Anyone have the Meplat attachment on their Giraud?
- Thread starter thefitter
- Start date
Re: Anyone have the Meplat attachment on their Giraud?
I have the cutter and a few caliber inserts. Pros... works fast and well. Cons... some bullets are a little hard to hang onto while sticking into the shell holder due to the depth of the design, and if buzzing bullets on loaded rounds, better make sure you have plenty of neck tension or you can end up tweaking your seating depth.
I use it a lot less now shooting Bergers than I did with Sierras and the snaggle-tooth tips they have. The bigger .338 Bergers have me kind of tempted to set it up again, as they are less uniform out of the box than the .30 cal stuff I shoot most of the time.
I have the cutter and a few caliber inserts. Pros... works fast and well. Cons... some bullets are a little hard to hang onto while sticking into the shell holder due to the depth of the design, and if buzzing bullets on loaded rounds, better make sure you have plenty of neck tension or you can end up tweaking your seating depth.
I use it a lot less now shooting Bergers than I did with Sierras and the snaggle-tooth tips they have. The bigger .338 Bergers have me kind of tempted to set it up again, as they are less uniform out of the box than the .30 cal stuff I shoot most of the time.
Re: Anyone have the Meplat attachment on their Giraud?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the cutter and a few caliber inserts. Pros... works fast and well. Cons... some bullets are a little hard to hang onto while sticking into the shell holder due to the depth of the design, and if buzzing bullets on loaded rounds, better make sure you have plenty of neck tension or you can end up tweaking your seating depth.
I use it a lot less now shooting Bergers than I did with Sierras and the snaggle-tooth tips they have. The bigger .338 Bergers have me kind of tempted to set it up again, as they are less uniform out of the box than the .30 cal stuff I shoot most of the time. </div></div>
Yeah that was one of the issues I could see happening with it.
I've heard good things about the Hoover trimmer. Unless someone shows me a better one I will go with it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the cutter and a few caliber inserts. Pros... works fast and well. Cons... some bullets are a little hard to hang onto while sticking into the shell holder due to the depth of the design, and if buzzing bullets on loaded rounds, better make sure you have plenty of neck tension or you can end up tweaking your seating depth.
I use it a lot less now shooting Bergers than I did with Sierras and the snaggle-tooth tips they have. The bigger .338 Bergers have me kind of tempted to set it up again, as they are less uniform out of the box than the .30 cal stuff I shoot most of the time. </div></div>
Yeah that was one of the issues I could see happening with it.
I've heard good things about the Hoover trimmer. Unless someone shows me a better one I will go with it.
Re: Anyone have the Meplat attachment on their Giraud?
The Hoover, the Giraud, and pretty much every other meplat trimmer - save one - all register off the bullet ogive.
The Whidden system uses a caliber specific bullet holder that fits in a Wilson case trimmer, and registers off the base of the bullet - trimming to a specific OAL.
Assuming the bullets all measure fairly consistently as far as base-to-ogive dimension, there probably isn't a whole heck of a lot of difference.
A pair of rubber (latex) gloves to help aid in gripping the tail end of the bullets makes life a lot easier on the Giraud, and speeds things up considerably. Actually, I recommend wearing a set for pretty much all operations on it - keeps your hands cleaner, less fatigue/cramping of your fingers from gripping cases, etc. I wouldn't spend the $$$ on the Giraud *just* for meplat uniforming, but if you already have one its not too expensive to get into buzzing meplats.
The Hoover, the Giraud, and pretty much every other meplat trimmer - save one - all register off the bullet ogive.
The Whidden system uses a caliber specific bullet holder that fits in a Wilson case trimmer, and registers off the base of the bullet - trimming to a specific OAL.
Assuming the bullets all measure fairly consistently as far as base-to-ogive dimension, there probably isn't a whole heck of a lot of difference.
A pair of rubber (latex) gloves to help aid in gripping the tail end of the bullets makes life a lot easier on the Giraud, and speeds things up considerably. Actually, I recommend wearing a set for pretty much all operations on it - keeps your hands cleaner, less fatigue/cramping of your fingers from gripping cases, etc. I wouldn't spend the $$$ on the Giraud *just* for meplat uniforming, but if you already have one its not too expensive to get into buzzing meplats.
Re: Anyone have the Meplat attachment on their Giraud?
Been a while since I seriously looked at the calculations, but IIRC the bullet OAL is a part of the BC calculation. Trimming to a consistent OAL should, in theory, help make for more consistent BC from bullet to bullet - especially if they are pointed afterwards. Whether it makes any difference which way you do it is something I've never really taken the time to even attempt to quantify. Either way is a noticeable step in the right direction IMO. I just find it interesting that there is at least one pretty good shooter (Whidden) out there that does it slightly differently than the rest of the crowd. I never have gotten around to asking him exactly 'why'.
Been a while since I seriously looked at the calculations, but IIRC the bullet OAL is a part of the BC calculation. Trimming to a consistent OAL should, in theory, help make for more consistent BC from bullet to bullet - especially if they are pointed afterwards. Whether it makes any difference which way you do it is something I've never really taken the time to even attempt to quantify. Either way is a noticeable step in the right direction IMO. I just find it interesting that there is at least one pretty good shooter (Whidden) out there that does it slightly differently than the rest of the crowd. I never have gotten around to asking him exactly 'why'.
