I want a quality leveling instrument and am willing to pay to get a top model. An electronic anti cant indicator that has 2x2, 3x3 and 4x4 models (I understand those represent tenths of a degree) intrigues me, but I have a 34mm tube. This 34mm tube really hampers me. I know USO has a nice picatinney mounted model, and the electronic cant indicator can also mount on the rail. However, I would prefer to mount it to the scope if possible. Input appreciated.
Rifle Scopes Anti cant devices?
- Thread starter Magnumdood
- Start date
Re: Anti cant devices?
Magnumdood,
David Tubss's Superior Shooting Systems has one for a 34mm tube. I will have to find the email, but I believe they are around $60.
They don't list them on the web site, you will need to give them a call.
There was a picture around here someplace with one mounted on a S&B, but I can't find it.
Magnumdood,
David Tubss's Superior Shooting Systems has one for a 34mm tube. I will have to find the email, but I believe they are around $60.
They don't list them on the web site, you will need to give them a call.
There was a picture around here someplace with one mounted on a S&B, but I can't find it.
Re: Anti cant devices?
Cool! Thanks. It's bound to be quality gear because David Tubb either designed it or at least allows his name to be associated with it.
Cool! Thanks. It's bound to be quality gear because David Tubb either designed it or at least allows his name to be associated with it.
Re: Anti cant devices?
If you go with the Deros grouse (which it sounds like you are), you may be interested in having the ability to easily attach and remove it from your scope. That way you can have one of each kind of DLG and choose the right one for your needs at the time. I will probably regret offering this to you but I happen to have an extra 34mm ARMS ring because its brother is mounted on the scope on the right, below:
PM me if you're interested.
If you go with the Deros grouse (which it sounds like you are), you may be interested in having the ability to easily attach and remove it from your scope. That way you can have one of each kind of DLG and choose the right one for your needs at the time. I will probably regret offering this to you but I happen to have an extra 34mm ARMS ring because its brother is mounted on the scope on the right, below:
PM me if you're interested.
Re: Anti cant devices?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LFOD1776</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you go with the Deros grouse (which it sounds like you are), you may be interested in having the ability to easily attach and remove it from your scope. That way you can have one of each kind of DLG and choose the right one for your needs at the time. I will probably regret offering this to you but I happen to have an extra 34mm ARMS ring because its brother is mounted on the scope on the right, below:
PM me if you're interested. </div></div>
Does Deros Grouse have a website? I googled it and didn't find one. Midway discontinued them along with some other retailers. Are they still being manufactured?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LFOD1776</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you go with the Deros grouse (which it sounds like you are), you may be interested in having the ability to easily attach and remove it from your scope. That way you can have one of each kind of DLG and choose the right one for your needs at the time. I will probably regret offering this to you but I happen to have an extra 34mm ARMS ring because its brother is mounted on the scope on the right, below:
PM me if you're interested. </div></div>
Does Deros Grouse have a website? I googled it and didn't find one. Midway discontinued them along with some other retailers. Are they still being manufactured?
Re: Anti cant devices?
Get them from Phoenix Tactical (Cheese). <span style="font-weight: bold">DO NOT</span> bother ordering them, or anything else for that matter, from Alamo Four Star.
Get them from Phoenix Tactical (Cheese). <span style="font-weight: bold">DO NOT</span> bother ordering them, or anything else for that matter, from Alamo Four Star.
Re: Anti cant devices?
One thing to remember about any anti-cant attachment is that none of them are accurate. All you need to realize this it to test the anti-cant levels sold for rifle attachment. I've tested the $30 dollars ones and up to the $150 dollar ones, none are "accurate". Will they keep you from making a shouldering or angle mistake...yes they will help.
This is a good short definition on levels;
http://www.starrett.com/download/338_p439_444.pdf
see top of page 2.
I use a Sarrett #98, 6 inch for mounting scopes and I keep a #130 with me for competitions.
One thing to remember about any anti-cant attachment is that none of them are accurate. All you need to realize this it to test the anti-cant levels sold for rifle attachment. I've tested the $30 dollars ones and up to the $150 dollar ones, none are "accurate". Will they keep you from making a shouldering or angle mistake...yes they will help.
This is a good short definition on levels;
http://www.starrett.com/download/338_p439_444.pdf
see top of page 2.
I use a Sarrett #98, 6 inch for mounting scopes and I keep a #130 with me for competitions.
Re: Anti cant devices?
I'm pretty sure I don't understand what you mean by "none of them are accurate". Do you mean they're not properly calibrated, or that people don't know how to read them?
Also I assume you're only talking about bubble levels. What about electronic levels?
I'm pretty sure I don't understand what you mean by "none of them are accurate". Do you mean they're not properly calibrated, or that people don't know how to read them?
Also I assume you're only talking about bubble levels. What about electronic levels?
Re: Anti cant devices?
LFOD,
It would take several pages to get into specifics of precise levels. The link I gave should give anyone a glimpse of what is entailed.
The sensitivity of a level is defined as the change of angle or gradient required to move the bubble by a set distance (usually 2mm). If the vial has graduated divisions then the sensitivity refers to the angle or gradient change required to move the bubble by one of these divisions (often spaced at 2mm).
