Another precious metals investment advice thread

[91Eunozs]

OK, I consider myself a fairly savvy investor and have done pretty well in real estate (rentals and our personal homes...which usually become rentals), stocks, and even some dabbling in commodities/livestock.

Getting ready to sell some stock and buy some more precious metals but have never bought gold bullion outside the middle east/far east where the rules are a lot different...and a hell of a lot cheaper on the price over spot/commissions.

All the local places here near San Antonio I’ve checked into so far seem like they’re kind of a ripoff, and I’ve just started looking at the usual online sources. So far it looks like SD or JM bullion are my best bets (slightly better than Apmex), but even they’re ~$200 over spot for the stuff I’m looking at: 100 gram Swiss ‘combi’ bars and US mint Gold Eagles...1 oz. Canadian Maple leaf coins appear to be out of stock everywhere.

Is that price over spot reasonable for these times? Seems like a lot to me, but I’ve been out of this game awhile...and 1% (ish) commissions on other trades isn’t out of the ordinary, so maybe I’m just behind the times.

what say you all?

 

[Jscb1b]

Buy more ammo.

 

[chevy_man]

Buy more ammo.

This is the only reasonable choice. Lead and copper are more affordable and will give you greater joy.

 

[Texasflyer]

This is a site where guys talk about selling a valuable Rolex for electric equipment that is outdated a week after purchase.... you really want investment advice here? Most of what ive read is basically throw your money into a fire here.

 

[Texasflyer]

I think you should invest in dual citizenship in canada and then start main lining us some of those sweet sweet primers.... you could be a hero.

 

[Missalot]

Remember that coins and bullion are considered collectibles and are taxed at a higher capital gains rate. The commissions on real estate, art, and metals has always been a turnoff for me and I generally make metals/real estate plays through public companies that mine/manage them.

On a gun forum I follow, there are several guys buying and selling coins through the forum thus avoiding commissions (and taxes).

 

[W54/XM-388]

OK, I consider myself a fairly savvy investor and have done pretty well in real estate (rentals and our personal homes...which usually become rentals), stocks, and even some dabbling in commodities/livestock.

Getting ready to sell some stock and buy some more precious metals but have never bought gold bullion outside the middle east/far east where the rules are a lot different...and a hell of a lot cheaper on the price over spot/commissions.

All the local places here near San Antonio I’ve checked into so far seem like they’re kind of a ripoff, and I’ve just started looking at the usual online sources. So far it looks like SD or JM bullion are my best bets (slightly better than Apmex), but even they’re ~$200 over spot for the stuff I’m looking at: 100 gram Swiss ‘combi’ bars and US mint Gold Eagles...1 oz. Canadian Maple leaf coins appear to be out of stock everywhere.

Is that price over spot reasonable for these times? Seems like a lot to me, but I’ve been out of this game awhile...and 1% (ish) commissions on other trades isn’t out of the ordinary, so maybe I’m just behind the times.

what say you all?

Right now the margins between spot and physical are some of the highest in a decade.
If you are trying to "Invest" as in you want appreciation and being able to easily move in and out of stuff like stocks and commodities, then paper gold and paper silver are probably more your thing.

Physical stuff is more for either if you actually deal in that regularly, or if you want a store of wealth that can protect some of your current wealth through bad times, until things become good again.

If you buy physical now, you'll have to see things rise a lot before you'd be above break even trying to sell it again, unless you are well versed in things.

You might consider waiting for the next big stock market crash. Often you can get good deals on precious metals then as folks that got hit with a lot of margin calls have to sell off anything they can to cover the calls.

Also try buying just like 1 or 2 of whatever it is you are thinking of, then go try to sell it....

Minted legal tender coins from a major nation are usually pretty easy to sell & you get spot + a good bit of the markup.
Bars and other rounds and stuff often are much harder to sell quickly.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Mentally you have to separate "physical gold" from "paper gold"..... You are establishing spot gold prices using paper gold stats.... Stop comparing apples to oranges.
You have to decide "what it's worth" as far as paying a premium to get that physical gold in your hand. You are up against some big players with deep pockets who are buying up physical gold and taking possession of it....

Right there in your home state:

Texas Precious Metals Depository | Store Gold and Silver Bullion

texasdepository.com

 

[rjacobs]

Remember that coins and bullion are considered collectibles and are taxed at a higher capital gains rate. The commissions on real estate, art, and metals has always been a turnoff for me and I generally make metals/real estate plays through public companies that mine/manage them.

