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AR 10 VS M1A EBR

H

hydra 67

Private
Minuteman
Jun 17, 2012
17
0
31
Hello all!!

Im looking at getting my foot in the door for long range shooting. I want a weapon that not only can reach to 1000 yards but also be used for room clearing if need be.

I have narrowed it down to AR 10 ( POF 308 20") or a M1A put in a SAGE EBR chassis.

Key details i need is...

1 MOA capable

Must be very reliable


Pros and cons to each system? I am familiar with the AR system but dont have any strong attachment to it.

Thanks for letting me pick your brains and sorry this is a repost.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Reach to 1000 yards and be good for room clearing?
Trying to get one gun that will do both means a lot of compromise.

For the 1000 yards and target shooting, go with the AR style platform such as a GAP-10 unless you have a lot of time and money to spend taking an M1A up to the same level of accuracy.

Room clearing? Get yourself a short barreled M4 style rifle in .223 or a short barreled shotgun, or one of those FN Tactical 45 pistols with the 15 round mags.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydra 67</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1000 yards but also be used for room clearing
</div></div>

Under what circumstances will you be 'clearing' rooms with your 1k yard target rifle?
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Either will do both, if your tactics, are up to the task. Remember the weapon dictates the tactics, not the other way around. The M14 was and is still used by many, to clear rooms, but it won't look good in a civi court.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Probably should mention this will be a duty rifle and in use by the designated marksman...
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

20" AR10, its simpler, lower/easier maintenance, can be lighter. Still a compromise.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydra 67</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Probably should mention this will be a duty rifle and in use by the designated marksman... </div></div>

What LE agency is making 1000yd shots? Also you need to consider the over-penetration of a 7.62 round in CQB scenarios. Probably your best bet is a very light weight bullet - Barnes 110gr will still go through a lot of drywall/ wood.

Also you may consider an 18" gun over a 20" gun.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

AR10.

The M1A is a good rifle, but its outdated. Building and maintaining one capable of meeting the requirements you've laid out will be a lot more expensive than an AR10 pattern rifle.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: koz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydra 67</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Probably should mention this will be a duty rifle and in use by the designated marksman... </div></div>

What LE agency is making 1000yd shots? Also you need to consider the over-penetration of a 7.62 round in CQB scenarios. Probably your best bet is a very light weight bullet - Barnes 110gr will still go through a lot of drywall/ wood.

Also you may consider an 18" gun over a 20" gun. </div></div>

The rifle in question is now for standard law enforcement. And 700 yard shots are to be trained with said rifle.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Thank you all for great input, so far AR 10 seems to be the favored choice.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Choose the POF 20" over the M1A...by a country mile. </div></div>

Did you go for two uppers, one long range and the other with short barrel when needed? Or is this pure DMR rifle? (Great looking rifle by the way )
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydra 67</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Choose the POF 20" over the M1A...by a country mile. </div></div>

Did you go for two uppers, one long range and the other with short barrel when needed? Or is this pure DMR rifle? (Great looking rifle by the way )</div></div>

No. If you want a "room clearing" rifle, get a standard AR-15. If you want a long range setup, get an AR-10 or a good bolt rifle.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharfshutze</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread is a bullshit joke!
</div></div>

Then laugh, and move on with your life. Your distasteful comments are not helping anyone.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydra 67</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Choose the POF 20" over the M1A...by a country mile. </div></div>

Did you go for two uppers, one long range and the other with short barrel when needed? Or is this pure DMR rifle? (Great looking rifle by the way )</div></div>

No. If you want a "room clearing" rifle, get a standard AR-15. If you want a long range setup, get an AR-10 or a good bolt rifle. </div></div>

I disagree, i have cleared rooms with 20" AR's before and as it is slightly more difficult, it is just something to get used to (marines do it all the time).No reason to have two guns when you can one flexible
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Well, I shoot my 16" 308 AR at 600 every now and then. 5mils of drop and very consistent.

