Anyone ever go the Form 1 suppressor route?

[TheGerman]

Have a guy on the crew that needs a suppressor because I'm sick of getting brake blasted as well as the fireball he makes at night is just retarded. Understandingly, he doesn't want to pay some retarded amount of money to get a suppressor and then wait 1 year for the dog and pony show tax stamp bullshit.

Form 1 suppressor 'kits' have been a thing for a while. I know at the start they were mostly not great quality and they were generally very long. I'm assuming its come a long way since then as there are multiple suppliers and this is catching on.

I've never even remotely looked into how to figure out what parts are needed, what goes together, what works, what doesn't, etc let alone assemble one.

Has anyone done this and/or knows the specifics and a go to setup for a 5.56 suppressor that is ideally, no longer than 6.5 inches?

Yes he will do the Form 1 first for you fudds out there about to lose your minds - suck a dick anyways.

 

[Lucreau]

Jk armament has been rolling out pretty popular kits for that use

 

[_Windrider_]

I bought a fuel filter on Facebook.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Have a guy on the crew that needs a suppressor because I'm sick of getting brake blasted as well as the fireball he makes at night is just retarded. Understandingly, he doesn't want to pay some retarded amount of money to get a suppressor and then wait 1 year for the dog and pony show tax stamp bullshit.

Form 1 suppressor 'kits' have been a thing for a while. I know at the start they were mostly not great quality and they were generally very long. I'm assuming its come a long way since then as there are multiple suppliers and this is catching on.

I've never even remotely looked into how to figure out what parts are needed, what goes together, what works, what doesn't, etc let alone assemble one.

Has anyone done this and/or knows the specifics and a go to setup for a 5.56 suppressor that is ideally, no longer than 6.5 inches?

Yes he will do the Form 1 first for you fudds out there about to lose your minds - suck a dick anyways.

Mosey on over to SQM III and ask around. There are a number of guys that have gone that route, quite successfully, for quite some time.

I'd go that route, but I have enough cans already. But, if I was starting out, I'd definitely go Form 1. A lot of good kits out there these days, other than material shortages potentially holding things up.

edit 3/21/22; before anyone gets their panties all wadded up about my comments above, they were made long before the ATF went all sideways on the subject of "manufacturing" Suppressors on a Form 1. Back when I commented on October 21st, everything was going fine in regard to Form 1's. No one had any inkling they'd go bizarro on the subject.

 

[TheGerman]

I bought a fuel filter on Facebook.

I got mine on sale when I bought the Airsoft Glock pistol sear.

 

[TheGerman]

Mosey on over to SQM III and ask around. There are a number of guys that have gone that route, quite successfully, for quite some time.

I'd go that route, but I have enough cans already. But, if I was starting out, I'd definitely go Form 1. A lot of good kits out there these days, other than material shortages potentially holding things up.

Whats SQM III?

I google that and get software quality management shit.

 

[_Windrider_]

Mosey on over to SQM III and ask around. There are a number of guys that have gone that route, quite successfully, for quite some time.

I'd go that route, but I have enough cans already. But, if I was starting out, I'd definitely go Form 1. A lot of good kits out there these days, other than material shortages potentially holding things up.

Too many cans. Ha! GAY!

 

[TxWelder35]

Is it the wait or the $ that he doesn’t want to deal with?

if he can dea with the wait, just get a YH turbo. They are $400 plus the stamp, if you can’t afford that you can’t afford to shoot your gun.

Or even better option, you get your SOT, do a couple law enforcement demos, and have a bunch of post sample toys and all the suppressors you want

 

[_Windrider_]

Is it the wait or the $ that he doesn’t want to deal with?

if he can dea with the wait, just get a YH turbo. They are $400 plus the stamp, if you can’t afford that you can’t afford to shoot your gun.

Or even better option, you get your SOT, do a couple law enforcement demos, and have a bunch of post sample toys and all the suppressors you want

i assure you its not the money.

 

[TxWelder35]

Understandingly, he doesn't want to pay some retarded amount of money to get a suppressor

i assure you its not the money.

Idk that quote has, “I’m a poor” written all over it.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Too many cans. Ha! GAY!

No, really. You do know that a .45 ACP can works like the shizzle on a 9mm, right ?

 

[Average guy]

Solvent traps direct has some very high quality parts. Definitely worth the look.

 

[E. Bryant]

Hmm, kinda figured you already had a 07/02 for what would be reasonable business-related reasons.

