I just started 3 months ago and have been to 76 classes so far.I have lost 18 pounds and have sweated my brains out. Next Saturday training with Kru mark Dellagrotte. Its going to be awesome.
- Thread starter Jimmym40a2
- Start date
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
Mark is a badass trainer. And its muay thai lol. Not a cocktail.
what kind of structuring do you guys follow. In other words what is your average daily routine there. And I have done a few years of it, a great tool and awesome exercise, if your after an even harder workout go to an mma workout for the conditioning even if you don't want to fight.
Mark is a badass trainer. And its muay thai lol. Not a cocktail.
what kind of structuring do you guys follow. In other words what is your average daily routine there. And I have done a few years of it, a great tool and awesome exercise, if your after an even harder workout go to an mma workout for the conditioning even if you don't want to fight.
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
i dont train it...but i do watch it...its really the only true form of prize fighting left since the UFC and its glorified bouncers ruined the fight game with their silly nonsense
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zKBDnifKo48"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zKBDnifKo48" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
i dont train it...but i do watch it...its really the only true form of prize fighting left since the UFC and its glorified bouncers ruined the fight game with their silly nonsense
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zKBDnifKo48"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zKBDnifKo48" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
I've been to a few classes and your right its a hell of a cardio workout. Rich Cleminti is a friend of mine and i have been over and grappled with some of his bigger guys and will say that MMA style fighting is also a good workout.
I've been to a few classes and your right its a hell of a cardio workout. Rich Cleminti is a friend of mine and i have been over and grappled with some of his bigger guys and will say that MMA style fighting is also a good workout.
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont train it...but i do watch it...its really the only true form of prize fighting left since the UFC and its glorified bouncers ruined the fight game with their silly nonsense
</div></div>
I agree 100% , Dana White is the new Don King
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont train it...but i do watch it...its really the only true form of prize fighting left since the UFC and its glorified bouncers ruined the fight game with their silly nonsense
</div></div>
I agree 100% , Dana White is the new Don King
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
that was probably the worst video I seen yet........wtf!
don't get me wrong, Maui Thai is the shit!
that was probably the worst video I seen yet........wtf!
don't get me wrong, Maui Thai is the shit!
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
I study and train UFC.
I study and train UFC.
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been to a few classes and your right its a hell of a cardio workout. Rich Cleminti is a friend of mine and i have been over and grappled with some of his bigger guys and will say that MMA style fighting is also a good workout.
</div></div>
Go to a class, and ask them to do take down and takedown defense shark drills, youll thank me later
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been to a few classes and your right its a hell of a cardio workout. Rich Cleminti is a friend of mine and i have been over and grappled with some of his bigger guys and will say that MMA style fighting is also a good workout.
</div></div>
Go to a class, and ask them to do take down and takedown defense shark drills, youll thank me later
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
I trained it for a couple years.
I took a MMA fight, threw 8 punches landed 6, no chances to kick, he was a wrestler, kept shooting. I ended up winning by rear naked choke in the 1st round. BJJ is a necessary beast.
I trained it for a couple years.
I took a MMA fight, threw 8 punches landed 6, no chances to kick, he was a wrestler, kept shooting. I ended up winning by rear naked choke in the 1st round. BJJ is a necessary beast.
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont train it...but i do watch it...its really the only true form of prize fighting left since the UFC and its glorified bouncers ruined the fight game with their silly nonsense
</div></div>
I agree 100% , Dana White is the new Don King </div></div>
Strong words there about the man that's kept MMA alive. What makes the two of you feel the way you do about MMA / Dana White?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont train it...but i do watch it...its really the only true form of prize fighting left since the UFC and its glorified bouncers ruined the fight game with their silly nonsense
</div></div>
I agree 100% , Dana White is the new Don King </div></div>
Strong words there about the man that's kept MMA alive. What makes the two of you feel the way you do about MMA / Dana White?
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont train it...but i do watch it...its really the only true form of prize fighting left since the UFC and its glorified bouncers ruined the fight game with their silly nonsense
</div></div>
I agree 100% , Dana White is the new Don King </div></div>
Strong words there about the man that's kept MMA alive. What makes the two of you feel the way you do about MMA / Dana White?
</div></div>
Because the fights are getting more and more selective , getting way over hyped over rematches , watching alot of them you can see some fighters sandbagging. I persona;ly dont like Dana White's attitude , he struts around and presents himself like a bad ass because he is the boss , Id love to see him pop off at the mouth and belittle a fighter only to have that guy crush his face.
the UFC (not all MMA) is getting like pro football , i wish it would go back to the way it was 15 years ago when guys would fight 2-3 fights a night rather than 2-3 fights a year
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont train it...but i do watch it...its really the only true form of prize fighting left since the UFC and its glorified bouncers ruined the fight game with their silly nonsense
</div></div>
I agree 100% , Dana White is the new Don King </div></div>
Strong words there about the man that's kept MMA alive. What makes the two of you feel the way you do about MMA / Dana White?
