Any home based FFL's here wanna help me get started?

[louu]

Hi guys,
I think I'm going to open a home based FFL. I have a couple of questions to start and will definitely have more later.

1. My biggest concern right now is what do you do if your not home and a firearm comes and needs to be signed for?
Most of the time this won't be a problem because usually someone is home at my house and I understand that all the people that could potentially sign for my guns has to be investigated just like myself by the BATF and this won't be a problem. I know this is not something that we should talk about on the internet so feel free to PM me or we can talk on the phone like normal people use to do lol. Customer service is really important to me and I don't want to be like some of the home based FFL's and do a half ass job.

2. I'm sure I'll find out the answer to this question later form the ATF but... New Jersey is obviously a 10 round state. Is it legal for a home based FFL in NJ to get standard capacity mags and block them to 10 rounds before I sell/transfer them?

3. What's the difference between 1 and 7? What's concerned gunsmithing vs manufacturing firearms? Is pinning muzzle brakes and collapsible stocks gunsmithing? Is assembling a whole AR from parts manufacturing or is that just gunsmithing as well? I'm not going to machine billet into lowers, to me that would be manufacturing something but to the ATF I don't know.

4. Is it true that my homeowners insurance (USAA) will just upgrade my insurance a little and be all I need?

Thanks in advance everyone

 

[Simonsza1]

Make Money With Guns

RocketFFL is an online resource developed by a firearms attorney, to help make the seemingly complicated ATF rules easy to understand.

rocketffl.com

 

[AllenOne1]

Make Money With Guns

RocketFFL is an online resource developed by a firearms attorney, to help make the seemingly complicated ATF rules easy to understand.

rocketffl.com

This ^^^ It's a great place to get you started and the cost is reasonable.

 

[Animal357]

With supply at an all time low, you won't get inventory. Even with good supply, tiny dealers don't get good discounts on popular guns. Guns are often cheaper retail online than what your wholesaler will sell to you for. You can get OK discounts on many accessories and good discounts on suppressors if you are a SOT which cost $500 a year.

 

[Supersubes]

Most guns are sent signature required. Nobody home, no delivery. ATF didn't care at all about who lives with me.

Manufacturing is when you make a firearm not capable of being fired, into one that can be. Installing a barrel on a bare receiver for example. 07 is for a manufacturer, 01 for transfers/gunsmithing. Completing an AR would be manufacturing. What do you want to do with your license? Im an 01, but will switch to an 07 when I renew next time.

I mostly do transfers now since inventory is gone. Im an SOT as well, which is a little better for inventory and margins as mentioned above, but the annual is fairly costly($500), so you better actually do some of that business if you plan to go that route.

My state is super friendly, so it was quite easy. ATF is easy to deal with. Rocket ffl is a good resource. Id expect Jersey to have a shitty department of justice(or whatever its called), like California does. That aganecy, if they must be involved, will probably be most of your headache.

 

[Animal357]

Keep in mind ATF will only issue a license for a location that is zoned for retail. You will only get it If your house is located in a retail zoning.

 

[louu]

With supply at an all time low, you won't get inventory. Even with good supply, tiny dealers don't get good discounts on popular guns. Guns are often cheaper retail online than what your wholesaler will sell to you for. You can get OK discounts on many accessories and good discounts on suppressors if you are a SOT which cost $500 a year.

What is SOT? I'm guessing since I don't know it's probably not legal in New Jersey lol. Suppressors are a no go here.

I'm not planning on stocking much I really just want to do transfers because I know it's almost impossible to compete with the internet. I never buy anything at gun shops they are a total rip off around here and they charge $100 for a transfer. I deal with a home based FFL but it's 45 min away. He's awesome but super busy so some of my friends can't get through to him. I want to do the same thing out where I am. I'm tempted to ask him for advice but I don't want him to think I'm stepping on his toes.

