Any cattle ranchers??

[JJMoody]

Background: So, I’m not a rancher, farmer or really anything involving cattle other than eating the end product these days. I grew up in and around rodeo, then competed a couple more years after college. I’m not a total moron around livestock, but I’m well aware I basically don’t know shit when it comes to raising cattle.
The area I live in still has a few smaller acreages where the Old Guard is still raising a few cows. One of them is about a half mile from my place. Two days ago, my wife drives in fast and says “that guy on the corner with the cows-looks like they’re having trouble catching a cow that is having a tough time giving birth”.
I know the place And had actually pulled a breach birth calf for them a couple years ago.(another story). Long story short, I get down there, rope the cow, get her stopped and pull the calf, that was at the time alive but had a swollen tongue and a few other signs of a tough birth. Not to mention being about 95-100lbs( a big F’ing calf and a small heifer)
Now, the other folks I’ve been around would actually assist the calf in getting fed pretty quickly (swollen tongue on a calf won’t allow it to suckle) I’ve seen em get the calf tubed down the throat and the necessaries be poured directly into the stomach and the calf might end up being bottle-fed, but it typically lives.

These guys ( one 75 year old guy that don’t get around too good, his 50 ish daughter and some other really scroungy guy 50 ish) didn’t do a damn thing. No feeding tubes, no help whatsoever. I get the natural thing, but there’s a point to lend the assist after a really hard birth. They told me that they lose half the calves they pull. I guess I’m becoming sentimental as I get older, but it freaking pissed me off. The little pasture is surrounded by new homes and apartments filled with Californians and other retards, so they get calls and people stopping in to tell them somethings wrong all the time. They’re a bit jaded on that end.
My questions for anyone who actually knows cows are:
1)Do you lend an assist when the calf can’t get up and get its own milk?
2)What percentage (ish) calves do you have to pull, and of them, how many survive?
3)Would you change “ old school “ tactics if the city was essentially across the road from your place( people, cell phones etc... watching every thing you do)
4)Am I just being a pussy for getting pissed off about this? ( watching the calf slowly die over the course of about 20 hours)?
Someone help me out here.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

I have bottled feed them. That said only about half of them ended up living more than a week. Don't know what was wrong with them. I just put the dead bodies in an empty pasture and let nature take care of it. They're gone in a couple of days. The ones that have lived are great, they still come to you when they see you and are friendly.

 

[Partsunavailable]

Tube, bottle feed, stall the mother and hold the calf on the udder. We do it all. Pull quite a few, over 75 percent live. They are pretty pricey to let die.

 

[JJMoody]

Some shirttail relatives had a medium sized dairy that we spent a bit of time at growing up. They did the same, or fed them to the hogs. Big damn hogs. This situation is probably not out of the ordinary, but dammit, I’m getting soft about this stuff. It might just seem like they were damn near negligent because “town” is starting to surround their place. I got a little bit attached to the little fella. Probably why it’s never a good idea to name something that’s sole purpose in life is to be eaten.

 

[Winningdog]

Bottle calves need colostrum in their first feeding.

 

[JJMoody]

Tube, bottle feed, stall the mother and hold the calf on the udder. We do it all. Pull quite a few, over 75 percent live. They are pretty pricey to let die.

See, that’s what I’m used to seeing, hearing and being around. I was raised to be a good steward over whatever we were in charge of. Especially if your livelihood depends on it. Put in the effort, then you can look yourself in the mirror. I offered to help with whatever they needed and was met with complete indifference as to whether it lived or died. Granted, I was dressed like a freaking golfer when I helped out, which probably didn’t help... and the last time I roped and pulled a calf for them I was in flip-flops...my credibility may have been suspect

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Tube, bottle feed, stall the mother and hold the calf on the udder. We do it all. Pull quite a few, over 75 percent live. They are pretty pricey to let die.

This spring I only got $.80 per pound for the ones I brought to auction. I was pretty bummed. I needed them off the land though so I had no choice. Hopefully get more when the others are ready in the fall.

 

[JJMoody]

Bottle calves need colostrum in their first feeding.

Yeah, just didn’t know how to spell that, so I left that out lol!

