Annealing

sic65stang

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 29, 2010
253
1
35
Virginia Beach, VA
I understand the purpose behind the annealing process but I am wondering actually how many people do it? Should it be done on a regular basis? Do you do it on all reloads or only on reloads for accuracy? Basically looking for input on if I should add this process to my reloading setup. Thanks.
 

chansen49

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 26, 2009
415
0
Sunny Socal
Re: Annealing



If you want to extend the life of your brass, because brass work hardens.. Sometimes brass gets so hard you cant bump the shoulder back enough when you resize, also the hardened brass makes for some funky neck tension on the bullet. Something every reloader should look into.


Ch
 

427Cobra

Lt. Colonel
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Nov 24, 2005
    5,871
    255
    Sanger, TEXAS!
    Re: Annealing

    Short range BR boys don't anneal, I know guy who practices 2-3 a week and has used the same 20 cases for over a year, we are talking about hundreds of reloads, but he only sizes his cases .0015 on the neck and .0005 shoulder bump, yes the miss conception of BR boys NS only is completely wrong, LR shooters should anneal every 2-3 firings, consistent neck tension/release aids in consistent SD/ES readings, which in turn means smaller groups at distance or hits versus misses, the fact that brass lasts longer is a byproduct of annealing.
     

    normbal

    CPT USA (ret)
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 18, 2006
    118
    9
    Silver Spring, MD
    www.scribd.com
    Re: Annealing

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Robert Murphy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand the purpose behind the annealing process but I am wondering actually how many people do it? Should it be done on a regular basis? Do you do it on all reloads or only on reloads for accuracy? Basically looking for input on if I should add this process to my reloading setup. Thanks.</div></div>

    Just started, again. I've done this in the past for loads like .375 H&H magnum which I used to shoot a LOT of (thought I'd do a Safari in Tanzania at one time when I had more disposable income). It's not as hard as it sounds.

    I looked at several of the $400 (and up) annealing rigs then I found a sort of a tutorial on youtube where a guy used deep sockets on a drill. Easy enough. put a 1/4 inch adapter on the end of a deep socket that allows you to drop the case in with about half of it extending out the end (I stuffed some aluminum foil inside a couple of them to make this work), squeeze the trigger on the drill and put the neck of the case in the flame.

    I had a drill. Had a socket set, bought some temperature-sensitive lacquer (just to be on the safe side) and experimented with a single $12 bernzomatic torch head. Found numbers/times for .223, .308, .338 LM that seemed reasonable, and have since done hundreds of cases to suit my needs. Torch them, THEN resize. YMMV.

    What I've found is SD definitely has tightened up as neck tension has become more uniform - which, when you consider the mechanism of internal ballistics, might be the LEAST factor affecting velocity/SD but it isn't - I can actually FEEL the difference in seating bullets.

    Dig around on youtube for a while looking for "annealing cases".

    Have fun.
     

    sic65stang

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Dec 29, 2010
    253
    1
    35
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Re: Annealing

    Normbal, if you dont mind what are the times you use for your .223 and .308? I use an ultrasonic cleaner for my cleaning, should this be done prior to that and then dumped from the heat into the ultrasonic? Does the rapid change in temperature seem to make any difference in the process or should they cool at room temp? The way I am understanding it is this should be the first process in my reloading steps after deprime?

    Alos on another note, I notice people talking about bumping the shoulder back. I am just getting into precision .308, but with my .223 I would clean, trim, neck size only, chamfer, prime, load, and seat. How are you "bumping" the neck, how do you know its enough, whats recommended, and what is the purpose?
     

    Rookie

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 10, 2004
    955
    399
    D/FW
    Re: Annealing

    Since I got my Giraud, I anneal after every firing of 243, 308 and 300WM. Takes no time at all so why not?
     

    GreatGonzo

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 1, 2009
    351
    7
    43
    Montague, Texas, USA
    Re: Annealing

    I anneal by hand every time. My reasoning is that I am very bad at keeping track of how many times brass has been fired. I am basically rotating 500 pieces of brass, but I never have more than 250 loaded at one time. The only way to keep neck tensions the same is to anneal and full length size every time. Takes about 15 minutes to do 100. It is definitely worth my time.
     

    MALLARD

    none
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jul 25, 2009
    824
    6
    36
    Mcdonalds
    Re: Annealing

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the miss conception </div></div> haha
     

    groovinpickle

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 11, 2010
    59
    0
    42
    Mississippi
    Re: Annealing

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: normbal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    I looked at several of the $400 (and up) annealing rigs then I found a sort of a tutorial on youtube where a guy used deep sockets on a drill. Easy enough.</div></div>
    Thanks for this post; I'll have to look into this method. I've got hundreds of .223 Rem Lapua cases that I use, but I'd like to be able to maintain them without shelling out for a Giraud.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Robert Murphy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alos on another note, I notice people talking about bumping the shoulder back. I am just getting into precision .308, but with my .223 I would clean, trim, neck size only, chamfer, prime, load, and seat. How are you "bumping" the <span style="font-weight: bold">shoulder</span>, how do you know its enough, whats recommended, and what is the purpose? </div></div>
    Made a correction to your post in <span style="font-weight: bold">bold</span> above.

