Has anyone correlated neck brass thickness to the amount of time it takes to properly anneal a case? I know there can be many variable such as torch settings and how close the flame is to the neck, but I wanted to bounce the question off of people that know much more about reloading than me. My local reloading mentor doesn't have a very precise method. He say hold the flame to the neck for 5 seconds and you're good.
Annealing question
- Thread starter BC 6.8
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well its about 5-6 seconds you kinda have to learn it the hard way. I tried this but i counted too quickly and now I make sure I count normal not fast
Tell your mentor to start using some tempilaq, and you can both start to learn how to anneal correctly.
Using this system I feel allows the necks to anneal at a proper temp regardless of neck variance.
You have about 15 degrees up or down to anneal once you hit the sweet spot when the metal starts to dance.
It is very hard to do it with out a annealing machine, don't assume that color matching to new annealed brass is right.
On my cases the color variance is a lot lighter than new annealed brass, and I do use the tempilaq to set up,
most guys over anneal their brass..............my two cents.
Using this system I feel allows the necks to anneal at a proper temp regardless of neck variance.
You have about 15 degrees up or down to anneal once you hit the sweet spot when the metal starts to dance.
It is very hard to do it with out a annealing machine, don't assume that color matching to new annealed brass is right.
On my cases the color variance is a lot lighter than new annealed brass, and I do use the tempilaq to set up,
most guys over anneal their brass..............my two cents.
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Get a metronome app for your smartphone. That way you don't have to count at all...and your annealing will be incredibly consistent. Also, keep an eye out on your torch setting. If you pop in a new propane bottle and start torching away, if you're using one of those small coleman bottles or the like, you'll find the flame will reduce in size over time and you'll actually need to hold the brass in the flame a bit longer to continue getting consistent results.
Tempilaq is a must. I use 400 for the base, 700 for the neck. I had the same question you had...and I just went with the middle of the road since there seems to be some debate on the 650-750 range. However, once you anneal a dozen or so cases, you'll never need to use tempilaq again unless you want to check the heat if your torch flame appears to move out of adjustment.
In my experience, 6 seconds works for .308 lapua brass. If I get low on propane, 7 seconds.
Seriously though...if you don't pick up one of those fancy annealing machines, get a metronome app on your iphone. It's free, and you'll be amazed at how consistent your results will be.
Tempilaq is a must. I use 400 for the base, 700 for the neck. I had the same question you had...and I just went with the middle of the road since there seems to be some debate on the 650-750 range. However, once you anneal a dozen or so cases, you'll never need to use tempilaq again unless you want to check the heat if your torch flame appears to move out of adjustment.
In my experience, 6 seconds works for .308 lapua brass. If I get low on propane, 7 seconds.
Seriously though...if you don't pick up one of those fancy annealing machines, get a metronome app on your iphone. It's free, and you'll be amazed at how consistent your results will be.
Dang it! You beat me to it! I was going to start a thread.
I bought a cheap metronome for $20 on Amazon. When you first turn it on the cadence defaults to 100 beats per minute. I just use that.
I've heard guys on YouTube counting seconds and thinking they were doing pretty good at it, but they were all over the place with their cadence.
I've also heard of guys who set a clock within vision, but then you can move in the flame while watching the clock.
The only senses that are free while annealing are hearing, taste and smell. Might as well use that hearing to get the timing consistent. I'm much more confident with the metronome.
The time required is not appreciably impacted by neck thickness. It's very thin, brass is a good conductor of heat, and there's a lot of energy in that torch. The temperature is what you're after, which is best done with Tempilaq. It turns out that the temperature isn't a terribly sensitive thing. Once you hit a certain temp (approximately 700 degrees), the brass gets soft quickly and then slows down, so overshooting a little isn't disastrous.
For more information, I wrote this: The Science of Cartridge Brass Annealing | Bison Ballistics
For more information, I wrote this: The Science of Cartridge Brass Annealing | Bison Ballistics
hehe...yep. I was surprised when reading different threads about annealing that nobody ever mentioned a metronome. Even varying by 1 second will cause a noticeable difference in your results, and a metronome ensures that doesn't happen. You are right about the cadence of YouTube videos. Watching the video timer some guys will count to 7-8 seconds (one-one thousand, two-one thousand...) and it's actually 12-13 seconds. That's enough difference to ruin your brass and/or cause wild differences in neck tension.
I am using 60 beats per minute, but I've thought about using 120 per minute to get a more accurate count.
One super cheap setup I made on my bench is I have two pieces of dowel rod clamped down on my bench with a third dowel rod as a stop for my drill (I use the lee shell holder method). This way I can blindly move the drill to the flame and away from the flame and it's essentially on rails as I move the drill. This helps ensure the brass is in the same spot, every time. I have another piece of wood (different lengths for different calibers) that is perpendicular to the dowel rods and that sets the distance of the torch to the drill and case mouth/neck.
Sorry if that's hard to visualize...I don't have any pictures handy.
I am using 60 beats per minute, but I've thought about using 120 per minute to get a more accurate count.
One super cheap setup I made on my bench is I have two pieces of dowel rod clamped down on my bench with a third dowel rod as a stop for my drill (I use the lee shell holder method). This way I can blindly move the drill to the flame and away from the flame and it's essentially on rails as I move the drill. This helps ensure the brass is in the same spot, every time. I have another piece of wood (different lengths for different calibers) that is perpendicular to the dowel rods and that sets the distance of the torch to the drill and case mouth/neck.
Sorry if that's hard to visualize...I don't have any pictures handy.
Thanks for the advice. I don't have an Iphone but I will definitely us a metronome on the computer or something. I'm thinking about using my Lyman case prep center to turn the brass and then rig up some kind of pivot for the torch. I would obviously use a leather glove to remove the cases.
Has anyone used the Tempilstik vs. Tempilaq? Seems like the Stik would be easier to clean up.
Has anyone used the Tempilstik vs. Tempilaq? Seems like the Stik would be easier to clean up.
Don't use the stick...the paint is much better. The paint is easy to clean off if you wipe it while it's still hot right after annealing. I suggest taking 4-5 cases and dedicating them to annealing. Then you don't have to worry about wiping it off cases you are going to load.
Plus, it is my understanding that the stick doesn't actually melt until the desired temperature is reached so you can't really paint a case like you can with the Tepilaq.
Plus, it is my understanding that the stick doesn't actually melt until the desired temperature is reached so you can't really paint a case like you can with the Tepilaq.
