bullshit information being spewed about us and our evil hobbies every bit helps sending these concerns their way
 
Re: Anew thought on things

I - a physician, board certified in Family Practice medicine going on 14 years - and my wife - board certified Marriage and Family Therapy for almost 17 years - were talking about this very thing not too long ago.

Thing is - and it's not a small thing - depressed people often become "disconnected" from "reality." I added the quote levels to make the point that to many people, both expressions are fungible terms of art. "Your reality is not MY reality" is something you might hear from several quarters of our culture these days.

As my wife said: "The common threads are depression and treatment for depression. Depression often has comorbidities which include psychosis, delusions, personality changes/disorders and history of trauma. It’s not as simple as 'they all took antidepressants.'"

You really need to think about this for a moment.

The most common link is really the depression.

The agents acting on it (the depressed mind) include psychotherapists, violent movies, videogames, comic book literature (among others), music and other pop culture themes, and a culture which has abdicated its responsibility to the weakest among us including the unborn, debilitated and elderly.

There's also the fact that whoever kills the most people in the most egregious manner seem to get the most press coverage. Fame if not fortune. Every kid who slaughters a dozen or more gets his name plastered on the nightly news and every newspaper for weeks and months on end. Infamy, fame, what's the difference.

The lure of easy money may have a very strong appeal, but fame draws people to its flame like moths, and many will burn in the fires of hell for their fifteen minutes of fame.

According to many of my colleagues in the CAM - Complimentary and Alternative Medicine - crowd, the "toxins" in our water, air and food chain are further weakening our minds, bodies, and their connections to life, the universe and everything.

Weaken the minds and over time we become more suggestive, and the suggestions kids are getting are predominantly those of violence, murder, torture, rape and every other sort of vile abomination portrayed on the silver screen and internet as the most natural everyday ordinary event imaginable.

This is the LTC Dave Grossman hypothesis, and I agree with it whole heartedly. Start your reading with his first book "On Killing."

I also believe there are powers and principalities of the air (and computers) that are working on making this world more chaotic and hell-like in preparation for its future rulers to feel oh-so-much more at-home.

But any further venturing in this direction would be perceived as religious or political and would find me banned - again - and I won't go there.

I've got to say you're close to the truth, and to keep looking away from mainstream media's simple solutions to "gun violence."

At least until they start talking about "car violence," or "hurricane violence" or "baseball bat violence" and so on. Because it's a "foolish consistency which is the hobgoblin of small minds," not a sound and coherent consistency.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: normbal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I - a physician, board certified in Family Practice medicine going on 14 years - and my wife - board certified Marriage and Family Therapy for almost 17 years - were talking about this very thing not too long ago.

Thing is - and it's not a small thing - depressed people often become "disconnected" from "reality." I added the quote levels to make the point that to many people, both expressions are fungible terms of art. "Your reality is not MY reality" is something you might hear from several quarters of our culture these days.

As my wife said: "The common threads are depression and treatment for depression. Depression often has comorbidities which include psychosis, delusions, personality changes/disorders and history of trauma. It’s not as simple as 'they all took antidepressants.'"

You really need to think about this for a moment.

The most common link is really the depression.

The agents acting on it (the depressed mind) include psychotherapists, violent movies, videogames, comic book literature (among others), music and other pop culture themes, and a culture which has abdicated its responsibility to the weakest among us including the unborn, debilitated and elderly.

There's also the fact that whoever kills the most people in the most egregious manner seem to get the most press coverage. Fame if not fortune. Every kid who slaughters a dozen or more gets his name plastered on the nightly news and every newspaper for weeks and months on end. Infamy, fame, what's the difference.

The lure of easy money may have a very strong appeal, but fame draws people to its flame like moths, and many will burn in the fires of hell for their fifteen minutes of fame.

<span style="color: #FF0000"> According to many of my colleagues in the CAM - Complimentary and Alternative Medicine - crowd, the "toxins" in our water, air and food chain are further weakening our minds, bodies, and their connections to life, the universe and everything.

Weaken the minds and over time we become more suggestive, and the suggestions kids are getting are predominantly those of violence, murder, torture, rape and every other sort of vile abomination portrayed on the silver screen and internet as the most natural everyday ordinary event imaginable. </span>

This is the LTC Dave Grossman hypothesis, and I agree with it whole heartedly. Start your reading with his first book "On Killing."

<span style="color: #FF0000">I also believe there are powers and principalities of the air (and computers) that are working on making this world more chaotic and hell-like in preparation for its future rulers to feel oh-so-much more at-home.