Re: Anyone have the Meplat attachment on their Giraud?
And unfortunately I don't think you could do a combination of both. Pretty much one or the other.
Ideally the distance from base to ogive to tip would be exact.
<span style="color: #3366FF">Edit: You know now that I think about it if the bullets over all dimension is the same then the BC is the same. And as long as your ogive is always the same distance from the lands then you are golden.
I think therefore that the trimmer that creates bullets with the same BC at the start is the way to go.
Thoughts? Opinions? Tangents?</span>
And unfortunately I don't think you could do a combination of both. Pretty much one or the other.
Ideally the distance from base to ogive to tip would be exact.
<span style="color: #3366FF">Edit: You know now that I think about it if the bullets over all dimension is the same then the BC is the same. And as long as your ogive is always the same distance from the lands then you are golden.
I think therefore that the trimmer that creates bullets with the same BC at the start is the way to go.
Thoughts? Opinions? Tangents?</span>
Re: Anyone have the Meplat attachment on their Giraud?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And unfortunately I don't think you could do a combination of both. Pretty much one or the other.
Ideally the distance from base to ogive to tip would be exact.
<span style="color: #3366FF">Edit: You know now that I think about it if the bullets over all dimension is the same then the BC is the same. And as long as your ogive is always the same distance from the lands then you are golden.
I think therefore that the trimmer that creates bullets with the same BC at the start is the way to go.
Thoughts? Opinions? Tangents?</span>
Over all dimensions (and weight), the problem is, if you've ever put bullets on an optical comparator-there are differences!
Just like putting them on a good scale, there are variations to say the least! I agree with your argument, when the tipping is done, if the length remains the same-your right on. I think that many match bullets come from several different dies (in one box), if you sort by bearing surface, you'll usually get three or four piles, and as you know,and as you very rightly pointed out, dimensions are more important than weight-if not why tip? </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And unfortunately I don't think you could do a combination of both. Pretty much one or the other.
Ideally the distance from base to ogive to tip would be exact.
<span style="color: #3366FF">Edit: You know now that I think about it if the bullets over all dimension is the same then the BC is the same. And as long as your ogive is always the same distance from the lands then you are golden.
I think therefore that the trimmer that creates bullets with the same BC at the start is the way to go.
Thoughts? Opinions? Tangents?</span>
Over all dimensions (and weight), the problem is, if you've ever put bullets on an optical comparator-there are differences!
Just like putting them on a good scale, there are variations to say the least! I agree with your argument, when the tipping is done, if the length remains the same-your right on. I think that many match bullets come from several different dies (in one box), if you sort by bearing surface, you'll usually get three or four piles, and as you know,and as you very rightly pointed out, dimensions are more important than weight-if not why tip? </div></div>
Re: Anyone have the Meplat attachment on their Giraud?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And unfortunately I don't think you could do a combination of both. Pretty much one or the other.
Ideally the distance from base to ogive to tip would be exact.
<span style="color: #3366FF">Edit: You know now that I think about it if the bullets over all dimension is the same then the BC is the same. And as long as your ogive is always the same distance from the lands then you are golden.
I think therefore that the trimmer that creates bullets with the same BC at the start is the way to go.
Thoughts? Opinions? Tangents?</span> </div></div>
A meplat trimmer decreases the BC of the bullet (BC goes down) but significantly decreases the BC variance
A meplat pointer increases the BC of the bullet (BC goes up) and significantly decreases the BC variance
Minor changes to the BC can be dialed out with the scope as long as all the bullets have a small variance in the average BC. Thus both meplat trimmers and meplat pointers improve scores (accuracy) at distance beyone 300 yards.
Meplat trimmers will produce ammo that has a smaller group size that unmolested bullets, and the group will hit lower on the target.
Meplat pointers will produce ammo that has a smaller group size than unmolested bullets, and the group will hit higher on the target.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And unfortunately I don't think you could do a combination of both. Pretty much one or the other.
Ideally the distance from base to ogive to tip would be exact.
<span style="color: #3366FF">Edit: You know now that I think about it if the bullets over all dimension is the same then the BC is the same. And as long as your ogive is always the same distance from the lands then you are golden.
I think therefore that the trimmer that creates bullets with the same BC at the start is the way to go.
Thoughts? Opinions? Tangents?</span> </div></div>
A meplat trimmer decreases the BC of the bullet (BC goes down) but significantly decreases the BC variance
A meplat pointer increases the BC of the bullet (BC goes up) and significantly decreases the BC variance
Minor changes to the BC can be dialed out with the scope as long as all the bullets have a small variance in the average BC. Thus both meplat trimmers and meplat pointers improve scores (accuracy) at distance beyone 300 yards.
Meplat trimmers will produce ammo that has a smaller group size that unmolested bullets, and the group will hit lower on the target.
Meplat pointers will produce ammo that has a smaller group size than unmolested bullets, and the group will hit higher on the target.