 

[ggmanning]

A bottle fed calf is my current main bull. I can walk up to the big fella and scratch his head. Likes his back scratched with a rake. Nice having an ultra calm people friendly bull.....makes the whole herd easy to deal with on loading day. Kids had a great time feeding and playing with him when he was a little calf. You can really cut down on calf pulls and hard births by choosing your bulls wisely. The ones that throw a slightly lower birth weight calf are what you want. Sometimes you can't avoid it even then with first time birth heifers.

 

[JJMoody]

That’s another part of their problem- they leave the bull with the cows year-round heifers are all over the board in size and seems like they’re always calving. The bull seems to throw large calves too IMO. I usually don’t gripe about this stuff or inject my opinion in someone else’s business like I am, but simple observation combined with the fact I drive by there several times a day gets me to scratching my head a bit. I also can’t stand to see this way of life getting hammered by encroachment of the citidiots coupled with what might be a substandard animal care. Fuel to the fire so to speak.

 

[JbBooks]

My dad told me something when I was younger that has stuck with me, he said if you don’t like the way someone is doing something, go do it yourself, or don’t worry about it.

 

[JJMoody]

There’s a lot to be said for that kind of wisdom. I don’t like the way they’re doing it and at the same time trying to be on their team with it. Part of me is saying “mind your own damn business”, other part of me is trying to figure out how to “do the right thing” by the animal and the guy raising the cattle without being a cattle rustler. I was pretty Gung-Ho about doing practically all the work for them or with them. I work from home and I’m not afraid to get dirty(which by this time they had that figured out). I was thinking they just didn’t have the help, so I was pretty adamant about being the help they needed. They just didn’t shrugged their shoulders and kinda blew me off while thanking me for the help earlier ( sort of).

 

[Shooter McGavin]

@JJMoody

I had a guy who leased land next to me and his cattle would get out all the time. I would call him and he wouldn't give a shit. One neighbor, an older lady, would call the Sheriff. The deputies would show up and honk their horn at the cattle. Funny as shit as the cattle didn't give a shit. I would end up walking the cattle back into their pasture when I saw them out. The guy has since passed and the new guy that leases the land fixed the fence. In time things will change, but not much you can do in the meantime.

 

[Boon20]

What kind of breeds are they dealing with?
Might be worth changing if they have to pull that many.

 

[diggler1833]

To answer reading OP first:

1) Yes, and I keep colostrum and milk powder on hand...but usually force the calf up to nurse on momma while she's in the head gate. Otherwise I'll milk momma and tube feed calf. My wife always gives them an injection of antibiotics as well
2) Way under a half a percentage point. Haven't had to pull anything in over five years, and I drop ~ 85 calves on the ground a year. A lot goes into this, but the obvious wrong points were already mentioned. My calf mortality rate is about 4% once you factor in the dummies that fall into the creek and drown. I lose about 1 newborn calf per year to either stillbirth or other issue. Ive already had this happen to me for this year, so hopefully not again. Finally had to euthanize the calf as it was obviously suffering and not improving after 96 hours.
3) Not sure about "old school " definition, but each lost calf is essentially a ~$600 loss for us. Bottle feeding a calf until its old enough to be weaned takes about $300 and frigging hours of work with no days off. Some guys cut losses depending
on costs. My wife is a Veterinarian and I've got three business degrees myself, so we don't accept losses...a lot depends on the cost you pay for cattle and what you get at market for your cattle...guys who raise junk (yeah I said it) can take the loss easier. But they pay a fraction of what I do for bulls etc. Even last year when the market was at its worst my heifers averaged 683lbs at 9 months and sold for 1.36/lb, steers went 721lbs and sold for 1.45 at OKC.
4) You aren't being a pussy, but it isn't your cattle. They still have it better than cattle did 50 years ago. Also, with a shitty operation it is very likely that their mortality rate outweighs the effort and money needed to keep a calf alive.

