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Anyone have a home vault/gunsafe

mi223

Full Member
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 14, 2017
815
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West Michigan
When i built my house a few years ago, i had a doorway cut into the 4 cement walls that would typically be filled with sand for the front porch. Then a concrete ceiling was poured in place. I haven't done anything with it yet but we are starting to finish our basement and this is on the list of things to do.

I did some calling and looking and found some safe doors but most are several thousand dollars. Then i found this.
https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1...eoZn4xzcgQbweIp8gUoq6Yrqab9XMGdBoC6i8QAvD_BwE

It isnt the highest quality but to be honest i am not terribly concerned about security where i live and we dont have anything that is extremely valuable. Mostly just guns and maybe some sentimental items.

Just curious if anyone has anything like this and would be willing to post some pics. I get it if someone didnt want to post pics of the iside of your safe but i would love to here a description of how you layed it out and what you did for shelving or what ever else.
 
I'd suggest driving around to your local locksmith's, speak to the owner/manager, and ask about used vault door/jamb combo's that they've got in the back.
Then start horse-trading.
 
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My Dad had one poured when he built his house about 15 years ago, I can't remember the brand of door he got off the top of my head. I'll run by there this afternoon and see.
 
Maybe we should have laws requiring the safe storage of firearms? /sarcasm

Or maybe you're a slob, you take no precautions, your shit gets stolen, and then people are dead from shit with your name on it.

The mantra of a blissful generation ...

Z9ube49.jpg
 
I'd suggest driving around to your local locksmith's, speak to the owner/manager, and ask about used vault door/jamb combo's that they've got in the back.
Then start horse-trading.

Interesting thought.. never thought to ask if they have any old stock or good used
 
My Dad had one poured when he built his house about 15 years ago, I can't remember the brand of door he got off the top of my head. I'll run by there this afternoon and see.

What did he use for shelving and gun racks? I have some ideas but just curious what others have done.
 
  • 12 Gauge Door and Door Frame
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This provides comfort against kids, but if you have a concrete room, you might get better security from a metal door that swings out.

That door, should someone see it, screams rob me & Talk about me to a lot of people.... its cool, its unique, its something that can be gossiped about.

I am a fan of buying used TL rated safes off of craigslist.....
 
  • 12 Gauge Door and Door Frame
  • Opens IN
This provides comfort against kids, but if you have a concrete room, you might get better security from a metal door that swings out.

That door, should someone see it, screams rob me & Talk about me to a lot of people.... its cool, its unique, its something that can be gossiped about.

I am a fan of buying used TL rated safes off of craigslist.....

Even the used TLs can run thousands of dollars. It's hard to get folks to drop that much coin on it if it doesn't have a trigger.
 
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It’s a story as old as time. Has a dozen $5000 rifle/optic combos. Won’t pop for a $1000 safe...

Personally, I’d be leery of storing my firearms in a concrete room. Sounds safe, but concrete takes a along time to dry, and will readily absorb water. You may not get robbed from without, but humidity and rust may rob you from within...
 
We cut some 1 1/2" X 1 1/2" strips of lumber, and used dowels for the guns to rest/hang on, and attached them to the wall with concrete screws. The guns rest horizontally on them. Down on the floor, and down the middle of the room, we just built some vertical racks for the rifles to sit in. On one wall is a counter for pistols and other accessories. Hard to explain really.
 
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Personally, I’d be leery of storing my firearms in a concrete room....
I've done it for the last 14 years and have never had an issue with rust or moisture. My room is heated in winter. I shut off air conditioning to it in summer as it stays pretty much a constant temperature spring, summer, and fall.

A lot depends on how well it was made and the type of soil surrounding it.
 
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I've done it for the last 14 years and have never had an issue with rust or moisture. My room is heated in winter. I shut off air conditioning to it in summer as it stays pretty much a constant temperature spring, summer, and fall.

