Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

cysoto

cysoto

Gone Shooting
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 24, 2010
22
0
Denver, CO
www.shooterready.us
#1
I am seriously considering purchasing a Savage F/TR in .308 that I have recently found online. The price is right ($700 for a rifle that has shot about 200 rounds) and I like the caliber.

My only concern is that the twist on this rifle is a 1 in 12 (as opposed to the more popular 1 in 10). I believe that this rifle will handle bullets up to 175gr though I am not certain.

Is there a benefit to a 1 in 12 twist barrel that I am overlooking?
 
#6
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

1:12 is fine you wont have any issues unless perhaps you start shooting the real heavy stuff.

quoted from 6mmbr.com referring to .308 twists rates:

"A 1:10" twist rate will let you shoot the popular medium and heavy 30-caliber bullets up to the 210-grainers from Berger and Sierra (provided your barrel delivers enough velocity for the heavy bullets). A ten-twist can also work well with the lighter projectiles. John Whidden, who won the recent U.S. Palma Team Trials, has had great success shooting 155gr Bergers with a Broughton 10-twist 5C barrel. A 1:11" twist, found on many factory rifles, is a good compromise. Palma competitors using the Sierra or Lapua 155s have favored 1:12" or 1:13" twist rates, with the theory being that a slower twist rate may offer better velocity since there is less friction in the barrel. A 1:13" twist is fine for deer hunters who prefer a 150gr-class bullet moving 2850-2900 fps."
 
#8
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

My (apparently "unpopular") 1:12 will put 175gr on 12" steel at 888m (971y) with great consistency. And this is with a "stock" rifle from the factory and factory ammo.

You'd be GTG.


Also, drop the "what's popular" bullshit ASAP and figure out what works for you and your requirements. Welcome to the Hide.
 
#9
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

1/12 will stabalize bullets up to 185 grains.

In a 308 Win why shoot heavier than that?

I have a APA built 308 Win that was custom throated for the 155.5 Bergers and it is a hammer!! 1/12 twist

If I did it all over again, I would do it exactly the same
 
#10
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1:12 is fine you wont have any issues unless perhaps you start shooting the real heavy stuff.

</div></div>

Like I said, my AIAW will handle the 208 AMAX consistently out to 1200 yards. Bottom line is you don't know until you try it. Those guidelines are there to help, but by no mean written in stone. Moutainmarine has tried his stock Remy with a 1:12" twist on the 208 AMAX without any issues.
 
#11
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

I personally shot 190 VLDs that shot better in a 1:12 (6r) than my other rifle that is 1:11.25(5r). I personally never seen an issue with .308 and twist rates. Now for the 6mm stuff I know twist rates come into play and personally I have seen amax "explode" right out of the barrel and at 300-600yds at several matches because of bullet weight to twist rates and velocities issues. Side note (Which a hornady rep said was due to the thin jackets of the Amax being pushed past 3300fps, but that the newer amax had a thicker jacket that resolved this issue.) Kind of crazy because you almost get a shotgun pattern on the 1000yd target when pulling targets for those guys.
Those savage F-class rifles are great rifles by the way
 
#12
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

just ordered a barrel direct from a barrel manufacturer and he advised against anything but the 1:10. said he was personally tired of messing with all the others because he couldnt find another twist rate that he liked better than the 1:10, although they still list and will make other twist rates if thats what you want.

he also offered info that he supplies barrels for different government agencies and they have all now moved to 1:10 twist rates on the 308. FWIW...
 
#13
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

I would disagree with arbitrarily going with 1:10 twist. Instead, I suggest thinking about what weight bullet you want to shoot. Ideally, you should have a barrel twist rate which is just enough to stabilize the bullet you are shooting. Too slow of a twist and you loss stability, too fast and you loss accuracy.

Take a look at this website:
http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/caliber_twist_rates.htm

A 1:12 308win is ideal for bullets from 140 to 190grain. A 1:10 is ideal for bullets from 180 to 250grains. Of course these numbers are not written in stone, and others can argue about specifics.

The vast majority of 308win bolt-action shooters use either 155gr, 168gr or 175 gr bullets...ideal for 1:12 twist barrel. So unless you are going to shoot heavy (e.g. greater than 190gr) then there isn't a need for 1:10 twist.

Short barrels, suppressors, and subsonic rounds add additional variables...but isn't something most shooters need to worry about.
 
#16
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

FN SPR stock barrel has a 1:12. I was kinda worried and expected to swap the barrel fairly soon, but my concern was unfounded. Fires 155s 168s and 175s very well without any issues. Others are starting to apreciate these rifles more and more and the twist hasn't seemed to sway anyone off. Not sure if there is any "benefit" but I havnt experienced detraction.
I personally have yet to try anything larger.
 
#18
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

1:12 is good to go

Honestly, If im going to shoot above 190gr in a .308 win, I would rather push those pills out of something that at least gives them a faster speed.