</div></div>
Because the fights are getting more and more selective , getting way over hyped over rematches , watching alot of them you can see some fighters sandbagging. I persona;ly dont like Dana White's attitude , he struts around and presents himself like a bad ass because he is the boss , Id love to see him pop off at the mouth and belittle a fighter only to have that guy crush his face.
the UFC (not all MMA) is getting like pro football , i wish it would go back to the way it was 15 years ago when guys would fight 2-3 fights a night rather than 2-3 fights a year
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
I agree. It was more interesting 10-15 year ago. It was also illegal and on the verge of disappearing. Dana didn't change it for fun. The changed were made, were made to appease the Nevada State Athletic Commission.
Dana White is extremely abrasive. He also gets the job done. Comparing him to Don King is ludicrous. The UFC doesn't pretect fighters. They promote fights that the fans want to see. If they were protecting champions, we wouldn't be seeing Diaz, Shields, or Overeem, in the UFC.
I agree. It was more interesting 10-15 year ago. It was also illegal and on the verge of disappearing. Dana didn't change it for fun. The changed were made, were made to appease the Nevada State Athletic Commission.
Dana White is extremely abrasive. He also gets the job done. Comparing him to Don King is ludicrous. The UFC doesn't pretect fighters. They promote fights that the fans want to see. If they were protecting champions, we wouldn't be seeing Diaz, Shields, or Overeem, in the UFC.
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont train it...but i do watch it...its really the only true form of prize fighting left since the UFC and its glorified bouncers ruined the fight game with their silly nonsense
</div></div>
I agree 100% , Dana White is the new Don King </div></div>
Strong words there about the man that's kept MMA alive. What makes the two of you feel the way you do about MMA / Dana White?
</div></div>
Have you watched a UFC fight lately? The skill level is complete shit..they look like bouncer with little training running backwards as they pretend to strike...it's getting worse and worse
Then they hire people like lesnar who makes MMA look like even a bigger joke...then GSP has turned into a karate point sparring champion who is too afraid to take risk cause Dana fires you if you lose...
if you want to call in mixed martial arts Dana should really bring in more guys who know at least 1 martial art...not the padded record glorified bouncers they have now
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont train it...but i do watch it...its really the only true form of prize fighting left since the UFC and its glorified bouncers ruined the fight game with their silly nonsense
</div></div>
I agree 100% , Dana White is the new Don King </div></div>
Strong words there about the man that's kept MMA alive. What makes the two of you feel the way you do about MMA / Dana White?
</div></div>
Have you watched a UFC fight lately? The skill level is complete shit..they look like bouncer with little training running backwards as they pretend to strike...it's getting worse and worse
Then they hire people like lesnar who makes MMA look like even a bigger joke...then GSP has turned into a karate point sparring champion who is too afraid to take risk cause Dana fires you if you lose...
if you want to call in mixed martial arts Dana should really bring in more guys who know at least 1 martial art...not the padded record glorified bouncers they have now
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree. It was more interesting 10-15 year ago. It was also illegal and on the verge of disappearing. Dana didn't change it for fun. The changed were made, were made to appease the Nevada State Athletic Commission.
Dana White is extremely abrasive. He also gets the job done. Comparing him to Don King is ludicrous. The UFC doesn't pretect fighters. They promote fights that the fans want to see. If they were protecting champions, we wouldn't be seeing Diaz, Shields, or Overeem, in the UFC. </div></div>
Bwahahahaha they dont protect fighters? Have you ever seen a Anderson silva fight where he fought someone who wasn't a washed up has been, or a flat out nobody?
Dana protects his guys furiously to protect the UFC brand...there is no other argument here...those are simply the facts
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree. It was more interesting 10-15 year ago. It was also illegal and on the verge of disappearing. Dana didn't change it for fun. The changed were made, were made to appease the Nevada State Athletic Commission.
Dana White is extremely abrasive. He also gets the job done. Comparing him to Don King is ludicrous. The UFC doesn't pretect fighters. They promote fights that the fans want to see. If they were protecting champions, we wouldn't be seeing Diaz, Shields, or Overeem, in the UFC. </div></div>
Bwahahahaha they dont protect fighters? Have you ever seen a Anderson silva fight where he fought someone who wasn't a washed up has been, or a flat out nobody?