A lot depends on how well it was made and the type of soil surrounding it.
There are a number of different ways/means of fabricating a 'secure' area. The bigger question is, 'secure' from what? These points CAN include:
theft/access
fire
humidity
sight/knowledge
rodents
flooding
smoke

All are causes of concern, and yet some are very 'opposite' in their construction. Then it's like "all-season tires", to which they are only 50% effective, AT BEST, for each season. Think about these cryptic statements.
 
Not to worried about moisture. Only two sides are to the outside and everything was coated with the tar like damp proofing. I will also stud the interior walls and Insulate and drywall. I will also run electric so adding a dehumidifier is no issue.
 
I went with Amsec. Their BF line wasn't quite the level of security I was wanting but I called them and they custom built me exactly what I wanted. Extra deep jam for the thicker walls (much more than their door accommodated as standard spec), upgraded steel thicknesses for the jams and door as well as upgrading to armor steel. Also upgraded locks and extra relockers added. All of this more than tripled the cost of the door but IMO it was money well spent.

My entire house is wrapped with a very thick rubber membrane which was expensive but there is no chance of water coming in through the walls or floor. After a rain storm humidity is naturally higher so I run a dehumidifier to bring it down but other than that it never climbs over 20% and so far after 2 years rust and moisture hasn't been an issue. I have a very efficient geothermal system that runs all the time and pulls a ton of moisture out of the air (so much I have to run humidifiers in the common areas) so I'm sure this contributes to the low humidity in the house as well.

I built out custom shelves and racks for the interior out of 3/4" furniture grade plywood. I boxed in the corners of the room (sacrifices a little space) and then build out everything else. I went vertical with the guns to make the most of space and two walls have cubbies built in for storage. I built everything up with a 6" toe kick so nothing can get wet if it did somehow flood and the bottoms of the shelves are cubbies for storing ammo which puts the butts of the rifles about 2' off the floor.

Sorry, but not posting pics.
 
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I went with Amsec. Their BF line wasn't quite the level of security I was wanting but I called them and they custom built me exactly what I wanted. Extra deep jam for the thicker walls (much more than their door accommodated as standard spec), upgraded steel thicknesses for the jams and door as well as upgrading to armor steel. Also upgraded locks and extra relockers added. All of this more than tripled the cost of the door but IMO it was money well spent.

My entire house is wrapped with a very thick rubber membrane which was expensive but there is no chance of water coming in through the walls or floor. After a rain storm humidity is naturally higher so I run a dehumidifier to bring it down but other than that it never climbs over 20% and so far after 2 years rust and moisture hasn't been an issue. I have a very efficient geothermal system that runs all the time and pulls a ton of moisture out of the air (so much I have to run humidifiers in the common areas) so I'm sure this contributes to the low humidity in the house as well.

I built out custom shelves and racks for the interior out of 3/4" furniture grade plywood. I boxed in the corners of the room (sacrifices a little space) and then build out everything else. I went vertical with the guns to make the most of space and two walls have cubbies built in for storage. I built everything up with a 6" toe kick so nothing can get wet if it did somehow flood and the bottoms of the shelves are cubbies for storing ammo which puts the butts of the rifles about 2' off the floor.

Sorry, but not posting pics.


That is the kind of feed back i am looking for. Sounds awesome. And i get not sharing pics
 
Talk to a fab shop. I would quote a 3/8" steel door/frame at under $1200 here in Indiana, plus whatever lock and lever mechanism you used on top.
 
The amsec doors look nice. They are not as expensive as others i looked at. Redneckbmxer how big is your room.

Mine is a little smaller than i would like. Without measuring it is roughly 6x5
 
Start with plate steel, and go thicker.
Start with Sargent and Greenlee locks, and then get better.
Start with waterproofing/sealing everything, then do more.
No pics.
Then reinforce everything you just did, redundantly.
For starters.
 
@mi223 i will send you a PM later. Some of us have to work for a living. I have some good info for you.

I agree with @Veer_G if it doesn't have a trigger people hesitate to spend the $$$$. Dont, you will just kick yourself later. Think about what you can and will put in there (firearms are not the most valuable things you own).