If you're dead set on POF the 16" version is a good rifle. I've shot it, the LWRC REPR 16 and the LMT MWS and between them it was the most accurate and best velocity.

However if you are open to other rifles look at the GAP 10, Larue OBR and JP rifles.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I shoot my 16" 308 AR at 600 every now and then. 5mils of drop and very consistent.

If you're dead set on POF the 16" version is a good rifle. I've shot it, the LWRC REPR 16 and the LMT MWS and between them it was the most accurate and best velocity.

However if you are open to other rifles look at the GAP 10, Larue OBR and JP rifles. </div></div>

I am most certainly open to other rifles. But i do prefer piston driven AR's.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

1. GAP10
2. LMT MWS
3. Larue OBR
...screw the rest. those three are proven shooters

customer service puts the GAP10 first, availability puts the MWS second, then the OBR which is getting a price increase evidently soon. I have a GAP10 and couldn't be happier but wouldn't piss on any of the three.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1. GAP10
2. LMT MWS
3. Larue OBR
...screw the rest. those three are proven shooters

customer service puts the GAP10 first, availability puts the MWS second, then the OBR which is getting a price increase evidently soon. I have a GAP10 and couldn't be happier but wouldn't piss on any of the three. </div></div>

JP should be on that list as well. They build extremely accurate rifles.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

yeah JP builds nice stuff, i just don't like the style but thats a personal thing no hit on their ability to build a reliable, accurate weapon.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Piston driven for 1000k and CQB?

You need to get out of your mother's basement more often.

killshot is too kind with you, but he has always been the gentleman. Me, not so much.

I really better not get the ban hammer for such a scrotumite thread.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Hydra67,

As you can (plainly) see, everyone is going to have their own personal favorite and reasons as to why you should purchase a certain brand, whether they own it and believe it to be the best, or because that's what everyone else on the board says, or because they read it in some magazine.

The best thing you can do...is do your research. Each of the rifles that have been mentioned in this thread already (POF, GAP, LMT, LWRC, Larue OBR, JP) are proven shooters.

You just have to find one that you like the most, without allowing others to influence your decision.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DavidAR10</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Piston driven for 1000k and CQB?

You need to get out of your mother's basement more often.

killshot is too kind with you, but he has always been the gentleman. Me, not so much.

I really better not get the ban hammer for such a scrotumite thread. </div></div>

Have you EVER done room clearing before? Seen it done better with a 24" 700 then a punk with a SBR AR. I assume you have not.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hydra67,

As you can (plainly) see, everyone is going to have their own personal favorite and reasons as to why you should purchase a certain brand, whether they own it and believe it to be the best, or because that's what everyone else on the board says, or because they read it in some magazine.

The best thing you can do...is do your research. Each of the rifles that have been mentioned in this thread already (POF, GAP, LMT, LWRC, Larue OBR, JP) are proven shooters.

You just have to find one that you like the most, without allowing others to influence your decision. </div></div>

Trust me, i have done a LOT of reading about high end AR10's with hard time seeing a top dog. Seems, as you said, everyone likes the one they own( or wish to own)
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Hydra, you're getting hammered a bit but I'm going lend you my opinion. Take it for what you paid for it.

It's a stupid question.

Now before you get defensive and rattle off a retort let me explain why in a car analogy. Would you go to a car guy and say "I want a car that turns a 10 sec. 1/4 mile and then can also road race? Those two goals are nearly on the other end of the spectrum from each other. Can they be done? Sure, but it's either going to be very expensive or mediocre performance at best. Same thing with room clearing and 1K capability.

The M1A is a great platform in many ways and have put a lot of people in the ground; but it's not accurate. It's not accurate to the standards to which many of us (both military and civilian) deem as accurate. Sure, you can get a NM and trued and custom barrel and yada yada yada, but 9 times out of 10 it wont be close to as accurate as a well built AR10.