But any further venturing in this direction would be perceived as religious or political and would find me banned - again - and I won't go there. </span>

I've got to say you're close to the truth, and to keep looking away from mainstream media's simple solutions to "gun violence."

At least until they start talking about "car violence," or "hurricane violence" or "baseball bat violence" and so on. Because it's a "foolish consistency which is the hobgoblin of small minds," not a sound and coherent consistency. </div></div>

I had been thinking about mentioning that for some time, Norm, but didnt for the reasons you mention. I agree. PM me if youd like to chat further. Sorry I didnt get to meet you when you were in Gordonsville.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

I cnt get this to copy and paste...can you send a link?
 
Re: Anew thought on things

Well put. My only feedback would be the fact they were not all depressed according to that chart. I believe someone was seeing a doctor for gallstones and someone else went in to get help with being able to fall asleep. There may have been more, but those two clearly tell me (assuming that the list is factual) that depression was not the common thread.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: normbal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I - a physician, board certified in Family Practice medicine going on 14 years - and my wife - board certified Marriage and Family Therapy for almost 17 years - were talking about this very thing not too long ago.

Thing is - and it's not a small thing - depressed people often become "disconnected" from "reality." I added the quote levels to make the point that to many people, both expressions are fungible terms of art. "Your reality is not MY reality" is something you might hear from several quarters of our culture these days.

As my wife said: "The common threads are depression and treatment for depression. Depression often has comorbidities which include psychosis, delusions, personality changes/disorders and history of trauma. It’s not as simple as 'they all took antidepressants.'"

You really need to think about this for a moment.

The most common link is really the depression.

The agents acting on it (the depressed mind) include psychotherapists, violent movies, videogames, comic book literature (among others), music and other pop culture themes, and a culture which has abdicated its responsibility to the weakest among us including the unborn, debilitated and elderly.

There's also the fact that whoever kills the most people in the most egregious manner seem to get the most press coverage. Fame if not fortune. Every kid who slaughters a dozen or more gets his name plastered on the nightly news and every newspaper for weeks and months on end. Infamy, fame, what's the difference.

The lure of easy money may have a very strong appeal, but fame draws people to its flame like moths, and many will burn in the fires of hell for their fifteen minutes of fame.

According to many of my colleagues in the CAM - Complimentary and Alternative Medicine - crowd, the "toxins" in our water, air and food chain are further weakening our minds, bodies, and their connections to life, the universe and everything.

Weaken the minds and over time we become more suggestive, and the suggestions kids are getting are predominantly those of violence, murder, torture, rape and every other sort of vile abomination portrayed on the silver screen and internet as the most natural everyday ordinary event imaginable.

This is the LTC Dave Grossman hypothesis, and I agree with it whole heartedly. Start your reading with his first book "On Killing."

I also believe there are powers and principalities of the air (and computers) that are working on making this world more chaotic and hell-like in preparation for its future rulers to feel oh-so-much more at-home.

But any further venturing in this direction would be perceived as religious or political and would find me banned - again - and I won't go there.

I've got to say you're close to the truth, and to keep looking away from mainstream media's simple solutions to "gun violence."

At least until they start talking about "car violence," or "hurricane violence" or "baseball bat violence" and so on. Because it's a "foolish consistency which is the hobgoblin of small minds," not a sound and coherent consistency. </div></div>
 
Re: Anew thought on things

good shit there Doc.
which is why i NEVER take prescription drugs for anything

i just hit the bubbler!
 
Re: Anew thought on things

I saw a post from a Doc on another forum in which he was saying how the first questions from colleagues was, "what kind of meds was he on or had he been prescribed?". I mentioned this to one of the ER Docs and he and I had a pretty in depth conversation about the whole medication link to the violent acts. Seems there are quite a lot of medical professionals questioning the same thing.

Thanks for the great post and info Normbal!!
 
Re: Anew thought on things

I thought I would look up the side effects of some of the drugs mentioned in the OP. I didn't look all of them up, but most of the drugs I did look up. What I found is very disturbing.