    Bumping the shoulder is done by full-length sizing (or by using a special bump die) to reduce the headspace dimension. A fair number of people prefer to full-length size every time. The thinking is that by measuring and only sizing the case as much as necessary (bumping the shoulder .002", for example) you're getting consistency <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> long life from your brass.
     

    normbal

    CPT USA (ret)
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 18, 2006
    118
    9
    Silver Spring, MD
    www.scribd.com
    Re: Annealing

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Robert Murphy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Normbal, if you dont mind what are the times you use for your .223 and .308? I use an ultrasonic cleaner for my cleaning, should this be done prior to that and then dumped from the heat into the ultrasonic? Does the rapid change in temperature seem to make any difference in the process or should they cool at room temp? The way I am understanding it is this should be the first process in my reloading steps after deprime?

    Alos on another note, I notice people talking about bumping the shoulder back. I am just getting into precision .308, but with my .223 I would clean, trim, neck size only, chamfer, prime, load, and seat. How are you "bumping" the neck, how do you know its enough, whats recommended, and what is the purpose? </div></div>

    1 - Times I came up with using 650 degree tempilaq PAINT-on (the stick doesn't stick to clean brass) are as follows:

    .223: 6 seconds

    .308: 7 to 8 seconds.

    .338 LM: 9 to 10 seconds.

    In my head I'm doing 1 mississippi 2 mississippi or just tapping my foot (I do some jazz drumming as a hobby), but having TIMED it against the Tempilaq, I watch for the color band going down the body of the case and know where it should stop at the right time so I have two data points to go by.

    2 - sequence I follow is: deprive, clean brass (using the stainless steel pin/wet system right now and highly recommend it, I've never seen brass this clean), anneal, THEN full-length size it. I know it's right because I use a wilson (or Dillon) case gauge and adjust my press until I get the exact spec I'm looking for.

    THEN I do the primer pocket squaring, flash hole debarring, and trimming (I use a Giraud trimmer).

    Funny, I've read about a lot of people who do the anneal/sizing in reverse, sizing THEN annealing.

    I do it the first way as I find the brass won't fit in the Giraud trimmer case holder. Chambers okay, I can trim it on an older hand-cranked tool, but the dimensions have changed just enough it won't fit the Giraud unit.

    Rapid cooling doesn't affect annealing of brass. Steel, other metals/alloys, yes. Not brass. Dump it in a bucket. I set the cases in a garbage can lid and put the whole thing in the garage freezer when I'm done, long enough to cool.

    YMMV.
     

    normbal

    CPT USA (ret)
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 18, 2006
    118
    9
    Silver Spring, MD
    www.scribd.com
    Re: Annealing

    THIS video shows someone using deep sockets. Works great for me. I already had them, they work as a heat-sink (I stuffed some aluminum foil in the bottom of the socket to get the right depth and maximize contact to draw away excess heat).

    <object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kgD5D0Wzu-c"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kgD5D0Wzu-c" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
     

    jagged77

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 26, 2010
    904
    31
    England
    Re: Annealing

    I anneal by hand every 2 / 3 cycles. I use a metronome app to keep time!
     

    MitchAlsup

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 19, 2007
    1,654
    3
    Austin Texas
    Re: Annealing

    I am currently running an experiment on (lack of) annealing. Using a Neck only sizing most of the time regimen, I am at 30+ reload cycles on a single set of brass that has never been annealed (since they arrived in my posession). From a lot of 50, I have lost 2 cases from body cracks, no cases from neck cracks, and no cases from primer pockets. The load being shot is a high pressure long range loading with 47.8 gr Varget pushing 155 Scenars. The gun has a chamber that obturates the necks to 0.3445 which are then sized in two steps to 0.338 and then 0.332.
     

    cchurchi

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 1, 2012
    25
    1
    45
    Re: Annealing

    For some reason, my 8th addition Hornady reloading manual recomends annealing every 8th to 10th reload.
     

    427Cobra

    Lt. Colonel
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 24, 2005
    5,871
    255
    Sanger, TEXAS!
    Re: Annealing

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MALLARD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the miss conception </div></div> haha </div></div>

    I can't blame my iPhones auto correct on that one, all me.
     

    427Cobra

    Lt. Colonel
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 24, 2005
    5,871
    255
    Sanger, TEXAS!
    Re: Annealing

    imagexgy.jpg

    I got the wheel and plans from jmorris, I ordered a 12VDC motor from Grainger along with a .375 ID thrust bearing for the wheel, power supply will be either a computer power supply or a battery charger with reostat, I'm thinking about adding a second motor to turn the cases or a pulley system, my days of my Dewalt drill and socket are coming to a end.
     

    Leaddog

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Oct 15, 2009
    512
    1
    72
    Delaware
    Re: Annealing

    I used to chuck my brass in a drill and do them by hand with fairly good results. I have since gone with a Benchsource machine and never looked back. It's much faster, more precise, and gives me a consistent result every time.

    Clean first, anneal, then resize. I now anneal with every firing. ES/SD shows an improvement and on target vertical is tighter (600+ yards).
     

    cega

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 20, 2010
    503
    0
    60
    Maryland
    Re: Annealing

    Giraud annealer is awesome. Takes no time to set up or change the wheels to take different cases. Given that and how easy it is to drop the cases in and let it run while doing other things I'm annealing every other reloading on both 308 and 338LM brass (Lapua head stamp).