You didn't state the use case for this F1 build, but I'm assuming that it's going on a gas gun and would need to withstand a rigorous firing schedule. That's more difficult than building something for rimfire or subsonic centerfire rounds. You'll want steel or titanium parts (aluminum works in some applications, but not for sustained semi-auto centerfire use), and for use on an untuned host, you'll probably want measures to reduce backpressure. You also need to consider the resources you have available to build the part. Drilling baffles and caps is easy with jigs, simple clipping can be done with a handheld rotary tool, but other tasks really want to be done on a lathe or mill (albeit it without much in the way of specialized tooling, as the machining operations are generally simple).

Might want to check out the Quietbore 5.56 can, although it's carrying a bunch of extra weight that's not useful (LOL 0.098" radial wall thickness on the cups) and you'd probably want to do some non-standard porting (mouse/dater holes, etc.) to yield reasonable backpressure.

This might also be a good starting point for a 5.56 can, with minimal hassle to complete it:

FLO FULL KIT

wttactical.net

I recently responded to a thread in this subforum on the JK kits. Going that route for a semi-auto rifle would quickly get heavy and expensive.

JR Machine looks interesting, but I have absolutely zero experience and haven't even heard much about this company:

1.75x6" Titanium Kit

3058866

jrmachinepro.com

Otherwise, you can certainly seek out components from a variety of sellers and roll your own, but expect that you'll need to select those parts according to your own design, and probably modify those parts (by trimming skirt lengths, fabricating spacers, etc.) to achieve a workable assembly.

Online resources include:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Form1/

Form1.org - Index page

I'm sure you'll get along splendidly with the autistic membership who will endlessly debate the virtue of 50° vs 60° baffles based upon absolutely zero knowledge of first principles.

In short, honestly, have your buddy go buy whatever's on sale right now, get the Form 4 processing, and forget about it until next spring. Or obtain a 07/02 through your business. Or go ahead and do a F1 build, with the understanding that it's going to take some money and effort to do it correctly.

One last bit of advice - when filling out the F1, don't do anything silly like trying to create a new model name.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Filed my F-1 in August. Took 15 days for approval.

Built an 8" from Solvent Traps Direct.
I used a Cherry Bomb, 1.5" chamber and 8 baffles.

A couple of the baffles had the skirts trimmed.

The baffles will need to be clipped.

Here's some pics from a buddy's can that we built.
Shorter blast chamber and he used the short brake/adapter.

 

[MadDuner]

My QuietBore kit went together quite nicely.
Eform1 went pretty quick also.
So easy, even a cave man can do it.

 

[warnera1102]

I have built 2 cans so far both in a 30 cal. The best advise I can give you is to check out silencerstudent (youtube and pateron) as he has done alot of builds and testing in various calibers. This will be the best information you can obtain in my opinion.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I bought a fuel filter on Facebook.

I own a diesel so “they” can fuck off

 

[MDrimfirerookie]

I went form 1 for a precision can - yes I am a poor AND impatient. It seems to be working well. The form 1 process is pretty easy, Capitol Armory's website has a video series walking you through the process. The wait was pretty quick, I got mine back in about 2 weeks. The process itself wasn't too bad and I am about the furthest thing from a precision machinist.

As for cans, I am looking at JK Armament for my 5.56 can.

 

[warnera1102]

Quell Tech makes a very nice jig if you do not have a lathe.

 

[aslrookie]

My first one years ago was a F1. I think there’s a lot more resources now than there was then. I’d say having access to a mill and a lathe would provide the best results. If you don’t clip the baffles, the suppression level leaves much to be desired. A mill would make those clips a lot more uniform than eyeing it up with a small dremel with a cutting wheel.

The lathe will help with keeping the bore centered and uniform. You can do the jig and drill method, but especially with titanium, using a lathe would be much better. The F1 cans are kinda like building an AR15. You can buy the cheap stuff and slap it together with a drill bit and a drill (PSA version) or you can get the nice kits and have everything dialed in with equipment, weld the baffles together and etc (KAC version).

I would only do another F1 can if I had access to a lathe, mill and a tig welder.

 

[warnera1102]

My first one years ago was a F1. I think there’s a lot more resources now than there was then. I’d say having access to a mill and a lathe would provide the best results. If you don’t clip the baffles, the suppression level leaves much to be desired. A mill would make those clips a lot more uniform than eyeing it up with a small dremel with a cutting wheel.

The lathe will help with keeping the bore centered and uniform. You can do the jig and drill method, but especially with titanium, using a lathe would be much better. The F1 cans are kinda like building an AR15. You can buy the cheap stuff and slap it together with a drill bit and a drill (PSA version) or you can get the nice kits and have everything dialed in with equipment, weld the baffles together and etc (KAC version).

I would only do another F1 can if I had access to a lathe, mill and a tig welder.