Some drug side effects:

Zoloft -
Mild Degree of Mania Severe

Prozac -
Mild Degree of Mania Severe
Having Thoughts of Suicide Severe

Ritalin -
Hallucination Severe
Mental Disorder Resulting from Poisonous Agents Severe
Mood Changes Severe
Mental Disorder with Loss of Normal Personality & Reality Severe

Paxil -
Mild Degree of Mania Severe

Effexor -
Depression Severe
Confused Severe
Loss of One's Own Sense of Reality or Identity Severe
Feeling Anger Toward Something Less Severe
Mental Impairment Severe
Mild Degree of Mania Severe
Mood Changes Severe
Having Thoughts of Suicide Severe

Celexa -
Extreme Sense of Well Being Severe
Aggressive Behavior Severe
Mental Impairment Severe
Hallucination Severe
Mood Changes Severe
Delusions Severe
Paranoia Severe
Mental Disorder with Loss of Normal Personality & Reality Severe
Panic Disorder Severe
Loss of One's Own Sense of Reality or Identity Severe
Having Thoughts of Suicide Severe
Indifferent Behavior Less Severe
Abnormal Dreams Less Severe
Mild Degree of Mania Less Severe

Lexapro -
Aggressive Behavior Severe
Hallucination Severe
Mental Disorder with Loss of Normal Personality & Reality Severe
Having Thoughts of Suicide Severe
Easily Angered or Annoyed Less Severe

Source: webmd.com
 
Re: Anew thought on things

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter McGavin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought I would look up the side effects of some of the drugs mentioned in the OP. I didn't look all of them up, but most of the drugs I did look up. What I found is very disturbing.

Some drug side effects:

Zoloft -
Mild Degree of Mania Severe

Prozac -
Mild Degree of Mania Severe
Having Thoughts of Suicide Severe

Ritalin -
Hallucination Severe
Mental Disorder Resulting from Poisonous Agents Severe
Mood Changes Severe
Mental Disorder with Loss of Normal Personality & Reality Severe

Paxil -
Mild Degree of Mania Severe

Effexor -
Depression Severe
Confused Severe
Loss of One's Own Sense of Reality or Identity Severe
Feeling Anger Toward Something Less Severe
Mental Impairment Severe
Mild Degree of Mania Severe
Mood Changes Severe
Having Thoughts of Suicide Severe

Celexa -
Extreme Sense of Well Being Severe
Aggressive Behavior Severe
Mental Impairment Severe
Hallucination Severe
Mood Changes Severe
Delusions Severe
Paranoia Severe
Mental Disorder with Loss of Normal Personality & Reality Severe
Panic Disorder Severe
Loss of One's Own Sense of Reality or Identity Severe
Having Thoughts of Suicide Severe
Indifferent Behavior Less Severe
Abnormal Dreams Less Severe
Mild Degree of Mania Less Severe

Lexapro -
Aggressive Behavior Severe
Hallucination Severe
Mental Disorder with Loss of Normal Personality & Reality Severe
Having Thoughts of Suicide Severe
Easily Angered or Annoyed Less Severe

Source: webmd.com </div></div>

I think I'd rather be depressed...

When the side effects are worse than the original condition, maybe these drugs should be evaluated better.

Disclaimer: I am not an MD, and I understand that the side effects don't affect everyone the same way.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

Yeah, I wish they didn't give this shit to kids.

Ambien. I was given that some time back and I don't recall ANYTHING --not cleaning the house, not driving to the store, not taking all of the other medications at once, which could have killed me. I even had sex on it, my wife said I was "odd" but couldn't finger it. Fact was, I wasn't home.

It shocked the hell out of me, made me really concerned when my wife asked "what if you snapped?" I talked to the doctors about it, the one that prescribed it just shrugged it off. I ended up talking to an ER doc who entered it in the database.

Ambien just had its recommended dosage cut in half this week.

Academia combined with greed have led otherwise good doctors to sell out fellow man. I also saw a documentary, wish I could recall it, that talked about medicating children, how it is immoral, and about how the drug industry knows this, but does it anyway. They have a vested interest in what the diagnoses in the DSM, the diagnostic manual, say. Apparently, when questioned in the open, the ones responsible for labeling the diagnosis for child mental "disorders" can't actually define what that disorder is. In addition, if you had read into those drugs more, you'd have found that they ALL say "it is THOUGHT to work on (such and such receptors, etc.)..." Never says THIS is how it works definitively.

Isn't this human experimentation at its worst? I mean, shooting kids is one kind of evil. But making your money by laying the groundwork for these crimes is just incomprehensible.

The doctor is simply drilled in what this book says, and doesn't question the validity of it. I mean, how can they? Their entire reason to exist revolves around it. They prescribe this shit, somebody has to tell them HOW. That somebody, it seems, is the principal shareholder.

They are all happy as shit that nobody is fingering them. If anything, they are probably giddy over the fact "mental illness" is being thrown around. Those words usually mean big bucks to them.