 

[louu]

Most guns are sent signature required. Nobody home, no delivery. ATF didn't care at all about who lives with me.

Manufacturing is when you make a firearm not capable of being fired, into one that can be. Installing a barrel on a bare receiver for example. 07 is for a manufacturer, 01 for transfers/gunsmithing. Completing an AR would be manufacturing. What do you want to do with your license? Im an 01, but will switch to an 07 when I renew next time.

I mostly do transfers now since inventory is gone. Im an SOT as well, which is a little better for inventory and margins as mentioned above, but the annual is fairly costly($500), so you better actually do some of that business if you plan to go that route.

My state is super friendly, so it was quite easy. ATF is easy to deal with. Rocket ffl is a good resource. Id expect Jersey to have a shitty department of justice(or whatever its called), like California does. That aganecy, if they must be involved, will probably be most of your headache.

Thanks bud, Im thinking I should just go 07 right off the bat because I do help out a lot of people around here with assembling stuff.

I'm sure your right on about jersey being difficult to deal with, nothing is easy or friendly when it comes to the government here lol.

 

[louu]

Keep in mind ATF will only issue a license for a location that is zoned for retail. You will only get it If your house is located in a retail zoning.

That's the first thing I'm going to get going on my next day off. Their use to be a hair salon in the house we bought so I'm guessing that would help

 

[Animal357]

Thanks bud, Im thinking I should just go 07 right off the bat because I do help out a lot of people around here with assembling stuff.

I'm sure your right on about jersey being difficult to deal with, nothing is easy or friendly when it comes to the government here lol.

Like retail, your location will need to be zoned for manufacturing if you want an 07

 

[JMGlasgow]

Keep in mind ATF will only issue a license for a location that is zoned for retail. You will only get it If your house is located in a retail zoning.

Wrong.

I know of at least 2 ffl dealers in my town that are not anywhere near zoned for retail.

 

[Animal357]

Wrong.

I know of at least 2 ffl dealers in my town that are not anywhere near zoned for retail.

Wrong. The city won’t issue a permit if the property is not zoned correctly and ATF won’t issue without a permit

 

[JMGlasgow]

Prove it. One house I know of is in the middle of a neighborhood where the houses are over 100 years old. I know this because I lived there briefly. It is in no way zoned commercial. Another is out in the county and it is also clearly a residence in a housing development.

 

[BullGear]

You may be able to get your FFL, but your state and/or county could prevent you from operating by not permitting a business or sales and use tax certificate.

If I'm not mistaken, the ATF requires a business license before approving your FFL.

Some states are easy, others are almost impossible. Cehck with your state and local governments before applying for your FFL.

 

[Alan Warner]

You may be able to get your FFL, but your state and/or county could prevent you from operating by not permitting a business or sales and use tax certificate.

If I'm not mistaken, the ATF requires a business license before approving your FFL.

Some states are easy, others are almost impossible. Cehck with your state and local governments before applying for your FFL.

Each state has their own rules pertaining to home bus. Some allow, others not. Investigate those first.

 

[GH41]

Investigate both county and town business licenses, a tax ID # and GL insurance while you are at it. When you are done investigating you will find being a legitimate business isn't easy without sales volume. In this political environment I'll guaranty someone will turn you in. If you aren't legit it will get messy fast.

 

[Animal357]

Prove it. One house I know of is in the middle of a neighborhood where the houses are over 100 years old. I know this because I lived there briefly. It is in no way zoned commercial. Another is out in the county and it is also clearly a residence in a housing development.

Stop being stupid, just stop.

 

[BullGear]

Prove it. One house I know of is in the middle of a neighborhood where the houses are over 100 years old. I know this because I lived there briefly. It is in no way zoned commercial. Another is out in the county and it is also clearly a residence in a housing development.

Were you born that way or did you have an accident. We all said to check with state and local governments to see what is possible.