I have NEVER heard of this...

Unless you are buying "collectible" type coins i.e. numismatics... and even then your argument about them being collectibles is sketchy.

Ive been buying and selling silver and gold for a while and following it as well and never heard this.

Coins are currency... i.e. Gold Eagles, Silver Eagles, etc... do you pay capital gains tax if the value of the dollar goes up? no... Can you claim a loss if the value of the dollar goes down? No...

Now you start to get into rare and graded coins then MAYBE you have an argument on capital gains tax, but beyond that, never heard of it...

 

[rjacobs]

1-3% over spot is fairly typical in the physical market.

I know at one point last year Silver was like 5% over spot and you were waiting 8-12 weeks for delivery...

My go to's are either Eagles(silver or Gold) or 1+oz bars. Ive got a few 100gram(I think they are 100gram) bars that are segmented into 10 gram pieces for trading. I dont get caught up in this or that name brand bars that carry different premiums... because if you end up needing to dump it in a SHTF scenario nobody will care if you have a panda engraved on your bar. Plus with the various names you are paying spot plus a % premium where as the no-name bars you pay spot plus a normal % over. The cheaper the better allows you to stack more.

I always suggest people going and signing up for the-moneychanger.com nightly newsletter. He's a gold and silver guy and has been doing it a long time.

 

[KZP]

1-3% over spot is fairly typical in the physical market.

I know at one point last year Silver was like 5% over spot and you were waiting 8-12 weeks for delivery...

My go to's are either Eagles(silver or Gold) or 1+oz bars. Ive got a few 100gram(I think they are 100gram) bars that are segmented into 10 gram pieces for trading. I dont get caught up in this or that name brand bars that carry different premiums... because if you end up needing to dump it in a SHTF scenario nobody will care if you have a panda engraved on your bar. Plus with the various names you are paying spot plus a % premium where as the no-name bars you pay spot plus a normal % over. The cheaper the better allows you to stack more.

I always suggest people going and signing up for the-moneychanger.com nightly newsletter. He's a gold and silver guy and has been doing it a long time.

Right now I'm seeing silver eagles are ~35% over spot at bulk price of +100 coins per order. The 10oz bars aren't much lower.

 

[hollowoutadime]

At some point I may unload a monster box, just not sure how to ship at a reasonable cost..

 

[rjacobs]

Right now I'm seeing silver eagles are ~35% over spot at bulk price of +100 coins per order. The 10oz bars aren't much lower.

Hell no... I would never spend that much over spot for anything... you will NEVER GET IT BACK... like trading in a used car... They will sell it to you at 35% over all day long but come time to sell it will be the standard 3% over spot... I might be dumb but im not fucking stupid.

 

[davesa]

yes, premiums are inflated right now because supply is low... sort of like ammo - especially for coins from the mints ( US Eagles, Buffalos, Canadian Maple Leafs)

Silver Eagle premiums which used to be $3 are like $5.50 now, so I have held off
Gold Eagles premiums in my area used to by $50-75 over spot, or 4%-5% but lately they have been $100+

you have to ask yourself if now is the right time to be adding physical metals - like with ammo - better if you had done it in years past when prices were lower, and premiums too.

Will they be low again, who knows... you can time things a bit. If you had bought when gold dipped to $1680 about a month ago, your $100 premium would be back at todays prices of ~ 1780. Years back when gold jumped to $800, I thought I would wait until it went back down, then it was $1100, same thought, then $1400... now $1700. Throw a couple trillion more new $$ in there and it might be higher yet.

With the high gold prices, having a reputable dealer is important because the fakes have become so much better, the Chinese are producing some gold over cobalt fakes that weigh the correct amounts and look very real.

One thing checking in with the local dealer has taught me is that when it does dip, people go in and buy... routinely hear, had some... all gone now when I check the prices and see there has been a pull back. They are always willing to place an order for future deliver in 8+ weeks.

As people above mentioned, if it is for investment than physical is not that important. If it is to have on hand in case things get crazy, then you will not be selling it back when it goes up a few $$ -

 

[Mike_Honcho]

Right now I'm seeing silver eagles are ~35% over spot at bulk price of +100 coins per order. The 10oz bars aren't much lower.

