Angle Shooting Question

[Insayn]

We are going through a refresher angle shooting course the next few days and pondered this question at breakfast.
If one is in a high rise building, say 300 yards up and your hostage taker positioned themself directly below you at a 0 degree angle. Your rifle is zeroed at 100 yards and your 300 yard come up is 3.5 moa. How would you adjust to take the critical shot?

My solution was to dope for your sight height, say 2" like on mine. That way your line of sight and line of departure are parallel then hold off the actual sight height on the hostage taker since gravity is not in play.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

i would take the elevator down to the second floor....break the window out with a shape charge....then use my sixty thousand dollar glock 17 to neutralize the situation.......

 

[Insayn]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

Haha...that was my early answer in the conversation, except I went to the ground floor.

 

[Aqua Mark]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

Our data books have an extreme angle page. If you want, I can email you the formula.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

Angled Fire Explained

 

[Insayn]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My solution was to dope for your sight height, say 2" like on mine. That way your line of sight and line of departure are parallel then hold off the actual sight height on the hostage taker since gravity is not in play.</div></div>

When you have your 100 yard zero on the gun, your sight is not parallel to the bore - it's already set for the drop from the muzzle to 100 yards. So, you're going to have to compensate for that as well as the height above bore. For a straight down shot like that, irrespective of the distance, I'd say hold about 3 to 3.5 inches high on the target, "high" being in the direction the scope is above the bore.
</div></div>

I know the bore and LOS aren't parallel at the 100 yard zero. Its set where the LOD and LOS intersect, so I was wondering if I tried to make it parallel by doping for the sight height (I am theorizing it would make them parallel because at 0 yards the height is 2" and doped at 100 yards for 2" it should make it parallel..taking gravity out of the equation). Now taking the shot we would hold a little high to compensate for the LOS vs LOD difference (2").
Not that this is something any of us would do, just trying to solve the problem. I know how to use the Cosine formulas but at 90 degrees its set at 0 cosine. So if you plug that into the formula your answer is 0 yards, which leads me to believe at 0 yards it is the height difference of LOS and LOD.

 

[Insayn]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hypethetically, if you're on top the building, shooting zero angle, 300 yards up (which is a hell of a high building, I mean a story is what 10ft-12ft, say 10 then your on something in the twentyth to thirtyth story or some crap) better make sure your spotter can hold your ankles and the spot n' scope damn tight.

But seriously, that shot wouldn't happen, unless your a delingquent with a gun. That shot would be in a city, where more than likely more than one shooter would be present, lower to the ground, not to mention ground personel.

But if you were to pull this shooting acrobatics off and no variables were present like wind, etc., I believe dial for 300 and go, pretty sure the aim low for angle rule doesn't apply. Police snipers are pretty limited on distance most of the time especially in cities, there are wind currents in areas like that that are difficult to read, best not to shoot, move or observe. </div></div>

Now if you dial for 300 yards you just dialed in 300 yards of gravity, with a 90* downward shot gravity isn't pulling the bullet the way you just doped so you'd miss by the 300 yard dope distance (3.5 moa = ~10.5" at 300 yards).

 

[Guest]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

90* = 0 COS

Assuming his hostage is in front left of him. Hold dead on with your 100 yd dope just a shade toward the back right of the top of his head. Send it.

Then go home and smoke a bowl...nooch.

 

[Guest]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

(Mallrats is on)

 

[Insayn]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

Bwaaaa...my wife is watching a show with a fat guy looking for a fat bride on Fox.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

Yeah, I deleted that post after thinking about it. It's more complicated than I initially thought.

And here's my thinking about it. The drop from the muzzle to 100 yards, which is your zero range, is about 1.8 inches with a .308. Use your actual drop if you're shooting something else.

Assume that the scope height above bore is 1.5 inches.

If the scope were actually parallel to the bore, on a horizontal shot the bullet would impact low from the point of aim by the height of the scope above the bore, plus the drop. In this case, that would be 1.8+1.5 or 3.3 inches.

So, to get the scope parallel to the bore, we'll have to crank the turrets up an additional 3.3 inches at 100 yards, which is an angle of 3.15 MOA, or about 0.92 mils. (Round that off to the nearest increment which works with your scope.)

Now, once you do that, with the barrel pointed straight down, the POI will always be "low", i.e., in the direction of the line of the bore from the line of sight of the scope, by the height of the scope above the bore, <span style="font-style: italic">irrespective of the distance from the muzzle to the target.</span>

So, crank in that elevation, and then hold off "high" by the height of the scope above the bore, which you can judge pretty easily using the relative size of the target, i.e., the top of the hostage taker's head.

That's what I think - at the moment...

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

the glock thingie was much easier.....

 

[Lindy]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

Well, if you're really right above the target, you could just drop a safe on him...

It's have to be a <span style="font-style: italic">tactical</span> safe, of course...

For that matter, a bullet dropped from 900 feet would probably work, too.

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

It completely depends on METT-T

 

[Lindy]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

Ah, the military non-answer to every question.

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

it works

 

[Lindy]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, to get the scope parallel to the bore, we'll have to crank the turrets up an additional 3.3 inches at 100 yards, which is an angle of 3.15 MOA, or about 0.92 mils. (Round that off to the nearest increment which works with your scope.)</div></div>

OK - I just realized that's backwards.

What we want is for the POI to be 3.3 inches <span style="font-weight: bold">below</span> the point of aim.

So what we have to do is to crank the turrets <span style="font-weight: bold">down</span>, not up.

If we can't do that because of a zero stop, then we'll just have to establish a new point of aim by holding the amount of the correction for parallel bore low on the reticle, and then hold that point high by the amount of the scope height above bore.

Too hard. Drop the safe on him.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

Bruce Willis taught me a lot

 

[Insayn]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

Push a desk out the window and get them both....the hostage should not have got themself into that position

 

[fusiachi]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

If the drop is 1.8" at 100 yards I'm guessing that holding 5.4" to the muzzle side is going to be close, but not as elegant a solution as this:

 

[Arch]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

300 yards up. zero degrees. LOL.

 

[25IA260]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

Nu B,...i don't know a thing about complicated formulas an how to figure the solution of changing poi i'm starting to shoot paper an learning but reading for interest on the question, it got me thinking .. if you took the bolt out of the gun an looked down thru the barrel 'straight down' at the hostage taker an then in the scope 'thinking zero gravity' you most likely have to move the turret adjustment up a couple of moa..

 

[Lindy]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...you most likely have to move the turret adjustment up...</div></div>

It depends on what you mean by "up".

If you have a 100 yard zero on the rifle, the scope is actually pointing <span style="font-style: italic">below</span> the line of sight of the bore, to compensate for (a) the height of the scope above the bore, and (b) the drop of the bullet between the muzzle and the target.

That way, when the scope is sighted on the target, the muzzle is canted slightly up.

 

[Guest]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Insayn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How would you adjust to take the critical shot?</div></div>
Dail in your 1 yard mechanical offset, hold the offset, check the wind, an shoot. Mines 2.25"
I had to check my offset with plywood, paper did not work at all with a 300wm.

 

[malaga2]

Re: Angle Shooting Question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i would take the elevator down to the second floor....break the window out with a shape charge....then use my sixty thousand dollar glock 17 to neutralize the situation....... </div></div>

funniest shit Ive read all day