With the IR laser, it looks like this might an excellent NV sight and aiming laser. Has anyone actually tried one at night?
Night Vision Anyone used an EOLAD?
- Thread starter One-Eyed Jack
- Start date
Re: Anyone used an EOLAD?
I have used a MARS sight with the IR laser, it is nice. I did not know they made these.
I have used a MARS sight with the IR laser, it is nice. I did not know they made these.
Re: Anyone used an EOLAD?
How is the Fraser Volpe MARS with NV? The EOLAD comes in several laser configurations, but I've never heard anyone talk about them (or the MARS either).
How is the Fraser Volpe MARS with NV? The EOLAD comes in several laser configurations, but I've never heard anyone talk about them (or the MARS either).
Re: Anyone used an EOLAD?
MARS sight is a nice unit, but you don't see very many of them. The one I used just had Just had a round IR laser dot. The laser is very bright.
MARS sight is a nice unit, but you don't see very many of them. The one I used just had Just had a round IR laser dot. The laser is very bright.
Re: Anyone used an EOLAD?
About a year ago there was a large number of MARS sights that were made available that were made by ITL in Israel. The current version is made by Fraser-Volpe in the US. Used MARS sights with the IR laser can be found for $1000 or less, there are a few on eBay right now.
The EOLAD has the better-known EOTech 65MOA circle-dot sight with an aiming laser module added by Laser Devices. With a little patience I should be able to find one with the 0.4mw IR aiming beam that can be sold initially to LE/mil only (resales of used ones to civilians is OKay).
I haven't used or seen either one in person and would like to hear from people who have used them.
About a year ago there was a large number of MARS sights that were made available that were made by ITL in Israel. The current version is made by Fraser-Volpe in the US. Used MARS sights with the IR laser can be found for $1000 or less, there are a few on eBay right now.
The EOLAD has the better-known EOTech 65MOA circle-dot sight with an aiming laser module added by Laser Devices. With a little patience I should be able to find one with the 0.4mw IR aiming beam that can be sold initially to LE/mil only (resales of used ones to civilians is OKay).
I haven't used or seen either one in person and would like to hear from people who have used them.
Re: Anyone used an EOLAD?
Yes, I have one on eval right now. It is basically the Eotech holographic sight with an LDI DBAL mounted on the side.
I'm not a big fan of multi-modal, integrated optics. It could just be me ... for example, with audio system technology, you'd never catch me with a power amplifier and pre-amplifier combined into one "receiver."
The PEQ-16A is a more extreme example of what I try to avoid. It is an integration of the PEQ-15 and a visible flashlight. At 90 lumens output, the flashlight is no match for the Streamlight TLR or Surefire X-series compact, "pistol" flashlights that output 120+ lumens and 170+ lumens respectively. To aggravate matters, the PEQ-16A flashlight uses a bulb (as does the PEQ-14) that is prone to burning out and breaking, while the Streamlight TLR and Surefire X-series use virtually indestructible LEDs. Also, the PEQ-16A is a power hog (because of the demands from the not-so-brilliant flashlight) and has terrible run-time. It's a real shame, as Insight's ATPIAL / PEQ-15 had an ergonomic and performance edge on LDI's DBAL / PEQ-15A, and the mediocre "torch" on the PEQ-16A drops the superlative PEQ-15 into the bush league.
The EOTECH-LDI EOLAD is a better thought-out arrangement and implementation than the Insight PEQ-16A, but where I can simply use a DBAL-A2 with an EOTECH 553 but with each as independent components, I don't see the need to integrate the components into one chassis and sacrifice the more flexible placement options for each independent component. There may be one exception to this ... when adapting "older" HK machineguns and submachineguns such as the HK-53 and MP-5 to these more modern optics, depending on how you do it, there may be less rail space to work with, and thus benefits to having integrated optics if you need more than one mode on the same gun. For example, on my HK-53, I do prefer to keep the forearm free of rails and accessories, and therefore the EOLAD is useful for getting the holographic optics + IR laser aimer + IR laser aimer onto the gun with minimal use of rail space -- in fact, that's the host firearm on which I have the EOLAD-2VI demo mounted right now. Not bad for the HK-53, but for my M16s, I'm sticking with the separate EOTECH & LDI DBAL components.