So get a good, well built AR10 and leave the M1A to the military guys and collectors.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hydra, you're getting hammered a bit but I'm going lend you my opinion. Take it for what you paid for it.

It's a stupid question.

Now before you get defensive and rattle off a retort let me explain why in a car analogy. Would you go to a car guy and say "I want a car that turns a 10 sec. 1/4 mile and then can also road race? Those two goals are nearly on the other end of the spectrum from each other. Can they be done? Sure, but it's either going to be very expensive or mediocre performance at best. Same thing with room clearing and 1K capability.

The M1A is a great platform in many ways and have put a lot of people in the ground; but it's not accurate. It's not accurate to the standards to which many of us (both military and civilian) deem as accurate. Sure, you can get a NM and trued and custom barrel and yada yada yada, but 9 times out of 10 it wont be close to as accurate as a well built AR10.

So get a good, well built AR10 and leave the M1A to the military guys and collectors. </div></div>

Clearly you know your guns but not tactics. I NEVER said the rifle in question would be the best long range OR urban weapon. Its more import that it can do both well and trust me, the operator can make up for any slack. " The mission dictates the weapon, not the other way around". The fact is we need a rifle for room clearing/ up to 800 yards.

Please tell this group has heard of the DMR idea? Perhaps i would get better general knowledge from a different community. This one is so far mostly disappointing.


P.s. please do not take this as me attacking you. I am just rather disappointed by people that choose to troll, which seems to be a lot here.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1. GAP10
2. LMT MWS
3. Larue OBR
...screw the rest. those three are proven shooters

customer service puts the GAP10 first, availability puts the MWS second, then the OBR which is getting a price increase evidently soon. I have a GAP10 and couldn't be happier but wouldn't piss on any of the three. </div></div>

JP should be on that list as well. They build extremely accurate rifles.

</div></div>

The LMT felt extremely front heavy compared to REPR or POF.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

put iron sights on a gap 10 and try and shoot it at 1000 yards and let us know your results if its better than what an m1a can do and has done for the last 50 years i would be surpised.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

Hydra u r obviously more high speed then us mortals what community are u in?
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hydra u r obviously more high speed then us mortals what community are u in? </div></div>

More "high speed"? Im not exactly what "u r" trying to say. Please elaborate.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

the "recce" rifle is a idea for military that are limited to what they carry. Even at that most military "snipers" i know would never want to do CQC with their long gun. what optic do you plan on running on this 1000 meter gun? even with a back up doctor, RMR, irons, most guns that will put rounds effectively and regularly down range at 1000 are long and awkward for CQC. Since you instantly discounted mike's comments as false and immediately came back with a comeback i ask what are you? swat? mil? LEO? call of duty? the recce idea is awesome for a gun wanting to shoot between 100-4/500 yards in open ground and limited to 1 long gun. if i can i would carry a long gun on my back if i planned on engagements that far and carry somethign smaller more capable of the CQC type role. But what do i know i just stayed at a holiday in express last night.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SS-8541-dono</div><div class="ubbcode-body">put iron sights on a gap 10 and try and shoot it at 1000 yards and let us know your results if its better than what an m1a can do and has done for the last 50 years i would be surpised. </div></div>

You're going to be surprised. Accuracy is accuracy. How is the sight configuration going to make a rifle more accurate?
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydra 67</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hydra u r obviously more high speed then us mortals what community are u in? </div></div>

More "high speed"? Im not exactly what "u r" trying to say. Please elaborate. </div></div>

Apparently you must be in super secret squirrel agency or department with guys who have super awesome room clearing skills and experience. He just wants to know what agency/unit or community you are coming from.