Why weld them together? I do not think this is necessary at all. If the spacing is correct the baffles/cones will stay oriented correctly (clips on the same axis) when the end cap is tightend.

 

[D1gger]

I've been looking at these from Wyoming Arms https://wyomingarms.com/product/solvent-trap-titanium/
Lightweight and small. And they sell the "baffle strike kit" to help with completing the Form 1

 

[frankxtc]

For those of us that like to make things, I actually had fun figuring out how to cut threads w/ my ancient 1946 lathe.
No gearbox, manual selection and arrangement of the gear train was required, so as to obtain the thread pitch.
I bought the titanium on ebay, tooling from https://littlemachineshop.com/.
Titanium cones from WTT. TIG welded the cones together.
For my first silencer attempt (300 Blackout SBR, sub-sonic loads), it works great.
Will make another soon.

 

[Northfl]

I am waiting on my atf shit now for my first one. Went with cassletons advice and ordered stuff from solvent traps direct. Got all titanium parts. For a 30cal can 8” long. Looks to be quality stuff. Will see how it works here shortly i hope.

 

[hlee]

 

[The38Super]

I've built 5 F1 cans; damned things can be a bit addictive. If you're handy and can use a calculator, you can do your own and skip the kits. That opens you up to using the best cones, such as those from Dino Precision and Pure Performance Armory. Otherwise, I'd go with a White Trash Tactical kit.

Personally, I've always built mine from scratch. Three have Dino cones, one has mushroom baffles, and the other has cones that aren't so great. One Dino can lives on my HD 300BLK SBR; loudest thing, from the shooter's perspective, is the gun cycling. Similar designs have tested out at 120 dB. I've got an 8.5" Dino can that I use with my 6.5 CM bolt gun. Every time I take it to a group practice at my club, no less than three people come over and ask the brand, because they can't believe how quiet it is.

If you're serious about building, head to form1suppressors.net and definitely subscribe to Silencerstudent on the Tube or his Patreon.

 

[buggz]

Is it legal for one person to own the "license"/stamp to go to another persons place, that doesn't have the cleared paperwork, and use the other person's facilities?

No doubt, I will just probably end up going to a vendor kiosk and doing this via the other long wait route...

 

[warnera1102]

Im not sure I completely understand the question but the stamp is entitled to you. You can do a trust which changes some things, i would check out nationalguntrusts.com as they have alot of information. I had my trust done with them.

 

[buggz]

I, after being legally cleared and having the proper paperwork and stamp "tax", want to go to build a suppressor using some one else's facility and equipment.
This other person is NOT cleared, nor has paperwork nor stamp "tax".

Can I legally do this?

I don't have the equipment necessary to perform a build.

 

[1moaoff]

It's my understanding that quietbore has new baffles in the 5.56 kit. I have been contemplating getting one of them. Luckily I have lathes and mills if I need to modify anything. So i may play with one and see if anything helps or hurts.

 

[Yondering]

My first one years ago was a F1. I think there’s a lot more resources now than there was then. I’d say having access to a mill and a lathe would provide the best results. If you don’t clip the baffles, the suppression level leaves much to be desired. A mill would make those clips a lot more uniform than eyeing it up with a small dremel with a cutting wheel.

The lathe will help with keeping the bore centered and uniform. You can do the jig and drill method, but especially with titanium, using a lathe would be much better. The F1 cans are kinda like building an AR15. You can buy the cheap stuff and slap it together with a drill bit and a drill (PSA version) or you can get the nice kits and have everything dialed in with equipment, weld the baffles together and etc (KAC version).

I would only do another F1 can if I had access to a lathe, mill and a tig welder.

If you have a lathe, why the **** would you buy one of those “kits”? Make your own parts better and lighter.

I haven’t seen one of these kits yet that isn’t severely overbuilt and heavy, even for Bubba Bumpfire retards.

 

[warnera1102]

Heat treatment oven maybe a reason unless building a 22 can.
Most of your blast baffles are 17-4 stainless.
To be honest even my last can I couldn't build for the price I have in it with 9 baffles ( Ti and 17-4) ,tube and plan b adapter

 

[Yondering]

Heat treatment oven maybe a reason unless building a 22 can.
Most of your blast baffles are 17-4 stainless.
To be honest even my last can I couldn't build for the price I have in it with 9 baffles ( Ti and 17-4) ,tube and plan b adapter

I seriously doubt that. Material is cheap; no way someone sold you completed baffles cheaper than the material. I use all of the above materials and more on a regular basis in my shop, so I’m not guessing.