For those seeking DBAL functionality but in a more eye-safe IR laser package, there's the Class 1 DBAL I2. For those who have to have it integrated onto an EOTECH, there's the Class 1 EOLAD 1I. Both are civilian legal. Victor / TNVC sells both.
IR-V
Yes, I have one on eval right now. It is basically the Eotech holographic sight with an LDI DBAL mounted on the side.
I'm not a big fan of multi-modal, integrated optics. It could just be me ... for example, with audio system technology, you'd never catch me with a power amplifier and pre-amplifier combined into one "receiver."
The PEQ-16A is a more extreme example of what I try to avoid. It is an integration of the PEQ-15 and a visible flashlight. At 90 lumens output, the flashlight is no match for the Streamlight TLR or Surefire X-series compact, "pistol" flashlights that output 120+ lumens and 170+ lumens respectively. To aggravate matters, the PEQ-16A flashlight uses a bulb (as does the PEQ-14) that is prone to burning out and breaking, while the Streamlight TLR and Surefire X-series use virtually indestructible LEDs. Also, the PEQ-16A is a power hog (because of the demands from the not-so-brilliant flashlight) and has terrible run-time. It's a real shame, as Insight's ATPIAL / PEQ-15 had an ergonomic and performance edge on LDI's DBAL / PEQ-15A, and the mediocre "torch" on the PEQ-16A drops the superlative PEQ-15 into the bush league.
The EOTECH-LDI EOLAD is a better thought-out arrangement and implementation than the Insight PEQ-16A, but where I can simply use a DBAL-A2 with an EOTECH 553 but with each as independent components, I don't see the need to integrate the components into one chassis and sacrifice the more flexible placement options for each independent component. There may be one exception to this ... when adapting "older" HK machineguns and submachineguns such as the HK-53 and MP-5 to these more modern optics, depending on how you do it, there may be less rail space to work with, and thus benefits to having integrated optics if you need more than one mode on the same gun. For example, on my HK-53, I do prefer to keep the forearm free of rails and accessories, and therefore the EOLAD is useful for getting the holographic optics + IR laser aimer + IR laser aimer onto the gun with minimal use of rail space -- in fact, that's the host firearm on which I have the EOLAD-2VI demo mounted right now. Not bad for the HK-53, but for my M16s, I'm sticking with the separate EOTECH & LDI DBAL components.
For those seeking DBAL functionality but in a more eye-safe IR laser package, there's the Class 1 DBAL I2. For those who have to have it integrated onto an EOTECH, there's the Class 1 EOLAD 1I. Both are civilian legal. Victor / TNVC sells both.
IR-V
Re: Anyone used an EOLAD?
The MARS and EOLAD are attractive to me for just the reason you touched on, IR-V: Most of my rifles have a Picatinny rail on top of the receiver, but no rails on the forend. Everything has to be mounted in the 5 or 6 inches of rail, and these two optics combine functions and save space. With the one rifle I have with a full rail system I can use a PEQ or GCP.
The MARS and EOLAD are attractive to me for just the reason you touched on, IR-V: Most of my rifles have a Picatinny rail on top of the receiver, but no rails on the forend. Everything has to be mounted in the 5 or 6 inches of rail, and these two optics combine functions and save space. With the one rifle I have with a full rail system I can use a PEQ or GCP.
Re: Anyone used an EOLAD?
The Insight ISM-IR is an interesting variant on the MARS theme, combining an Aimpoint-type "red dot" aimer with ATPIAL/PEQ-15 IR laser designation and illumination. I'm becoming a bigger fan of the holosight (versus red-dot) for aiming, but have the ISM-IR on a SCAR-16 and am very comfortable with it on that rifle.
A major benefit that the DBAL has going for it is its overall compact size. I use the DBAL A3 with Docter mini-reflex sight on my Steyr AUG-A1 (on top of the integrated Swarovski scope / carry handle, via rail adapter), and DBAL A3 + Zeiss Z-point on various submachineguns. The A3 arrangement is interesting as it allows the operator to "integrate" components into a compact, multi-function package, but with the flexibility to disengage the components and mount separately as needed.