Kids should not be given ANY drug for behavior, IMO.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

The wife and I don't believe in drugs. That is to say we will use drugs as a last resort. I was raise to let your body fight off colds and flus. If you had a high temp. that lasted over three days then the doctor would see you. Through out my life I have found doctors that have this philosophy and with my children it has been no different. When we lived in California we drove and hour to see the kid's doctor for their check ups. Now here in Texas we drive 40 minutes for the kid's annual check up. We have found these doctors and trust them because they aren't trying to push drugs on our children.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

I had a brother in law in the pharmacuticals industry. He was very clear that it was a fact that the Dr. used whatever drug had the best sales person, whether it meant he took the Dr golfing or sent in the girl with the huge tits they got the sale. It has nothing to do with facts of a specific drug being better for a patient based on their specific circumstances.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

They can add suicidal thoughts/tendencies to the side effects of Paxil too, I watched my mom lose her shit and try to end it on several occasions.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

My sister in law was on some kind of scrip in the late 90's... tried to off herself at least twice. Once she ditched the drugs, good to go. 15 years later, she is still healthy and happy, no scrips. That was a lesson to me, no "mood enhancement" drugs for my kids. Depression is a part of life, my dad said it best. "You get over it, or you'll die and it wont matter."
 
Re: Anew thought on things

Mental Health issues & Firearms Don't Mix . I had 2 friends in 2 years go . One friend was suicide with mental health a genetic issue already in his close family . & other was Friend murdered by his his girlfriend . Everyone friends & family knowing she was crazy as rat shit . Killed him while on the couch with his own gun, then called the cops & offed herself .

(imho) there is NOT enough documentation kept on the statistics of this problem & all the ( Death with Firearms ) is just lumped into a huge state or national statistic if published .
You got Physicians medicating & locked into privacy law with also same time Insurance industry working at there throats . And with the pharmaceutical industry in control on the other end .
How do you separate all this out ?
.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

There are things that can be changed right now that would limit the ability for criminals to get their hands on fire arms but instead of discussing those options we are fighting to ban things like assault rifles. The FBI murder statistics do not differentiate between types of rifles. There are about 100 million rifles in the United States. In 2009, the last year in which numbers have been reported, there were 13,636 murders. Guns were used to murder 9,146 people. Hands and feet were used to murder 801 people. Blunt objects were used to murder 611 people. Rifles were used to murder 348 people, and that is all rifles, of which assault rifles are only a small fraction. Assault rifles are used so infrequently in homicides that many police departments almost never see them; in 2009, there were nine states that did not have a single murder committed with any rifle.

Those are FACTS REAL NUMBERS indisputable.. So if that is the case than I would love for the anti gun people to please come and present FACTS that will prove that banning assault rifles will help solve the problem. The thing is I want to have an intelligent conversation about it.. Below are a few questions that I have. If any one can give answers to them I would love to hear them .

1- U.S. education was ranked at 14 out of the top 34 countries...17 for science and a staggering 25th for math.. Where is the outcry for this? where is the executive order for this? why is banning assault rifles that are only responsible for may be 1% of the murders in the U.S. more important than the fact that we are raising a nation of poorly educated youth? the final question on this subject- Where would our ranking be if the same effort as banning assault rifle was put into our education system?

2-- sinse 1979, 120,000 kids have been killed with guns- murder AND accidental. BUT!!! every single year 6 MILLION kids are abused ever YEAR!! 5+ children per day are killed by child abuse not involving a gun . 80% of all children that are abused are later diagnosed with a mental disorder stemming from that abuse. 50 to 60% of all child deaths caused by abuse are never reported on the death certificates. 90% of sexually abused kids know there abuser. 30% of abused children will grow up to be abusers themselves. 80% of kids that die from abuse are under the age of 4!

So heres my question....

Why is putting so much effort into gun control that has killed 120,000 kids in 33 years more important than putting that same effort into stopping the 196 MILLION kids that have been beaten raped, tortured and killed in the same amount of time?Where is your out cry for that ?

The numbers for abuse and death by abuse are staggering! The number of kids killed by guns is less than 1% of the number of kids killed due to abuse.. WHERE IS THE EFFORT TO STOP THIS??? WHY DO YOU NOT FOCUS YOUR ENERGY WHERE IT IS NEEDED?

I am not saying that the gun issue does not need to be addressed. I am simply asking where the real effort to work on the real problems is? instead of the just slapping a band aid on it and acting suprised as hell when it happens again. If you don't want it to happen again....

THAN YOU HAVE TO WORK ON THE REAL PROBLEMS!
 
Re: Anew thought on things

Our geniuses in the County Legislature passed a resolution calling for more gun laws, but they just laid off 16 Mental Health workers!! WTF?
 