These laws have changed over the years, it's possible they might have been grandfathered by the state or local government. It is also possible those FFLs were granted before the ATF changed their mandate. Furthermore, It's also possible that these folks are operating an illegal business within a residential property.

But don't say you are the definitive answer to the process of applying for and receiving an FFL from the ATF.

 

[346ci]

Passing zoning requirements is your first step.

Not a good time to start with inventory so low, the little guys are not getting nothing.

 

[jinxx4ever]

Wrong. The city won’t issue a permit if the property is not zoned correctly and ATF won’t issue without a permit

depends on what state ur in. Half the ffl's in this town are in folks basements. One guy lives at the lake. We don't need city issued permits here

 

[_Windrider_]

Make Money With Guns

RocketFFL is an online resource developed by a firearms attorney, to help make the seemingly complicated ATF rules easy to understand.

rocketffl.com

I did rocketffl. I was actually the first one to sign up and complete the whole thing. It was easy and pain free. Now I just need to finish up and get the paperwork submitted

 

[JMGlasgow]

Animal and Bullgear piling on....K, whatever. One FFL has had his license just over a year, had the ATF at his residence for an interview during the application process and is also a lawyer. I highly doubt he's operating outside of the law. I'm not the one that made a blanket statement like Bullgear did. I simply said he was wrong and provided examples.

So far, nobody has proven my statement to be false. So who's stupid now?

 

[jinxx4ever]

Passing zoning requirements is your first step.

Not a good time to start with inventory so low, the little guys are not getting nothing.

i've always sold ammo. I have to buy it 3rd party , mark it up and sell it. No problem. Someone is always needing it. In fact that's why i started selling it in the first place, The dealers around here just sit with empty shelves if they can't get it from their jobber. I buy it off the internet whereever and resell it , no problem. Just getting my ffl , once agian, most of what i will sell will b 3rd party. In this climate, if u have it, doesn't matter price, folks will buy it. I've sold at gun shows, i know this for a fact. In fact i probably make a higher markup than the locals.

 

[_Windrider_]

Animal and Bullgear piling on....K, whatever. One FFL has had his license just over a year, had the ATF at his residence for an interview during the application process and is also a lawyer. I highly doubt he's operating outside of the law. I'm not the one that made a blanket statement like Bullgear did. I simply said he was wrong and provided examples.

So far, nobody has proven my statement to be false. So who's stupid now?

I’m less than 2000 feet from 3 schools. ATF already told me it won’t be an issue

 

[BullGear]

Animal and Bullgear piling on....K, whatever. One FFL has had his license just over a year, had the ATF at his residence for an interview during the application process and is also a lawyer. I highly doubt he's operating outside of the law. I'm not the one that made a blanket statement like Bullgear did. I simply said he was wrong and provided examples.

So far, nobody has proven my statement to be false. So who's stupid now?

Here we go again.

 

[Supersubes]

It’s been said already, but home based businesses are allowed in most places, including inside city limits. Some cities expressly prohibit firearms related businesses though. Counties tend to be be easier going. Usually this is an easy question to get answered in my experience. They want your tax dollars after all. You need to have your business licensing finished before the ATF interview. Like Bullgear said, some FFls can be operating under old rules, and those localities will no longer license new firearms businesses. I know of an FFl in a california city where that cant transfer anything. He may only take a firearm in for repair etc.

 

[MikeRizz]

As already mentioned, checking your town/city/state zoning is priority one. I formed a LLC but it's not required ( you can be a DBA ). Inventory is not existent right now. It's insane.

To answer one of your questions, if you are not home the carriers will attempt the delivery the next day. They will not leave a firearm without a signature. You can sign up for delivery notifications so you will know the day before delivery attempt.