But to also contribute. If your said Agency will be training at 700 yards. a 16 Inch gun will fit that DMR category and be enough to get you where you need to be and have the flexibility moving in and around a house if needed as opposed to a 20 inch SWS.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

dono mike isn't saying it can't be done but historically the m1a takes a LOT more money to be even close to a ar10 that is pulled out of the box for half the cost. the m1a is a battle rifle, it has proven itself as a valid war platform, i carried one i do not discount it but it is not a 3/8moa gun and if you are trying to make it one you are goin to spend some money. ask GAP who built plenty of m1a's which is easier and cheaper to make accurate a ar10 or a m1a? i bet i know the answer.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But what do i know i just stayed at a holiday in express last night. </div></div>

What does being a Barista that trains Beavers have anything to do with tactics or weapons proficiency?
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But what do i know i just stayed at a holiday in express last night. </div></div>

What does being a Barista that trains Beavers have anything to do with tactics or weapons proficiency? </div></div>

nothing like i said, just asking where he gets his .02 from
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the "recce" rifle is a idea for military that are limited to what they carry. Even at that most military "snipers" i know would never want to do CQC with their long gun. what optic do you plan on running on this 1000 meter gun? even with a back up doctor, RMR, irons, most guns that will put rounds effectively and regularly down range at 1000 are long and awkward for CQC. Since you instantly discounted mike's comments as false and immediately came back with a comeback i ask what are you? swat? mil? LEO? call of duty? the recce idea is awesome for a gun wanting to shoot between 100-4/500 yards in open ground and limited to 1 long gun. if i can i would carry a long gun on my back if i planned on engagements that far and carry somethign smaller more capable of the CQC type role. But what do i know i just stayed at a holiday in express last night. </div></div>

The rifle in question is for naval use. More specifically providing over watch for the boarding team then joining the bording team in the rear of the stack. Expected engagement ranges from 3-500yards ( tanker ships are very large and shots from heli) thus the need for range. I believe that explains the weapons AOE.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydra 67</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the "recce" rifle is a idea for military that are limited to what they carry. Even at that most military "snipers" i know would never want to do CQC with their long gun. what optic do you plan on running on this 1000 meter gun? even with a back up doctor, RMR, irons, most guns that will put rounds effectively and regularly down range at 1000 are long and awkward for CQC. Since you instantly discounted mike's comments as false and immediately came back with a comeback i ask what are you? swat? mil? LEO? call of duty? the recce idea is awesome for a gun wanting to shoot between 100-4/500 yards in open ground and limited to 1 long gun. if i can i would carry a long gun on my back if i planned on engagements that far and carry somethign smaller more capable of the CQC type role. But what do i know i just stayed at a holiday in express last night. </div></div>

The rifle in question is for naval use. More specifically providing over watch for the boarding team then joining the bording team in the rear of the stack. Expected engagement ranges from 3-500yards ( tanker ships are very large and shots from heli) thus the need for range. I believe that explains the weapons AOE.
</div></div>

Your trying to argue with Joe and it's in regards to naval use... you're fucked... just sayin...

YG6vv.gif
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

yep i'm curious how you'll be doin said overwatch? from helo? then you'll have a hard time getting in the stack. or from a elevated position? if thats the case buy a 8" 300blk and run that and sling the long gun. i would never in a million years do clearence on a ship with a freaking long gun. you are insane.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

The reason the m1a was thrown into the mix is, as stated before, it has a very powerful fan base as its my job as a intelligent being to understand why and choose the rifle tool for the job.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here ya go
d819c3fc.jpg
</div></div>

Joe, you told me you'd never post that pic of me. Damnit, now my cover is blown.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

I've shot a fair amount of F class and have seen plenty of guys with raced out AR's shooting good scores. Never an M1A though. Even service rifle is now dominated by AR rifles.

M1A is a good gun but when compared to the AR platform in the context of target shooting/competition it falls short in dollar+effort=reward.
 
Re: AR 10 VS M1A EBR

hydra it has a following because it is used in teh military like all military guns. i am building one too, but i know what it is and what it isn't and i am not looking for 1/4moa out of it.

you are asking us to give you a perfect situation it doesn't exist for what you are asking. grab a nice pistol and jump in teh stack. use a mp5k, a ump, a SBR. fuck clearing a ship with a long gun, any type.
 
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