If you really want the lightest setup, then yeah heat treated 17-4 is the way to go, and what I prefer to use myself, but you can always use it without heat treatment, or something like 304, and still end up with most of your baffles a lot lighter than these kits.

I didn’t ask the question above to be educated on the subject, I was pointing out that buying a kit doesn’t make a lot of sense if you already have the capability to build your own stuff.

Edit to add: you can build a PID controlled heat treat setup for well under $200 to handle 17-4 baffles and muzzle devices. It’s pretty simple to do with a salt bath and a lead casting pot.

 

[warnera1102]

For reference my last can was about $600.. with stamp.

 

[The38Super]

I, after being legally cleared and having the proper paperwork and stamp "tax", want to go to build a suppressor using some one else's facility and equipment.
This other person is NOT cleared, nor has paperwork nor stamp "tax".

Can I legally do this?

I don't have the equipment necessary to perform a build.

So long as you're present while the silencer is being built (holes bored in baffles and end cap), you're fine to do that anywhere you wish. If you're not present, the other person is building a silencer and he's not the one with the tax stamp. Only exception is if you send your cones off to an SOT to be done.

 

[Yondering]

For reference my last can was about $600.. with stamp.

Yeah, I figured it’d be in that ballpark.

The one I’m building now, a 9” 30 cal rifle can in Ti and 17-4, cost me $140 in materials.

I’m thinking you didn’t have any idea what the materials cost when you made that claim above, but even so, that’s just a side note. My point is that you can build lighter and better suppressors yourself if you already have the equipment. Lighter baffles & tube means more internal volume, which is a good thing for more than just the weight of the suppressor.

 

[The38Super]

I seriously doubt that. Material is cheap; no way someone sold you completed baffles cheaper than the material. I use all of the above materials and more on a regular basis in my shop, so I’m not guessing.

If you really want the lightest setup, then yeah heat treated 17-4 is the way to go, and what I prefer to use myself, but you can always use it without heat treatment, or something like 304, and still end up with most of your baffles a lot lighter than these kits.

I didn’t ask the question above to be educated on the subject, I was pointing out that buying a kit doesn’t make a lot of sense if you already have the capability to build your own stuff.

Edit to add: you can build a PID controlled heat treat setup for well under $200 to handle 17-4 baffles and muzzle devices. It’s pretty simple to do with a salt bath and a lead casting pot.

One thing to keep in mind is cone design and how huge of a difference it makes to the performance of a can. A can with straight wall 60 degree cones will sound like shit compared to a can with the same number of Dino's, for example. The Form 1 world has changed a lot, just in the past 2 years. There's actual science involved now.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

ArmoryDen.com has some pretty good kits for a good price, but the only reason I did a form 1 is because it's supposed to be so fast and that wasn't the case for me. For some people it is a couple months but for me it was 10 months. I got my form 4 cans a month later..... you will get a ton better can just buying one factory made.

That said, I'm pretty happy with my titanium can I made with the kit I got from armory den. However, I had to get someone with a lathe to drill it and indicate each baffle, as my can is modular so you can make it as short or very long if you want to.

I'd consider the qd mount you want to run and get one that allows you to use a 1.375x24 tpi system for the qd. Armory den is where I found the better parts and good price. A steel one (I wouldn't get an aluminum one unless it's just for 22 or something) is very reasonable and easier to drill out with a good jig.

All in all it's a lot better to just get a good 30 cal can and I'd recommend the Nomad but he may do a form 1 and get it quick and be happy with the can, but it's not a guarantee. Nothing is with the atf

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

If any of you knowledgeable F1 guys want to help me out and tell me some things I can do to improve my cans performance please do pm me. I don't want to hijack the thread but I'd sure like to know if it's not complicated

 

[Yondering]

One thing to keep in mind is cone design and how huge of a difference it makes to the performance of a can. A can with straight wall 60 degree cones will sound like shit compared to a can with the same number of Dino's, for example. The Form 1 world has changed a lot, just in the past 2 years. There's actual science involved now.

Well that’s the great thing about building your own stuff, you can use whatever design you like.

Also some of you seem to be stuck in the idea that F1 = solvent trap kit. That’s not true at all, many of us were building our own F1 cans long before solvent traps were a thing.

 

[1moaoff]

If you have a lathe, why the **** would you buy one of those “kits”? Make your own parts better and lighter.

I haven’t seen one of these kits yet that isn’t severely overbuilt and heavy, even for Bubba Bumpfire retards.

If I design it it will be heavy. I have real cans so this would be to play with. Maybe after I will build from scratch. This would just be for fun in between work trips during the winter.

I'm curious how well the kits actually work, and what changes do or don't help with suppression. So to me it's a curiosity.