Dana protects his guys furiously to protect the UFC brand...there is no other argument here...those are simply the facts
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Have you ever seen a Anderson silva fight where he fought someone who wasn't a washed up has been, or a flat out nobody? </div></div>
Yes. I saw Anderson Silva fight Rich Franklin, twice. I saw him fight Dan Henderson. Dana offered to let him fight Hendo again on this December's card and Silva turned it down. They tried to get GSP to fight him, and GSP won't move up. I saw him fight Forrest. I saw him destroy James Irvin. Lastly I saw Chael pound on him for awhile before getting tapped. The list goes on and on my friend. I don't see how you can say they are protecting him! Seriously, who else would you rather see him fight?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Have you ever seen a Anderson silva fight where he fought someone who wasn't a washed up has been, or a flat out nobody? </div></div>
Yes. I saw Anderson Silva fight Rich Franklin, twice. I saw him fight Dan Henderson. Dana offered to let him fight Hendo again on this December's card and Silva turned it down. They tried to get GSP to fight him, and GSP won't move up. I saw him fight Forrest. I saw him destroy James Irvin. Lastly I saw Chael pound on him for awhile before getting tapped. The list goes on and on my friend. I don't see how you can say they are protecting him! Seriously, who else would you rather see him fight?
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Have you ever seen a Anderson silva fight where he fought someone who wasn't a washed up has been, or a flat out nobody? </div></div>
Yes. I saw Anderson Silva fight Rich Franklin, twice. I saw him fight Dan Henderson. Dana offered to let him fight Hendo again on this December's card and Silva turned it down. They tried to get GSP to fight him, and GSP won't move up. I saw him fight Forrest. I saw him destroy James Irvin. Lastly I saw Chael pound on him for awhile before getting tapped. The list goes on and on my friend. I don't see how you can say they are protecting him! Seriously, who else would you rather see him fight? </div></div>
Again he hasn't fought anyone...all of those guys are has beens or flat out nobodies....why would you even want to see GSP vs silva? would be one of the most boring fights ever...silva running around showboating, and GSP running backwards jabbing trying to keep his title as the UFC point sparring champion so he can give another apology for a horrible boring fight...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Have you ever seen a Anderson silva fight where he fought someone who wasn't a washed up has been, or a flat out nobody? </div></div>
Yes. I saw Anderson Silva fight Rich Franklin, twice. I saw him fight Dan Henderson. Dana offered to let him fight Hendo again on this December's card and Silva turned it down. They tried to get GSP to fight him, and GSP won't move up. I saw him fight Forrest. I saw him destroy James Irvin. Lastly I saw Chael pound on him for awhile before getting tapped. The list goes on and on my friend. I don't see how you can say they are protecting him! Seriously, who else would you rather see him fight? </div></div>
Again he hasn't fought anyone...all of those guys are has beens or flat out nobodies....why would you even want to see GSP vs silva? would be one of the most boring fights ever...silva running around showboating, and GSP running backwards jabbing trying to keep his title as the UFC point sparring champion so he can give another apology for a horrible boring fight...
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> why would you even want to see GSP vs silva? would be one of the most boring fights ever...silva running around showboating, and GSP running backwards jabbing trying to keep his title as the UFC point sparring champion so he can give another apology for a horrible boring fight...</div></div>
LOL!! Now that's funny!
But you can't be serious calling Dan Henderson a "has been"....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> why would you even want to see GSP vs silva? would be one of the most boring fights ever...silva running around showboating, and GSP running backwards jabbing trying to keep his title as the UFC point sparring champion so he can give another apology for a horrible boring fight...</div></div>
LOL!! Now that's funny!
But you can't be serious calling Dan Henderson a "has been"....
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
For the people in this thread that are calling gsp and A.S. show boaters and sparring points winners. Have you ever put on gear and fought someone with skill? I will admit gsp doesnt finish like he should. Hell hes a 200lb guy in a ring with 170lb fighters. The other thing is hes doing what he does best. Exerts little to no energy, and barely gets hurt. If you cant put a fighter in front of him that will challenge him because of his superb stand up and ground skills, why would he take a chance of getting knocked out like he did with that little dirty jersey devil he fought years ago that knocked him out on a whim. Same with silvia, his talents are far greater than people give him credit for. You all should go on youtube and check out where normal people fight trained fighters, its like the people in hooters giving advice, until you fight dont act like you know it. Its way way harder than it looks.
For the people in this thread that are calling gsp and A.S. show boaters and sparring points winners. Have you ever put on gear and fought someone with skill? I will admit gsp doesnt finish like he should. Hell hes a 200lb guy in a ring with 170lb fighters. The other thing is hes doing what he does best. Exerts little to no energy, and barely gets hurt. If you cant put a fighter in front of him that will challenge him because of his superb stand up and ground skills, why would he take a chance of getting knocked out like he did with that little dirty jersey devil he fought years ago that knocked him out on a whim. Same with silvia, his talents are far greater than people give him credit for. You all should go on youtube and check out where normal people fight trained fighters, its like the people in hooters giving advice, until you fight dont act like you know it. Its way way harder than it looks.
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
Although I agree with you regarding the brilliance of Anderson Silva and GSP, I think you will find that many of us here train, and spar, with pro fighters.