 

[Animal357]

depends on what state ur in. Half the ffl's in this town are in folks basements. One guy lives at the lake. We don't need city issued permits here

As long the city/town allows retail or manufacturing at the location, whether they issue permits or not, you can get a FFL. If the town/city does not allow retail or manufacturing, ATF will NOT issue a FFL

 

[Animal357]

Animal and Bullgear piling on....K, whatever. One FFL has had his license just over a year, had the ATF at his residence for an interview during the application process and is also a lawyer. I highly doubt he's operating outside of the law. I'm not the one that made a blanket statement like Bullgear did. I simply said he was wrong and provided examples.

So far, nobody has proven my statement to be false. So who's stupid now?

You keep proving that it's YOU who is stupid. Just because its a residence, does not mean retail is not allowed. You can only get a FFL in a location that allows retail. Does it have to be dumbed down even further for you???????

 

[AManWearingAHat]

Perhaps a dumb question, but Ill ask anyway since Im sure others have wondered.

Is it possible to eat the fees and get set up as an FFL and an SOT and just... not do any business (assuming you're complying with regulations where required)? Essentially pay the tax on our rights to make owning the fun stuff easier. 500 dollars a year for an SOT sounds a lot better than 50K+ to own one of the aging population of grandfathered machineguns. Or will the ATF just nope you and pull / not issue your license?

 

[Supersubes]

Perhaps a dumb question, but Ill ask anyway since Im sure others have wondered.

Is it possible to eat the fees and get set up as an FFL and an SOT and just... not do any business (assuming you're complying with regulations where required)? Essentially pay the tax on our rights cautious to make owning the fun stuff easier. 500 dollars a year for an SOT sounds a lot better than 50K+ to own one of the aging population of grandfathered machineguns. Or will the ATF just nope you and pull / not issue your license?

No. Its needs to be a for profit enterprise. Now you could suck at it and make no money, and not be penalized, but that needs to be the intent.

 

[AManWearingAHat]

No. Its needs to be a for profit enterprise. Now you could suck at it and make no money, and not be penalized, but that needs to be the intent.

I was afraid that was the answer. Thanks. They really don't want us to have any fun do they?

 

[BullGear]

I was afraid that was the answer. Thanks. They really don't want us to have any fun do they?

If you can find a few friends who are willing to buy from you, say at a cost plus 10%, you have made a proper effort in your business.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Animaldumbass357

Wrong again. I just spoke with a friend who has gone through the process very recently in Colorado, and it doesn't even have to be an area that allows retail as long as a person isn't selling. Believe it or not it can be for personal use.

Keep believing what you want. I've now given 3 examples. I'm done with this thread.

 

[Animal357]

Animaldumbass357

Wrong again. I just spoke with a friend who has gone through the process very recently in Colorado, and it doesn't even have to be an area that allows retail as long as a person isn't selling. Believe it or not it can be for personal use.

Keep believing what you want. I've now given 3 examples. I'm done with this thread.

BULLSHIT. ATF will not issue a FFL for personal use. They require a business. You can use it personally but only if you also have a business.

Be gone, we will all be better for it

 

[louu]

Passing zoning requirements is your first step.

Not a good time to start with inventory so low, the little guys are not getting nothing.

It’s been said already, but home based businesses are allowed in most places, including inside city limits. Some cities expressly prohibit firearms related businesses though. Counties tend to be be easier going. Usually this is an easy question to get answered in my experience. They want your tax dollars after all. You need to have your business licensing finished before the ATF interview. Like Bullgear said, some FFls can be operating under old rules, and those localities will no longer license new firearms businesses. I know of an FFl in a california city where that cant transfer anything. He may only take a firearm in for repair etc.

As already mentioned, checking your town/city/state zoning is priority one. I formed a LLC but it's not required ( you can be a DBA ). Inventory is not existent right now. It's insane.

To answer one of your questions, if you are not home the carriers will attempt the delivery the next day. They will not leave a firearm without a signature. You can sign up for delivery notifications so you will know the day before delivery attempt.