The sensitivity can be defined as an angle or a gradient.
As an angle, the standard units are degrees(°), minutes(') and seconds(“). 1 degree = 60 minutes and 1minute = 60seconds. (1° = 60' and 1' = 60").
As a gradient the standard units are mm/m (millimetres per metre), although sometimes inches/10 inches or a simple number gradient is used. For example a gradient of 1mm/m is the same as 0.01"/10 inches which is the same as 1:1000.
For all spirit levels the sensitivity specification is determined by the sensitivity of the vials that are used. The sensitivity is determined by the radius of curvature of the vials which the bubble moves across. Even though it cannot always be seen, all spirit level vials are curved. The principal of operation is that the bubble will move to the highest point of the radius as gravity acts on the liquid inside the vial.
The sensitivity is directly related to the radius of curvature of the vial; the longer the radius, the more sensitive the vial will be; the shorter the radius, the coarser the vial will be.
In order to determine which sensitivity is best for a particular application, it is first necessary to decide how level the product needs to be. Another way of looking at this is to consider what is the maximum angle off-level that the product will still work correctly.
Let’s say for this example that the product needs to be level within 0.1° (or 6’). The next assumption we need to make is how accurately the user can centre the bubble between the divisions on the vial. We would normally assume that this is possible to within 0.5mm although in some applications it may be more or less than this. Based on these figures, we need a vial that will give at least 0.5mm bubble movement for a 0.1° (6’) change in angle. This corresponds to 0.4° (24’) for a 2mm bubble movement, so we would say that we need a vial with a sensitivity of 24minutes per 2mm bubble movement.
Electronic or laser have a larger problem with calibration, even if you spend upwards to $400 for a unit. There are electronic digital water levels but even with those if the electronics get off they are another "return to factory" calibration problem.
LFOD,
It would take several pages to get into specifics of precise levels. The link I gave should give anyone a glimpse of what is entailed.
The sensitivity of a level is defined as the change of angle or gradient required to move the bubble by a set distance (usually 2mm). If the vial has graduated divisions then the sensitivity refers to the angle or gradient change required to move the bubble by one of these divisions (often spaced at 2mm).
The sensitivity can be defined as an angle or a gradient.
As an angle, the standard units are degrees(°), minutes(') and seconds(“). 1 degree = 60 minutes and 1minute = 60seconds. (1° = 60' and 1' = 60").
As a gradient the standard units are mm/m (millimetres per metre), although sometimes inches/10 inches or a simple number gradient is used. For example a gradient of 1mm/m is the same as 0.01"/10 inches which is the same as 1:1000.
For all spirit levels the sensitivity specification is determined by the sensitivity of the vials that are used. The sensitivity is determined by the radius of curvature of the vials which the bubble moves across. Even though it cannot always be seen, all spirit level vials are curved. The principal of operation is that the bubble will move to the highest point of the radius as gravity acts on the liquid inside the vial.
The sensitivity is directly related to the radius of curvature of the vial; the longer the radius, the more sensitive the vial will be; the shorter the radius, the coarser the vial will be.
In order to determine which sensitivity is best for a particular application, it is first necessary to decide how level the product needs to be. Another way of looking at this is to consider what is the maximum angle off-level that the product will still work correctly.
Let’s say for this example that the product needs to be level within 0.1° (or 6’). The next assumption we need to make is how accurately the user can centre the bubble between the divisions on the vial. We would normally assume that this is possible to within 0.5mm although in some applications it may be more or less than this. Based on these figures, we need a vial that will give at least 0.5mm bubble movement for a 0.1° (6’) change in angle. This corresponds to 0.4° (24’) for a 2mm bubble movement, so we would say that we need a vial with a sensitivity of 24minutes per 2mm bubble movement.
Electronic or laser have a larger problem with calibration, even if you spend upwards to $400 for a unit. There are electronic digital water levels but even with those if the electronics get off they are another "return to factory" calibration problem.
Re: Anti cant devices?
With a .308 at 1000 yards, you'd need about 5 degrees of cant to throw you off 1 MOA.
A 2degree cant is, to me, very noticeable.
So, I don't worry too much about cant, and I haven't invested any money in solving a problem which as far as I'm concerned is not a serious problem.
Others are welcome to, though. The economy is in a recession, and I think spending money on shooting gear is a good way to stimulate it.
With a .308 at 1000 yards, you'd need about 5 degrees of cant to throw you off 1 MOA.
A 2degree cant is, to me, very noticeable.
So, I don't worry too much about cant, and I haven't invested any money in solving a problem which as far as I'm concerned is not a serious problem.
Others are welcome to, though. The economy is in a recession, and I think spending money on shooting gear is a good way to stimulate it.
Re: Anti cant devices?
That all being said, get a spirit level ACD and use it as a guide and be done with it. When shooting on and/or across uneven terrain, or at a target that lacks vertical or horizontal reference points, its nice to have a simple, battery free device to keep you from making a gross hold error.
That all being said, get a spirit level ACD and use it as a guide and be done with it. When shooting on and/or across uneven terrain, or at a target that lacks vertical or horizontal reference points, its nice to have a simple, battery free device to keep you from making a gross hold error.
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