 

[JJMoody]

Trying to answer a few of the last posts...
I tried to eliminate a few parts of the story that would paint the owners as derelicts raising cows that look like a cross between red angus/Hereford/corriente/chihuahua-cross. Tried to leave out any “hero” parts of the story, cause I don’t trust guys who are the hero in their own story, so...
Open field, no chutes, no actual tools of the trade except one crappy old rope and one worse looking rope that looked like it’d been used as a tow strap most of its life and been whittled down to about 15’. An old guy and his daughter both on 4wheelers.
I appreciate the feedback and advice. I Put a call in to some friends who run a pretty good sized spread and herd (they were branding this week and didn’t call back til about an hour ago, so I threw this out on here). I’m getting a tool kit and a a few pointers (training) together for this type of thing with a few things to make a much stronger “suggestion” for the inevitable next time this happens. Maybe next time I won’t feel like I’m standing around watching nothing happen.

 

[JJMoody]

A lot of folks who still have cows here are older and I always lend a hand when cows or horses are out any way I can. Roads that used to be country roads are now almost highways and no one wants to see the outcome of that combination. The owners are generally thankful and we go about our day without a big to-do.
the “ old school “ definition is probably just a nicer way to say “hands off” approach or “I’m not going to do anything about a situation- if it lives or dies, it is what it is....” kind of stuff.

 

[JJMoody]

.... and the next change to take place on his little field is likely to be a subdivision or apartment complex, so I’m not looking forward to waiting out that change.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

.... and the next change to take place on his little field is likely to be a subdivision or apartment complex, so I’m not looking forward to waiting out that change.

I got that here too. The guy that actually owns the land is a lawyer who bought up over 1000 acres. His plan in the next 5 years is to develop all of it. The FM roads aren't able to handle that kind of traffic so, we are always going to the planning commission meetings and city meetings to protest new neighbor hoods. But we won't win forever.

 

[SmartDonkey]

Well if the calf hasn't died yet- and they don't care if it does- go get it.

A swollen face from a hard pull isn't uncommon and it will generally go down fast. But what is working against it is the fact that its mom is a heifer that just went through a hard pull- those 2 things generally add up to a less than motherly response. The sooner they nurse the better- but if its not real cold outside they can go longer than you'd think and be ok. They don't get as good of a start and are more prone to sickness.

 

[Ranchhand]

We have just over 50 head. We do what we have to to save as many as we can. My wife or I will sit up all night if we have to if a calf looks bad.
I mean shit, we're raising beef. If the calf dies we've failed.

 

[diggler1833]

Trying to answer a few of the last posts...
I tried to eliminate a few parts of the story that would paint the owners as derelicts raising cows that look like a cross between red angus/Hereford/corriente/chihuahua-cross. Tried to leave out any “hero” parts of the story, cause I don’t trust guys who are the hero in their own story, so...
Open field, no chutes, no actual tools of the trade except one crappy old rope and one worse looking rope that looked like it’d been used as a tow strap most of its life and been whittled down to about 15’. An old guy and his daughter both on 4wheelers.
I appreciate the feedback and advice. I Put a call in to some friends who run a pretty good sized spread and herd (they were branding this week and didn’t call back til about an hour ago, so I threw this out on here). I’m getting a tool kit and a a few pointers (training) together for this type of thing with a few things to make a much stronger “suggestion” for the inevitable next time this happens. Maybe next time I won’t feel like I’m standing around watching nothing happen.

Anybody who knows anything about cattle already knew what this guy's operation looked like just by your first post, without you having to mention particulars.

There is still money in buying the mangiest cross you can find, putting a mangy ass bull on it, raising a calf out of the mana for maybe 120 days, and then selling mama and the calf (as "weaned") at the market. It takes little money to get into this, and profit margins are enough to make it by...for now.

I personally love "low birth weight" as advertised bulls. No shit...its a frigging 1,400lb bull...everything that comes out of it is going to be small. No mineral for the cows, barely any feed...yep...50lb calves all day long, and 300lb calves at market.

 

[myronman3]

all i have to say on any of this is regarding #3. city folks living nearby.

i would not do ONE FUCKING THING different because of that factor. they can go fuck themselves. if you live your life trying to keep other people happy, you are doomed to fail. fuck that noise.

regarding #4. minding your own business is never the wrong answer.....unless someone is getting hurt. someone getting hurt, i’ll stick my neck out. other than that...not my problem.