Lots of interesting options made possible by the competitiveness of the various manufacturers of weapons optics to continually seek new ways to break new ground on modular designs.
IR-V
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The MARS and EOLAD are attractive to me for just the reason you touched on, IR-V: Most of my rifles have a Picatinny rail on top of the receiver, but no rails on the forend. Everything has to be mounted in the 5 or 6 inches of rail, and these two optics combine functions and save space. With the one rifle I have with a full rail system I can use a PEQ or GCP. </div></div>
The Insight ISM-IR is an interesting variant on the MARS theme, combining an Aimpoint-type "red dot" aimer with ATPIAL/PEQ-15 IR laser designation and illumination. I'm becoming a bigger fan of the holosight (versus red-dot) for aiming, but have the ISM-IR on a SCAR-16 and am very comfortable with it on that rifle.
A major benefit that the DBAL has going for it is its overall compact size. I use the DBAL A3 with Docter mini-reflex sight on my Steyr AUG-A1 (on top of the integrated Swarovski scope / carry handle, via rail adapter), and DBAL A3 + Zeiss Z-point on various submachineguns. The A3 arrangement is interesting as it allows the operator to "integrate" components into a compact, multi-function package, but with the flexibility to disengage the components and mount separately as needed.
Lots of interesting options made possible by the competitiveness of the various manufacturers of weapons optics to continually seek new ways to break new ground on modular designs.
IR-V
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The MARS and EOLAD are attractive to me for just the reason you touched on, IR-V: Most of my rifles have a Picatinny rail on top of the receiver, but no rails on the forend. Everything has to be mounted in the 5 or 6 inches of rail, and these two optics combine functions and save space. With the one rifle I have with a full rail system I can use a PEQ or GCP. </div></div>
Re: Anyone used an EOLAD?
The Insight ISM-IR has two aiming lasers and a red dot sight, but no IR illumination. The sight is mounted above the receiver where a red dot would normally be located, and the operator would probably get a faceful of reflected IR from an illuminator. Yeah, it's a MARS in sheep's clothing, I like it!
Are the DBAL + Docter and DBAL + Z-Point supposed to be day-night sighting systems when used with NVDs? I looked at the DBAL-A3 webpage and noted that the soldiers had Aimpoint T-1 red dots and active DBAL-A3 visible lasers, but no NV equipment on their helmets. Maybe they were supposed to be using the visible lasers as very fast aimers. I had thought the visible lasers were simply aids in aligning the rifle and DBAL IR laser sight in daylight.
The Insight ISM-IR has two aiming lasers and a red dot sight, but no IR illumination. The sight is mounted above the receiver where a red dot would normally be located, and the operator would probably get a faceful of reflected IR from an illuminator. Yeah, it's a MARS in sheep's clothing, I like it!
Are the DBAL + Docter and DBAL + Z-Point supposed to be day-night sighting systems when used with NVDs? I looked at the DBAL-A3 webpage and noted that the soldiers had Aimpoint T-1 red dots and active DBAL-A3 visible lasers, but no NV equipment on their helmets. Maybe they were supposed to be using the visible lasers as very fast aimers. I had thought the visible lasers were simply aids in aligning the rifle and DBAL IR laser sight in daylight.
Re: Anyone used an EOLAD?
Not correct on the ISM-IR. It has two IR lasers. One is for aiming (non adjustable focus), the other has variable focus for illumination. It is basically an AN/PEQ-15 (ATPIAL) with an integrated red dot sight. The IR illuminator is very tight (does not have a lot of ambient light reflections and artifacts from the lens) and does not bloom the night vision even on the most "open" setting. As with the illuminator on the ATPIAL, you get a 20' diameter, round illumination window at 200 yards that has approximately the intensity of a 170 lumen visible lamp at 100 yards.
You can read more about it here:
http://www.insighttechgear.com/products-ismir.htm
The view of the left is from the ocular end. The view on the right is from the objective end. The IR laser illuminator with the variable focus is the aperture at the 5-o'clock position in relation to the objective on the red-dot "scope."