Thinking of just firearms, the cheapest AR I have would be about $1000 to replace if you count optics and other accessories. It does not take much to have a "collection" that set you back $20,000.
 
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I bought a house a few months ago and I am also kicking this idea around. For the DIY crowd, I've seen some ideas about building a room to tornado code and then making that your safe/safe room.
 
Or maybe you're a slob, you take no precautions, your shit gets stolen, and then people are dead from shit with your name on it.

The mantra of a blissful generation ...

Z9ube49.jpg

Damn, that's quite toxic. You have no clue what I do. Nor do I you. Nor would I ASSume either.

But claiming I'm the the 'blissful generation' while you lobby for more laws, clearly shows how out of touch or ignorant you really are. I like the .gov out out of my business. You clearly want them involved to keep you 'safe' from my firearms. Don't melt when Spring arrives.
 
Damn, that's quite toxic. You have no clue what I do. Nor do I you. Nor would I ASSume either.

But claiming I'm the the 'blissful generation' while you lobby for more laws, clearly shows how out of touch or ignorant you really are. I like the .gov out out of my business. You clearly want them involved to keep you 'safe' from my firearms. Don't melt when Spring arrives.

You're pretty fucking two-dimensional yourself, j***off. By the way, is that Russian?
 
You're pretty fucking two-dimensional yourself, j***off. By the way, is that Russian?

I don't speak retard. What does any of this mean and how is applicable to this discussion?

Strawman much?

Here's where WE are. YOU suggested he either get some sort of vault impervious to that of Oceans Whatever number they're on. Or maybe you prefer The Italian Job. I chimed in and called you on your extremely overreaching solution to quite a simple problem. You come with your "you are too, but what am I?" response. Are we just gonna continue to exchange sophomoric insults? Or can you maybe suggest an actual productive solution rather than attempt to demean the OPs attempt to get some help?
 
I don't speak retard. What does any of this mean and how is applicable to this discussion?

Strawman much?

Here's where WE are. YOU suggested he either get some sort of vault impervious to that of Oceans Whatever number they're on. Or maybe you prefer The Italian Job. I chimed in and called you on your extremely overreaching solution to quite a simple problem. You come with your "you are too, but what am I?" response. Are we just gonna continue to exchange sophomoric insults? Or can you maybe suggest an actual productive solution rather than attempt to demean the OPs attempt to get some help?

Jefe, some of us need to constantly feel like we're on the right side of any given issue by whipping out the paint can and a heavy brush and doing an Earl Scheib number on some other party. That isn't debate, not that I was looking for one from you. That's invalid argumentation. I never mentioned new laws, just the fact that generations of more recent vintage seem to like to divorce themselves of responsibility for disposition of weapons and the harm that might befall innocents because of such an attitude. I may have been brusque, but it was a generalized observation on the lack of regard for the common welfare of the people as a whole, not a character assassination in the individual. Frankly, to me, you're a parvenu looking to make rep, and my time is more profitably and pleasurably spent engaged in repartée avec des autres.

Off to the bin with the other overlooked souls, and I do hope that the OP leans towards a quality solution designed to thwart determined amateurs. Professionals tend to get in with enough time, and are best dealt with through monitoring and well-selected insurance.
 
I’ll take pictures, but I have a 6’x6’x15’ with five concrete walls. I just need a vault door....
 
If I were a gun crook, I'd love a poured concrete walled safe that stood out from the main foundation walls. Give me 15 minutes with a 16" diamond concrete saw, and I'd be in. Make it a block wall, 5 minutes. Screw the door, come in from the side. Fill it with of two layers of 5/8" re-bar, it'd slow things up, but still doable. No side walls? 6" of concrete on sides of the door, cut right around it.

Any concrete structure, poured or block, is going to require steel jams and a header purloin, all welded together. The jams will also have to be secured to the concrete will large self tapping bolts to help hold the weight of the door.

I will admit, this is looking at the situation from a worst case scenario. If it were me, I'd purchase a high end gun safe that would fit in the existing space, securely fasten to the walls and floor, then install a steel residential door (no window) in the present door opening. Add a commercial lockset and deadbolt, call it good. The Midway door, from what I can tell, appears to be designed to install in a wood framed rough opening. That would be a serious upgrade from a residential door.