Thanks for the replies guys. That's definitely going to be my first step on my first day off witch I think is going to be March 8th. I live in the middle of nowhere, have a shooting range in the back yard, no where near any cities. There use to be a hair salon in this house so it must have been in some kind of business approved zone, there's also a body shop 1/4 mile away. From what I hear the hair salon that was here was a really happinin spot because everyone knows my house. The body shop has a great reputation to.

I just found out about ups and FedEx can schedule deliveries so that's something that's going to help.

 

[1500varmint]

Here's a NJ Gun Forum thread from last year where a guy chronicles his journey to getting his FFL. He was going to do it in a rented space instead of home, but there's goo detail/information that's probably relevant:

Getting My FFL - My Journey

So, after much thought and some serious discussions with my wife and some friends, I have decided to pursue getting my FFL. I will be located in northern Bergen County. This will be a side hustle so hours will be on a by appointment basis and I will try and accommodate clients as best I can. I wi...

www.njgunforums.com

OP should join the forum and ask questions there.

There are NJ FFL's who are sponsors (at least one who works from home) so they may be able to provide some NJ-specific advice.

The laws here are ABSURD, so hopefully OP isn't looking for this to be a quick or inexpensive process.

 

[BullGear]

Animaldumbass357

Wrong again. I just spoke with a friend who has gone through the process very recently in Colorado, and it doesn't even have to be an area that allows retail as long as a person isn't selling. Believe it or not it can be for personal use.

Keep believing what you want. I've now given 3 examples. I'm done with this thread.

I'd find more trustworthy friends. The ATF will not sign off on an FFL who is not in the business. YEARS AGO, you could get an FFL for personal use, but that's gone by the wayside more than 20 years ago.

Just curious, do you have an FFL? Maybe those of use who are giving you this information has or has had an FFL and know the process that is demanded by the ATF.

 

[Animal357]

Given that you live in the middle of nowhere, there may not be any zoning. If that's the case, it would be helpful to go to the town/city/county government and get a letter from them stating that there are no zoning laws that restricts your location from retail or manufacturing uses and give that to the ATF.

 

[E-Tool]

Ha my county doesn’t have zoning, it was shot down at the vote.

 

[Supersubes]

I was afraid that was the answer. Thanks. They really don't want us to have any fun do they?

Given that you live in the middle of nowhere, there may not be any zoning. If that's the case, it would be helpful to go to the town/city/county government and get a letter from them stating that there are no zoning laws that restricts your location from retail or manufacturing uses and give that to the ATF.

I think that will be covered in his licensing. If he’s able to obtain his state and county licenses, he’s good. For my state, they just wanted my money. My county wanted to know what I was actually doing (retail gun, manufacture gun, manufacturer ammo, retail ammo etc). The county held on to my license until I brought them my FFL, and my ATF examiner had already spoken to them to confirm that the county application was handled.

 

[zeroz]

Zoned retail/ manufacturing and home business are two different things. Plenty of places are zoned residential but allow home businesses. Some of those allow "limited retail and manufacturing", some don't at all. Local laws run the gamut from wide open to full ban and its absolutely city/ county dependent. There is no blanket set in stone answer that is true for everywhere. Find out form your local spot. You guys that have a "definitive" answer based on YOUR experience are funny.

OP, good chance you can find answers on your county/ city website in the zoning tab. Find your zoning designation and read what's allowed as far as home business. If there is question, call zoning. Move forward (or not) from there.

 

[Animal357]

Zoned retail/ manufacturing and home business are two different things. Plenty of places are zoned residential but allow home businesses. Some of those allow "limited retail and manufacturing", some don't at all. Local laws run the gamut from wide open to full ban and its absolutely city/ county dependent. There is no blanket set in stone answer that is true for everywhere. Find out form your local spot. You guys that have a "definitive" answer based on YOUR experience are funny.

OP, good chance you can find answers on your county/ city website in the zoning tab. Find your zoning designation and read what's allowed as far as home business. If there is question, call zoning. Move forward (or not) from there.