 

[aslrookie]

If you have a lathe, why the **** would you buy one of those “kits”? Make your own parts better and lighter.

I haven’t seen one of these kits yet that isn’t severely overbuilt and heavy, even for Bubba Bumpfire retards.

Just because you own a lathe or have access to one doesn’t mean you have the skill to make a tube, baffles and end cap. It’s a consistent way to establish the bore.

 

[aslrookie]

Why weld them together? I do not think this is necessary at all. If the spacing is correct the baffles/cones will stay oriented correctly (clips on the same axis) when the end cap is tightend.

Same reason why most manufacturers do it, either to eliminate the need for an outer tube and or increase the strength of the core.

 

[5pins]

A lot of good information at this forum.

https://form1.org

It replaced the form1suppressors.net that was taking down.

Spend some time and take a look around.

 

[oso1]

First forget about all the kits, JK, Quietbore, Solvent traps direct, they are far from the best. Buy a Ti tube, buy a end cap, which ever adaptor you want and then buy the cones/ups you want depending on intended use, you will have a much better can. I have built a form 1 my 6.5 creedmoor and it is quieter than most commercial cans, I have had many shooters want to know what brand it was because they wanted to buy one. I have also built a subsonic can for 300 BLK and in the process of building a reflex can for 5.56. Also as mentioned go over to form 1 .org all the info and suppliers you need will be available.

 

[oso1]

I forgot but you will not really save any money vs. a form 4 but you save a lot of time, average approval times right now are just under 3 weeks.

 

[darkfader]

I'm starting my fourth can as soon as I get the stamp approved. Lots to learn over at form1.org, but for your 5.56, the most efficient setup looks to be a mix of Dino Precision and Pure Performance Super Dupers. I've yet to build one with the mix, but a 6-7 inch can plus mount and end cap with a progressive stack of Dino's works quite well from my experience. My stamps have been coming back in 2-3 weeks and I've done 8 stamps total this year, between SBR's and suppressors. The user "Number40fan" at form1.org makes great drilling fixtures for most cups so a drill press is really all you need. I use chainsaw files to complete my clips. For your 5.56, bore at 9/32", and clip with a 5/32" round file and go about .200" deep. I got sick of waiting for my DeadAir cans to be released to me so I just started building my own. Eventually I'll have the Sandman S and Wolverine, but I'm betting my form1 suppressors are every bit as quiet, if not better. Everything I've built so far has a titanium tube and end cap with 17-4 heat treated stainless steel internals. I'm using deadair keymounts on most of them since I started collecting their muzzle devices when I ordered the Sandman.

JRMachine Pro seems to always be out of stock, but that's where I bought the AEM5 clone kit for my Mk12 and Gordon Carbine. It's got a diffusion wall and a progressive stack of Dino's and sounds amazing. I did a 9mm can for my MP5 using Pure Performance radials and it's very quiet. Super Precision Concepts is phasing out so you might still be able to get a tube and cap depending on your needs. Maverick Precision has some nice stuff. I'd advise against a kit, if you're putting in the time and work, might as well piece it together to do it right and it'll be worth the work.

 

[Northfl]

Got my approved email today for form 1 efile
Filed 10/7/21
Fingerprints received 10/15
Approved 10/25.
now to drill and play

 

[The38Super]

for your 5.56, the most efficient setup looks to be a mix of Dino Precision and Pure Performance Super Dupers. I've yet to build one with the mix, but a 6-7 inch can plus mount and end cap with a progressive stack of Dino's works quite well from my experience.

For 556, Shrimpgang cones are the new hot ticket and are even quieter than Dino's (3 dB, so neither earthshattering nor within the margin of error). Reason is the face of the Shrimp cones will just accommodate a bore to support 556. The more you can knife edge around the bore, the better suppression performance you'll get.

I want to know how you guys are getting your tax stamps in three weeks! I think my fastest was three weeks, but my last Form 1 was more like 3 months. Granted, this was back in January, but I'd expect things to be slower now.

 

[Northfl]

For 556, Shrimpgang cones are the new hot ticket and are even quieter than Dino's (3 dB, so neither earthshattering nor within the margin of error). Reason is the face of the Shrimp cones will just accommodate a bore to support 556. The more you can knife edge around the bore, the better suppression performance you'll get.

I want to know how you guys are getting your tax stamps in three weeks! I think my fastest was three weeks, but my last Form 1 was more like 3 months. Granted, this was back in January, but I'd expect things to be slower now.

we know a guy that knows a guy that knows the girl. I have no idea why some are quick and some are long. This was my first time but definitely not the last