I'm not a crook, but it always amazes me how easily structures can be broken into with tools I already own or can rent.
 
I agree with you. I work construction and have access to several tools that would get me in. Because i have these tools and a skill set to use them makes me valuable in todays job market. because of this i work for a living and have no reason to rob anyone.

I guess the way i look at it is if someone is going to show up with heavy duty demo saw, demo hammers and have the skill set to use them, they will get into anything. I personally am more worried about a junkie climbing throught a window looking for easy cash to get his next fix. I dont believe this guy is coming with anything to breech any safe.

This is just my opinion. Not saying i am right it is just my thoughts at the moment. Thanks for any help guys
 
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Go to a local welder... have them weld up a 'cage' door out of expanded steel mesh and angle iron. It may not stop professionals with torches and time... but are you really going to have guys come in with oxy and heavy tools? You are really trying to stop the snatch and grabs. PM me and I'll send you a picture of one I had made up.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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This is really my thought as well. If a professional burglar breaks into my safe they will be very disappointed. My firearms are not cheap but i dont have a safe full of AI's
 
Go to a local welder... have them weld up a 'cage' door out of expanded steel mesh and angle iron. It may not stop professionals with torches and time... but are you really going to have guys come in with oxy and heavy tools? You are really trying to stop the snatch and grabs. PM me and I'll send you a picture of one I had made up.

Cheers,

Sirhr

yes yes yes...
the welding fab shop will get a kick out of it and you will save money, i have made a couple myself for two gunshops
 
yes yes yes...
the welding fab shop will get a kick out of it and you will save money, i have made a couple myself for two gunshops


What kind of doors did you build? Actual safe doors or more of a security door like sihr suggested?
 
not safe doors, i built the frame, hindges, plate door, w hasps for a couple armory locks...
its been a while now, so the cost will not be the same, but i was able to fab and install under 2k
 
Spend the money and find something proper. Or get rid of your firearms and enjoy your root cellar.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stewardship

Gotta agree.

I think I remember you starting this project --maybe it wasn't you though but sounds familiar. I figured you'd have bought the door first.

I'm a former security expert among other things and doors are generally the most overbuilt part because they usually take the attack (I'd go through the walls). -X6 standards that UL uses now pretty much killed that, you can't do a cut and peel (like peeling a sardine can with a crowbar) on an X6 rated safe. I know a jewlery store that just lost half a million dollars, lost it all when they broke in next door and peeled the back off the safe and emptied without setting off an alarm. Granted the alarm the jewelry store had wasn't up to UL standards, but still.

On the other hand, you don't need a door that's WAY out of proportion to the walls. A solid full size TL30X6 scratch and dent costs $6000. You basically want the door off that. They sell just the doors, but they require some heavy installation. A lot of times the vault is built around the door. IMO, Midway doesn't sell security gear, safe stores do. Mfg.'s tend to overcharge IMO too. Find a good dealer, a BIG dealer even if you have to drive.

Call a big one, like a safe wal mart if you will, and get the best deal on a scratch and dent. Just make sure the dents are too bad, it takes a lot to dent 'em so you don't want one dropped ten feet and you don't want the concrete inside smashed. It'll save you a lot of money and they carry the same warranty. Just check that the glass relocker plate isn't damaged.

Thank GOD I didn't go your route myself... With this divorce, I'd have been FUCKED with a built in. I almost convered a space into one too. As it is, I still have to move around a 6000lb. safe when I have to move, and find a place that will accomodate it. God I dread moving when it comes to that.
 
It's a pretty basic risk assessment to be performed.

Asset identification, threat identification, site characterization and applying an appropriate layered security employing deterrence, detection, delay and response.

Not advertising that you've something worth stealing goes a ways to prevent theft (OPSEC), then a vaguely secure 'vault' with your 3/4 ton built-in Amsec BF7250 in the corner with alarms and cameras will go farther still. If nothing you have is utterly unique and irreplaceable then insurance will at least replace what may be taken. Only you know what you have, its value and what you perceive the threat is. Invest accordingly.