Re: Anew thought on things

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: xs hedspace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our geniuses in the County Legislature passed a resolution calling for more gun laws, but they just laid off 16 Mental Health workers!! WTF? </div></div>

Idiots SOP.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

EP - I'll take a stab at the answers.

1. They have us right where they want us. Smart people reason with logic, not emotion. Schools producing smart kids would lead to more votes for the other side.

2. There's no money in it. If someone put together a superPAC with millions of dollars to lobby for this cause, things would get done.

Those are not the answers you'd get from any official. Just my thoughts on the subject.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

Not even the NRA is rely arguing any of This.

some of you may have herd about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Bradley

103 kids had there rights violated by a DR. and a video camera. but it got no where near the same attention as this. The repercussions of this cant be measured. and 103 kids will never have a normal life. This guy filmed his rapes but we are not going after video cameras.

the Oklahoma city bombing killed something like 160 18 i think were kids in a day care. no guns were used..

and I haven't herd any thing about fast and furious. you know the B.A.T.F. breaking its own laws and no one rely being held responsible for it.

I have not herd any one talking about how assault weapons are the least used type of guns in crimes? I'm confused as to why US as gun owners are not rely fighting the most intelligent fight. I'm not saying I'm a genius by any means.

WE SHOULD BE PUSHING TO SOLVE THE REAL PROBLEMS... and have real options seasonable options. Talk about the real problems facing our society and youth. BACKED UP WITH indisputable proof. things that are not arguable..

on the gun side of it. close gun show loop holes and all private sales must go through an ffl. Any responsible owner would not have a problem with.

May be a $50 tax stamp for assault weapons. with a full back ground check.. its better than loosing the right all together.

how about better laws about having your gun's properly secured at home... IF YOUR not in your home.

just thinking out loud
 
Re: Anew thought on things

This is not a gun issue but that's all we are talking about. the legal system is as much to blame.

How about mandatory stiff sentences for the use of a gun in a crime.

like. Armed robbery = mandatory 30 years for first offence no parole

possession of a gun after being convicted of a felony. mandatory 15 years no parole.

home invasion with a gun 40 years
assault with a gun 20 years

you get the idea. but instead there are guys doing 30 years for having an oz of weed.. what ever! We have to attack the problems and offer solutions.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

I think you are missing the point. There already is a $200 tax stamp on "assault weapons" I had a semi auto CO2 pellet gun as a kid, it looked like an M16. Is that an "assault weapon" just because it looks like it? NO.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

I understand that. and how many of full autos or s.b.r's or silencers were used in crimes???

a $50 tax stamp on semi auto's like ar's and ak's would cover the cost of doing a more extensive background check. it would not be the same as a full auto.. By submitting to better back ground checks your your giving just a little bit. and keeping a lot..
 
Re: Anew thought on things

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: epdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand that. and how many of full autos or s.b.r's or silencers were used in crimes???

a $50 tax stamp on semi auto's like ar's and ak's would cover the cost of doing a more extensive background check. it would not be the same as a full auto.. By submitting to better back ground checks your your giving just a little bit. and keeping a lot.. </div></div>
I agree with that. But shouldn't that apply to all semi autos, not just the ones that look scary? It's not the hunting rifles that everyone is afraid of.
 
Re: Anew thought on things

Amen! Meds are $$$. You have adults and children alike walking around like zombies being medicated from feelings, growing up in the 50-70's you just dealt with. And then god forbid you take em off and let them experience real life in real time. People popping Ambien,Xanax,Clonipin, just to name a few ,like tic tacs.

A client of mine is a special ed teacher in Vermont. (late 20's)
She teaches 13-22 yr olds. Its not uncommon for a student to slash her tires(which she has to replace $$) because most of the students are low income she makes them stay after school cleaning and making up the damages in 'time' One such student has Aspergers. She spent two yrs working with this one particular angry student. He graduated with a diploma and because of 'someone giving a shit and spending time with him' helped him become a non-agressive member of society. First to graduate in his family. He thanked her and couldn't believe she helped him because of what he had done.

She said most of these kids have no consistancy, they aren't sure if a caregiver or food will be home when they get there, so she stays consistant in her classroom.

The school in the next district slashed special ed $$ so a cop could be placed in the school.
And dare I tell you how much $$ this special ed teacher makes in a year. She can't compete with the deep pockets of lobbyists and pharm companies..Sad isn't it.

In her own right she helped spare possibly the next movie/mall/school shooting in VT or better yet, just saved some young wife or kids from abuse by a father who was taught to deal with his anger issues...NOT MEDS but someone giving a damn!!!!