Got into some pretty interesting articles and threads discussing the silver market and the current 'Silver Ends the Fed' meme that is running across the internet. Essentially JPM cornered silver long ago, effectively all silver trades within the JPM pool. Some believe that a GME style run on silver forces trades outside of that pool and real price discovery. Considering how metal prices are set / detached from reality, I have my doubts.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Got into some pretty interesting articles and threads discussing the silver market and the current 'Silver Ends the Fed' meme that is running across the internet. Essentially JPM cornered silver long ago, effectively all silver trades within the JPM pool. Some believe that a GME style run on silver forces trades outside of that pool and real price discovery. Considering how metal prices are set / detached from reality, I have my doubts.

Lots of interesting articles out there.....
If you can't hold it in your hand, it could all go away with a flip of the switch while you sleep tonight.... Paper gold and silver, Bitcoin, investments, pensions, social security, etc. Never hurts to hold some physical.

 

[91Eunozs]

Buy more ammo.

Well, yeah!

 

[91Eunozs]

This is a site where guys talk about selling a valuable Rolex for electric equipment that is outdated a week after purchase.... you really want investment advice here? Most of what ive read is basically throw your money into a fire here.

LOL

yeah, I take input from everywhere. I’ve been pleasantly surprised at the nuggets (get it? Lulz) of damn good advice I’ve found in oddball forums over the years though

 

[Jgunner]

Pb & Cu

 

[91Eunozs]

Right now the margins between spot and physical are some of the highest in a decade.
If you are trying to "Invest" as in you want appreciation and being able to easily move in and out of stuff like stocks and commodities, then paper gold and paper silver are probably more your thing.

Physical stuff is more for either if you actually deal in that regularly, or if you want a store of wealth that can protect some of your current wealth through bad times, until things become good again.

If you buy physical now, you'll have to see things rise a lot before you'd be above break even trying to sell it again, unless you are well versed in things.

You might consider waiting for the next big stock market crash. Often you can get good deals on precious metals then as folks that got hit with a lot of margin calls have to sell off anything they can to cover the calls.

Also try buying just like 1 or 2 of whatever it is you are thinking of, then go try to sell it....

Minted legal tender coins from a major nation are usually pretty easy to sell & you get spot + a good bit of the markup.
Bars and other rounds and stuff often are much harder to sell quickly.

Yup, have ~4% of my IRAs/401K as well as 10% of future contributions starting last month going into precious metals and mining funds. Only Earning ~3% on those vs 9% on the rest of my portfolio right now, but dramatically lowered my Q.

edit: and already have a healthy collection of precious metals and gems; almost all bought in Europe, the middle east or far east though. Have enough on hand to warrant additional security alarms on the house and safe, but not so much to need off site storage.

Sold a fair bit of gold back in 2011 at ~$1700/ounce when we lived in Germany...paid for my fun little German sports car memento of my time there. I know, I know...depreciating assets and all. But I only sold enough for the down payment before it was built and always dreamed of doing the Porsche factory delivery experience. Worth it to me...and I only sold some of the stuff I bought back in the 90s at ~$400/ounce when stationed in Kuwait

re: other ‘precious metals’ like copper, lead, and brass. Yeah, I’m probably not stacked as deep as some on this forum but I’ll bet I’m damn close. LOL

 

[rtB]

If you want to buy and sit on it, now is not a bad time. If you want to make a quick buck, maybe not. But one thing is for sure, Russia, China and a number of other countries are buying everything they can get their hands on. So read into that what you will.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

I've noticed that American Eagles in silver are suddenly a crap investment with spot plus 10-12 dollars being the norm. I looked at last years purchases and they were spot plus 3-5 dollars and in 2018 they were $1.50 less per ounce. Same thing with gold, spot plus is now 200 dollars or more and you get screwed $300 or more per ounce to sell gold.

I think you do better from a local coin and bullion store or even a pawn shop that sells gold and silver, especially where cash does the talking. Or invest in ammo and guns before they have background checks on anyone who dares to buy them.

It probably is a good idea to have assets that have value outside of banks and investment firms. Leftist hatred and envy requires the small minded socialists of the country to demand confiscation or wealth at some point. Owning your own home outright is a great idea until full tilt communism takes over and eliminates private property. Gold, silver, copper, lead and suitable jewels, watches and other valuable items that can be easily concealed from Joe Biden and his minions may be important soon.

Gun owners are a hair's breathe from being Jews in Democrat ran Germany of the 1930's and early 40's.