Without some form of intrusion detection summoning LE or the cavalry then it's just a matter of time until a dedicated assault gains entry into your vault.

I will say a vault door that opens-in encroaches on premium interior space with the door's swing. Whatever size you think is adequate, double it.

Check craigslist and the local locksmiths for 2nd-hand/reclaimed pre-hung vault doors/frames and then find a reputable general contractor to pour a foundation, walls and ceiling of concrete with copious rebar additions around an installed frame. It will keep most people honest and the commercial safe inside is where you keep the real valuables.

I'm not a crook, but it always amazes me how easily structures can be broken into with tools I already own or can rent.

It's amazing what you can do with a rented gas-powered abrasive saw, a portapower and or a forklift... :D
 
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I'm curious... can anyone point to a break-in of a domicile in which crooks used torches, porta-powers, heavy grinding tools, hydraulics, forklifts, anti-tank guns, acid drips, concrete saws... and other major implements of destruction... to steal a gun collection?

I ask because the vast majority of gun thefts are amateurs who break in... grab whatever they can... and guns are high on the list. A door that will stop then for 10 minutes... is effective.

When, ever, has an organized ring with heavy equipment targeted a residence?

IMHO... and maybe I'll be proved wrong with empirical data... the biggest concern is kids and snatch-thieves. Organized rings will succeed, no matter how thick the door or the concrete. But, really, have we EVER seen that kind of theft from a private collection?

Curious... and will be interested to hear about examples.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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I'm in the security field too. 99% of robberies are smash-and-grab stuff by common hoodlums. If you brag about your stash of expensive arms and cash/collectables then you can expect real thieves to come 'round who are not stupid and will take advantage of tools. Like I said, most of this stuff is to keep people honest.

That's what risk assessment's are about. If you don't have $1 million of assets to worry about then you don't need to invest in the crocodile pit or the sharks with laser beams on their heads.

There are some very inexpensive networked cameras that will notify you via phone app what's going on at your house real-time. If someone's breaking in you can call the cops while you're away from the house. Detection is key so armed responders come.
 
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This really has been my train of thought early on, Sirhr just had a much beter way with words than i do.

I would be curious to here of any examples or stories
 
This really has been my train of thought early on, Sirhr just had a much beter way with words than i do.

I would be curious to here of any examples or stories

What Sir said agrees with what I got from a long conversation with one of the highest-volume gun safe dealers in the country. He's former LE and Security consultant as well. He told me he recommends a minimum 1/2" thick solid steel door and 1/4"solid steel walls for a gun safe. Why? Because at that level, he has never had a safe get breached by robbers. He was quick to point out that BY NO MEANS does that mean it couldn't be done (of course), but rather that that seems to be the point at which it becomes too much trouble for the typical thief to get into, and increases their exposure to getting caught, etc. If someone shows up with torches, abrasive saws, etc, they're going to get in to pretty much whatever if you give them time. More is not necessarily better in that instance.
 
I thought about having what looks like a little broom closet with a false panel leading into the gun room. Fairly cheap to build, and if built and disguised properly, it would be fairly secure. A former neighbor had one, and it was really well done... First you would have to know it is there, then would have to figure out how to gain access to it.
 
I like these:
View attachment 6871734
Why advertise something of value?
Can be made to be kidproof as well.

R
There are 2 basic types of safe...fire safes, and burglary safes - 99% of these "gun storage" vaults are more designed to protect from fire, and will not last long against an attack from a knowledgeable burglar, or anyone with the tools and a real desire to get into it.

Also, if you want to get a safe...DO NOT (repeat, do not) get one with an "electronic lock"...most of the manufacturers have default pass codes built into these, so anyone with the default reset code can get in.

IMO, Concealment is the only effective way to own a safe...over the years, I've known a couple of people who had the misfortune of being robbed, and in all cases, their safes were targetted, and plainly visible.