Here it is, simple as it gets>>>>> You can only get a FFL if you are allowed to retail or manufacture at your location (depending on which FFL you want)

 

[_Windrider_]

Here it is, simple as it gets>>>>> You can only get a FFL if you are allowed to retail or manufacture at your location (depending on which FFL you want)

Well not exactly. It’s more like you have to show intend to run a business and generate profit. Not get it so you can just buy yourself shit. I’m not having any retail space. I’m simply going to be doing transfers and holding inventory and storage for a friend who doesn’t have the space but needs to expand a bit. Mostly NFA stuff.

 

[Supersubes]

Well not exactly. It’s more like you have to show intend to run a business and generate profit. Not get it so you can just buy yourself shit. I’m not having any retail space. I’m simply going to be doing transfers and holding inventory and storage for a friend who doesn’t have the space but needs to expand a bit. Mostly NFA stuff.

I think he was just trying to boil down the whole zoning argument.

 

[louu]

Here's a NJ Gun Forum thread from last year where a guy chronicles his journey to getting his FFL. He was going to do it in a rented space instead of home, but there's goo detail/information that's probably relevant:

Getting My FFL - My Journey

So, after much thought and some serious discussions with my wife and some friends, I have decided to pursue getting my FFL. I will be located in northern Bergen County. This will be a side hustle so hours will be on a by appointment basis and I will try and accommodate clients as best I can. I wi...

www.njgunforums.com

OP should join the forum and ask questions there.

There are NJ FFL's who are sponsors (at least one who works from home) so they may be able to provide some NJ-specific advice.

The laws here are ABSURD, so hopefully OP isn't looking for this to be a quick or inexpensive process.

Good find thanks man. I'm a member on that forum to but stay far away from that trian wreck there is so much misinformation on there it's hard to keep up. I was one of the OG's so to speak when that forum first started and now it's nothing like it used to be. If you even mention the word competition or match on there everyone panics. When it first started it was all about the local matches and was great for some good ol fashioned ribbing. Now you get banned for joking with your friends that you actually know witch is why there's almost none of us is left

 

[louu]

Given that you live in the middle of nowhere, there may not be any zoning. If that's the case, it would be helpful to go to the town/city/county government and get a letter from them stating that there are no zoning laws that restricts your location from retail or manufacturing uses and give that to the ATF.

This is kinda what I'm thinking as well because there a guy on my road that obviously is running an auto repair shop out of his garage but doesn't have a sign out front and they never break his balls. I really don't want to just call on the phone I'm planning on going to the zoning board in person in a couple of weeks when I'm off and getting started there.

 

[CoryT]

If you go 07, don’t forget ITAR. Yes, I know you won’t be exporting. They don’t care.

 

[_Windrider_]

If you go 07, don’t forget ITAR. Yes, I know you won’t be exporting. They don’t care.

If I’m not mistaken that’s only if you become an SOT

 

[Cynical]

Prove it. One house I know of is in the middle of a neighborhood where the houses are over 100 years old. I know this because I lived there briefly. It is in no way zoned commercial. Another is out in the county and it is also clearly a residence in a housing development.

At least as of two years ago, and through the current, the ATF IOI assigned to an application file calls the County/City/Parish/Borough to verify if zoning regulations permit the type of business applied for, at your location. If not, ATF will not issue your FFL.

I.e., if you apply from your residence address for an 01 FFL, ATF verifies that retail sales are permissible in your locale (many places permit such home-based businesses) before scheduling the on-site interview. Same for 07; if manufacturing is not allowed in your license location, the FFL will not be issued.

In terms of "prove it," I am giving you first-hand information both as an 07 FFL as well as the attorney for a mid-sized municipality who gets these calls from ATF routinely -- I don't get the calls, the City does, and I hear about it every time someone complains because our zoning rules do not allow manufacturing in residential zoned areas. It all depends on what your local government's rules are for home-based businesses (could be zoning, or could be other regulations).