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Annealing

Drewdemon

Online Member
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 20, 2017
225
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Does it matter where in the case prep process annealing takes place? Considering moving it from step 2 to step 9 to see if it improves my numbers.

1. Deprime
2. Anneal
3. Lube
4. Resize
5. Mandrel
6. Trim
7. Lacquer
8. Wet Tumble/Dry

Peterson Brass (6.5CM)
Scenar-L 136G

SD's range from 10-15
Ex-Spread 40-60fps

Thanks
 
I believe the annealing must take place before any type of brass resizing. Annealing first will allow the brass to move more easily during sizing and be more inclined to maintain the new dimensions once the entire sizing process is complete. I can also imagine there could be some residual stress in the neck area after it has been worked in the sizing step and that a second annealing could help if you still have inconsistent bullet seating pressures.

I anneal first even before depriming and do not anneal a second time as I do see too much variation in my seating force. I use a Sinclair/Wilson Micro Seater die and a KM arbor press with a standard force pack/dial.

Would you be kind enough to explain step 7. Lacquer? Where are you applying the lacquer and what's its purpose?

Thanks

Chris
 
Allegedly one of the reasons to anneal is to keep the brass malleable so that it can stretch during fire and compress during sizing without stressing, therefore annealing before sizing would be way to go.
 
I believe the annealing must take place before any type of brass resizing. Annealing first will allow the brass to move more easily during sizing and be more inclined to maintain the new dimensions once the entire sizing process is complete. I can also imagine there could be some residual stress in the neck area after it has been worked in the sizing step and that a second annealing could help if you still have inconsistent bullet seating pressures.

I anneal first even before depriming and do not anneal a second time as I do see too much variation in my seating force. I use a Sinclair/Wilson Micro Seater die and a KM arbor press with a standard force pack/dial.

Would you be kind enough to explain step 7. Lacquer? Where are you applying the lacquer and what's its purpose?

Thanks

Chris
In the past i would wet tumble brass to clean and get the sizing lube off. I noticed they would not come out 100% clean. I watched an episode of 6.5 guys where they rinsed them in lacquer before tumbling and it worked great. 7. is really lacquer/rinse then wash.
 
When brass gets fired and worked it gets harder and develops stresses and wants to stay where it was and tries to go back to that prior location. So you anneal before sizing to soften and relieve the stresses so that the brass doesnt try to fight the sizing process.

Not that you cant anneal after sizing... whatever process you do be consistent in it and you will have consistent results, you just have to chase the measurements less when you anneal before due to less spring back.
 
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Correct, you anneal before resizing.
 
In the past i would wet tumble brass to clean and get the sizing lube off. I noticed they would not come out 100% clean. I watched an episode of 6.5 guys where they rinsed them in lacquer before tumbling and it worked great. 7. is really lacquer/rinse then wash.

That's lacquer THINNER...not lacquer.
 
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I’d argue that if you anneal your brass every or every other firing, it doesn’t matter... it should size like butter regardless.

1. Lube & FL Size/Deprime
2. Rotary Tumble
3. Oven/Dehumidifier Drying
4. Anneal
5. Check runout/measure/trim/etc...
5. Prime
6. Charge & Seat (USE BULLET LUBE)
 
Always anneal first IMO. As mentioned above, you can do it after but you would be chasing consistent measurements. For example, if you’ve set/locked your die after the first firing and next firing or two you don’t anneal before resizing, you’ll have different shoulder bump measurements on some, most, or all pieces of brass from the time you set/locked it.
 
From the AMP Annealing website:

When to anneal?
What is the correct sequence - anneal/resize or resize/anneal?
If annealing brass that has had multiple reloads or is unknown history, we would strongly recommend annealing first followed by resizing. This is because the harder the brass, the more likely it is to resist conforming the resizing die and "springing back".

Our settings target an annealed neck hardness consistent with virgin brass, (some cartridges are a little higher or lower). Because the process anneals both the neck and shoulder, die conformity will be correct when resizing. Note: we have found that the target annealed hardness is reached reliably regardless of the starting hardness i.e. it doesn't matter if it starts at 20% harder or even 70% harder, it will still come back to the same hardness.

If, as we recommend, annealing is done every reload, the brass is always soft enough in the neck and shoulder to resize accurately either before or after annealing. We have, however recorded consistently more uniform hardness test results by annealing beforeresizing, and we therefore recommend that sequence.
We find that the best results are obtained with this sequence:
  • De-prime - optional depending on your cleaning sequence)
  • Clean - tumble or ultrasonic etc. – again optional. Cleaning won’t affect annealing
  • Anneal
  • Lube - this is vital even with nitrided dies. (Imperial wax or spray such as Hornady One Shot) – note: Dry media graphite tends not to adhere well to annealed cases. We do not recommend its use.
  • Resize - after annealing, THE SIZING DIE MAY NEED TO BE ADJUSTED for both shoulder bump and neck OD to account for zero spring back. See FAQ 3, 5 and 6. De-priming can be done as part of the resizing process.
 
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In my experience the dimensions of the brass change slightly when annealed. This made some hard to chamber when I tried to anneal after sizing.
 
I can feel brass that needs annealing.
It feels springy and you notice your die needs adjusting because your brass isn’t sizing down enough.

I generally neck size 4 times then anneal and bump the shoulder back then repeat.
I’m lazy and that works well for me and my brass doesn’t get to the point where sizing becomes inconsistent.

If your full length sizing every time I wouldn’t go more than 3 firings without annealing though with a tight chamber and good dies you could go further.
 
Your base to shoulder measurement will grow each time you full length size if you are not annealing. Not by much but enough you can see it on your caliper.