Yeh ok the heavies might have good BC's but to take the most advantage of those heavies, I would want the combination of a high velocity and BC... reduced lag time and better ballistics is a win win.
 
#20
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

The 1 in 10 twist dates back to the days of the 30-40 Krag that shot 220 grain lead roundnose bullets. Subsequent US rifles retained the the 1-10 twist because that was the tooling they had to make barrels with. The 1-10 is not detrimental to lighter bullets for battlefield accuracy so there was no need to invest in different tooling. Factory rifles also used the 1-10 for everything .30 cal for the same reason. If you check with any bullet maker, they will provide you with recommended twist rates for their bullets. Generally, the 1-12 twist is best suited for bullets in the 165 - 175 grain range at .308 Win velocities. YMMV.
 
#21
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1:12 is fine you wont have any issues unless perhaps you start shooting the real heavy stuff.

</div></div>

Like I said, my AIAW will handle the 208 AMAX consistently out to 1200 yards. Bottom line is you don't know until you try it. Those guidelines are there to help, but by no mean written in stone. Moutainmarine has tried his stock Remy with a 1:12" twist on the 208 AMAX without any issues. </div></div>

A 1:12 with a shorter barrel (say 16 inches) might push a 208 to 2250 fps. At 0 degrees F, that is a 1.32 Miller stability factor.

With a 175 Sierra, you might get 2450 fps from a 16 inch barrel. That is a 1.34 stability factor.

So 1:12 should work with a 208 AMAX and a 175 Sierra most of the time, and if you are from the school of thought to use the least twist possible, then that would work for you. If you are from the school of thought to use the most twist possible to increase terminal effects with certain bullets, then I have a 1:4 twist barrel on order I will be testing.
 
#22
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

Unless you are constrained to shoot F T/R, I'd skip the .308 for LR.

Maybe I fly in the face of popular wisdom, but I've never really considered the .308 to be an adequate chambering for shooting much beyond 800yd.

The Palma 155 thing is an artifice that was built around a NATO used-to-be Ball Ammunition cartridge load. It no longer has any current relevance to anything, and is, in my opinion, only marginal as a competition cartridge at extreme Palma distances.

For out at 1000yd and thereabouts, I'd much rather be shooting a .260 or a .30-'06, and I suspect that if Palma shooters could, they would too.

There was a time when you could shoot .30-'06 in Palma, but some folks decided it wasn't currently relevant, and absolutely <span style="font-style: italic">had</span> to be replaced with the current Western military chambering.

Fancy that.

Wonder how they'd like to be shooting 62gr 5.56 at 1Kyd? At least it could have some defensible current relevance.

Greg
 
#24
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would disagree with arbitrarily going with 1:10 twist. Instead, I suggest thinking about what weight bullet you want to shoot. Ideally, you should have a barrel twist rate which is just enough to stabilize the bullet you are shooting. Too slow of a twist and you loss stability, too fast and you loss accuracy.

Take a look at this website:
http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/caliber_twist_rates.htm

A 1:12 308win is ideal for bullets from 140 to 190grain. A 1:10 is ideal for bullets from 180 to 250grains. Of course these numbers are not written in stone, and others can argue about specifics.

The vast majority of 308win bolt-action shooters use either 155gr, 168gr or 175 gr bullets...ideal for 1:12 twist barrel. So unless you are going to shoot heavy (e.g. greater than 190gr) then there isn't a need for 1:10 twist.

Short barrels, suppressors, and subsonic rounds add additional variables...but isn't something most shooters need to worry about.
</div></div>

Nice post, VKC, and thanks for the link.
 
#26
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There was a time when you could shoot .30-'06 in Palma, but some folks decided it wasn't currently relevant, and absolutely <span style="font-style: italic">had</span> to be replaced with the current Western military chambering.

Fancy that.

Wonder how they'd like to be shooting 62gr 5.56 at 1Kyd? At least it could have some defensible current relevance.

Greg </div></div>

Greg, how can you say a .308 is not a currently relevant western military chambering? The resurgence in 7.62 NATO battle rifles of late would suggest otherwise.
 
#27
Re: Any benefits to a 1 in 12 twist .308 ?

I think vman & Greg Langelius summarized my additional thoughts. Personally, I find the 190grs VLD about as heavy as I want to load for 308win. Anything heavier, to get ideal velocities, 30-06 would be better, and magnums would be more ideal. So 1 in 12" twist is more than adequate.

Plus Berger 190gr VLD with BC of 0.57, which you can use for both target shooting and hunting is pretty good.

jhnmdahl, your welcome, glad I you found link useful.

For a target shooting specific round, Sierra 175gr Matchkings at BC 0.485 to 0.505 have become very popular round for competition precision shooting.

In case you haven't seen this thread: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2004610#Post2004610

With all that, 1 in 12" for 308win sounds pretty good to me.
 
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