As a side note, GSP walks around at about 190, not 200. a 20 pound cut is average for the WW division.
Although I agree with you regarding the brilliance of Anderson Silva and GSP, I think you will find that many of us here train, and spar, with pro fighters.
As a side note, GSP walks around at about 190, not 200. a 20 pound cut is average for the WW division.
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
Well its one thing if the people actually train and then talk. But if you guys train then you understand the reason why gsp, a.s. and a few other guys are the way they are. They are almost impossible to break mentally, meaning you cant get them off their game and turn it into a slug fest with them. They are using their ablilities to fight the way they are born. Just for an example, I would spar 260lb heavyweights, If I stood in front of them it wasnt for long lol. I fought 135, walked around at 150 I know what happens when I stand in front of someone like that, so I used my speed and angles. The main thing I did with those giants was wear out the inside outside leg kicks and occaisionally reach for the head, most were body and legs. If I decided to get away from that strategy I would get knocked out. I trained with a few guys that were sparring partners and rolling partners with gsp they said normal walk around he was 200, pre fight he would alter his diet and come off of it about 15lbs and cut a majority of it the night before and the finishing touches the day of weigh in. And before he leaves his area hotel or whatever he was back over 190.
Well its one thing if the people actually train and then talk. But if you guys train then you understand the reason why gsp, a.s. and a few other guys are the way they are. They are almost impossible to break mentally, meaning you cant get them off their game and turn it into a slug fest with them. They are using their ablilities to fight the way they are born. Just for an example, I would spar 260lb heavyweights, If I stood in front of them it wasnt for long lol. I fought 135, walked around at 150 I know what happens when I stand in front of someone like that, so I used my speed and angles. The main thing I did with those giants was wear out the inside outside leg kicks and occaisionally reach for the head, most were body and legs. If I decided to get away from that strategy I would get knocked out. I trained with a few guys that were sparring partners and rolling partners with gsp they said normal walk around he was 200, pre fight he would alter his diet and come off of it about 15lbs and cut a majority of it the night before and the finishing touches the day of weigh in. And before he leaves his area hotel or whatever he was back over 190.
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
Everyone complains about how GSP fights, yet none of his opponents have gone after him. They are just as cautious. I agree though that his fights are boring. I think his upcoming opponent, Carlos Condit, will be a big challenge for him. Condit is a handful and not afraid to attack.
Everyone complains about how GSP fights, yet none of his opponents have gone after him. They are just as cautious. I agree though that his fights are boring. I think his upcoming opponent, Carlos Condit, will be a big challenge for him. Condit is a handful and not afraid to attack.
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the fights are getting more and more selective , getting way over hyped over rematches , watching alot of them you can see some fighters sandbagging. I persona;ly dont like Dana White's attitude , he struts around and presents himself like a bad ass because he is the boss , Id love to see him pop off at the mouth and belittle a fighter only to have that guy crush his face.
the UFC (not all MMA) is getting like pro football , i wish it would go back to the way it was 15 years ago when guys would fight 2-3 fights a night rather than 2-3 fights a year </div></div>
100% right, i remember watching Dan Severn fight a couple times... now its a lot of showboating BS, which is why i shoot and lift instead of watch these jokers anymore.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the fights are getting more and more selective , getting way over hyped over rematches , watching alot of them you can see some fighters sandbagging. I persona;ly dont like Dana White's attitude , he struts around and presents himself like a bad ass because he is the boss , Id love to see him pop off at the mouth and belittle a fighter only to have that guy crush his face.
the UFC (not all MMA) is getting like pro football , i wish it would go back to the way it was 15 years ago when guys would fight 2-3 fights a night rather than 2-3 fights a year </div></div>
100% right, i remember watching Dan Severn fight a couple times... now its a lot of showboating BS, which is why i shoot and lift instead of watch these jokers anymore.
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont train it...but i do watch it...its really the only true form of prize fighting left since the UFC and its glorified bouncers ruined the fight game with their silly nonsense
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zKBDnifKo48"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zKBDnifKo48" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>
You do know that's not a real fight, right?
Rick
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont train it...but i do watch it...its really the only true form of prize fighting left since the UFC and its glorified bouncers ruined the fight game with their silly nonsense
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zKBDnifKo48"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zKBDnifKo48" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>
You do know that's not a real fight, right?
Rick
Re: Any Maui Thai guys here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBExHg5A-Bw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C_yDdSn0cs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBExHg5A-Bw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C_yDdSn0cs&feature=related
Re: Any Mauy Thai guys here?
Had a great work out with Kru Mark Dellagrotte today. Wow what a gret learning experience. ( he is regular size- im 6'7" 275lb)
Had a great work out with Kru Mark Dellagrotte today. Wow what a gret learning experience. ( he is regular size- im 6'7" 275lb)
Similar threads