On the DBAL combo, the Z-point and Docter are really intended to give rapid aiming options during the daytime and when there's brighter, visible, ambient lighting. For aiming in the dark, the designation laser on the DBAL is used for aiming the weapon. The combination gives electro-optics for daytime and night-time use without having to put optics on and take optics off depending on the lighting conditions. On both the Z-point and Docter, you can modulate the intensity of the aiming dot for use with night vision (<span style="font-weight: bold">behind</span> these optics), but the field of view is going to better with the "heads up" display and narrow frame surrounding the Docter's lens versus that of the Z-point.
On the DBAL, the visible laser (per my other post in a different thread) is primarily used by the military for bore-sighting the IR laser components to the host weapon, since the visible laser azimuth is fully linked to the IR laser azimuth. LDI offers the DBAL with much more powerful visible lasers in the green wavelengths, but the military does not procure these. I'm not certain what photos you were looking at on the LDI site, but if you could see colors in the image, then it is a daytime scenario and ergo the lack of night vision goggles.
IR-V
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Insight ISM-IR has two aiming lasers and a red dot sight, but no IR illumination. The sight is mounted above the receiver where a red dot would normally be located, and the operator would probably get a faceful of reflected IR from an illuminator. Yeah, it's a MARS in sheep's clothing, I like it!
Are the DBAL + Docter and DBAL + Z-Point supposed to be day-night sighting systems when used with NVDs? I looked at the DBAL-A3 webpage and noted that the soldiers had Aimpoint T-1 red dots and active DBAL-A3 visible lasers, but no NV equipment on their helmets. Maybe they were supposed to be using the visible lasers as very fast aimers. I had thought the visible lasers were simply aids in aligning the rifle and DBAL IR laser sight in daylight.
</div></div>
Not correct on the ISM-IR. It has two IR lasers. One is for aiming (non adjustable focus), the other has variable focus for illumination. It is basically an AN/PEQ-15 (ATPIAL) with an integrated red dot sight. The IR illuminator is very tight (does not have a lot of ambient light reflections and artifacts from the lens) and does not bloom the night vision even on the most "open" setting. As with the illuminator on the ATPIAL, you get a 20' diameter, round illumination window at 200 yards that has approximately the intensity of a 170 lumen visible lamp at 100 yards.
You can read more about it here:
http://www.insighttechgear.com/products-ismir.htm
The view of the left is from the ocular end. The view on the right is from the objective end. The IR laser illuminator with the variable focus is the aperture at the 5-o'clock position in relation to the objective on the red-dot "scope."
On the DBAL combo, the Z-point and Docter are really intended to give rapid aiming options during the daytime and when there's brighter, visible, ambient lighting. For aiming in the dark, the designation laser on the DBAL is used for aiming the weapon. The combination gives electro-optics for daytime and night-time use without having to put optics on and take optics off depending on the lighting conditions. On both the Z-point and Docter, you can modulate the intensity of the aiming dot for use with night vision (<span style="font-weight: bold">behind</span> these optics), but the field of view is going to better with the "heads up" display and narrow frame surrounding the Docter's lens versus that of the Z-point.
On the DBAL, the visible laser (per my other post in a different thread) is primarily used by the military for bore-sighting the IR laser components to the host weapon, since the visible laser azimuth is fully linked to the IR laser azimuth. LDI offers the DBAL with much more powerful visible lasers in the green wavelengths, but the military does not procure these. I'm not certain what photos you were looking at on the LDI site, but if you could see colors in the image, then it is a daytime scenario and ergo the lack of night vision goggles.
IR-V
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Insight ISM-IR has two aiming lasers and a red dot sight, but no IR illumination. The sight is mounted above the receiver where a red dot would normally be located, and the operator would probably get a faceful of reflected IR from an illuminator. Yeah, it's a MARS in sheep's clothing, I like it!
Are the DBAL + Docter and DBAL + Z-Point supposed to be day-night sighting systems when used with NVDs? I looked at the DBAL-A3 webpage and noted that the soldiers had Aimpoint T-1 red dots and active DBAL-A3 visible lasers, but no NV equipment on their helmets. Maybe they were supposed to be using the visible lasers as very fast aimers. I had thought the visible lasers were simply aids in aligning the rifle and DBAL IR laser sight in daylight.
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