ar-500 target, is this normal

[Captain Moroni]

FIRST I'm not here to bash the guy I got this target from, I would and plan on buying more from him.

Is it normal for AR-500 to 1) bend when shot with a .308 and 6.5x47 at 300+ yards 2) is it a fluke that a 6.5x47 shooting a 123gr Amax @2800 went through it at 300 yards. Where the hole is is where the T post mount was welded to the back. The weld might be the week link here, I just thought it odd that after thousands of rounds on this target one goes through. Also I'm guessing that the bending is what caused the weld on the back to break loose.

Heres some picks for your viewing pleasure.

 

[Iggy]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

I think it might have been weakened by the weld, but why would it bend that much too?

 

[AnschutzNerd]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

The final pic shows poor weld penetration on the square tube.

The fact that a bullet made it through at the point of a weld tells me: Do not weld to AR-500 targets. Incredibly hard material made brittle by the weldment.

The bend? No easy explanation for that without seeing how the target is affixed.

Now for the good part. You hit the target at 300!

Good Shooting,

AnschutzNerd

 

[CleanMoostang]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

I have 3/8'' AR500 steel and started out shooting it with my PSL 7.62x54r at 100-400 yards, barely made any indention's on it.

Here lately I have been using the same steel for my Rem700 308, and it makes even less of a dent on it at 100-500 yards.

Granted, I am shooting factory 150gr ammo, but gah, your melting the stuff. Are you sure its REAL ar500?

 

[Captain Moroni]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AnschutzNerd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The final pic shows poor weld penetration on the square tube.

The fact that a bullet made it through at the point of a weld tells me: Do not weld to AR-500 targets. Incredibly hard material made brittle by the weldment.

The bend? No easy explanation for that without seeing how the target is affixed.

Now for the good part. You hit the target at 300!

Good Shooting,

AnschutzNerd </div></div>

Ya at that range that little 6.5 is just about out of gas

I had it hung on a T post. It kind of surprised me that it bent, there was enough wobble in it that it should dissipate plenty of energy.

 

[ARsR4ME]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

The welding probably screwed the plate up. Remember AR 500 is NOT bullet proof plate, it's abrasion resistant plate, hence the (ar). It is hardened to a bridel hardness of 450-500, when you heat the metal up by welding it you take away the hardness. Useing a hole and bolt is a better way to hang your targets.

 

[i_rep]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

Busted several AR500's last Sat with my 6.5x47, 123 Scenars, zero problems....did not affect the plates at all.

The weld caused the problem.....They need to be attached using a hole from made when it was cut on a Plasma or Waterjet and then thru bolted.

IMHO

 

[beanland]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

I have over 40 ar 500 targets on t-post with square tubing welded to the back of them. They get shot with 6.5x47's , 6.5x284's, and 308's all the time and have never shot through one or even put a dent in one.

 

[xdeano]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

Just hung a few for a buddy last week. We used 3/8" cable, cheap and easy to hang.

What the cable or chain does for the target makes it a free hanging target instead of a solid surface to strike against.

It's all physics on the plate bending. This is more than likely forces being applied the plate. If you have a static plate it's going to take more of the brunt of the energy than a plate that's allowed to move. So instead of taking 70% of the energy it's cut down to maybe 40% because the applied force is changed from potential energy to kinetic energy upon impact and then changed back to potential energy of the plate moving and the fragments moving off in many directions. If the plate is unable to move that energy has to be transferred to the plate.

So lesson learned by this; is affix targets using a free hanging method over a static method.

xdeano

by the way the numbers I pulled out of my ass.

 

[BK7saum]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

My experience is that Ar 500 targets bend especially the larger plates and silhouettes. Periodically I have to turn them and shoot the other side a while. I have always read that you should never weld ar500. That it changes the properties of the steel. The fact that the target is otherwise completely undamaged except the hole along the weld illustrates this. The hole didn't flow like mild steel but did shear. I hang all my targets to allow energy to be expended or diverted by a swinging target.

I think what you have is a combination of a weld affecting the steel plus a solid support that facilitated the shear hole created by the bullet.

 

[Early Cuyler]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

I think BLK7 is right. The heat from the welding probably changed the material properties of the steel making it softer. One way to harden it back up is to douse it with water after welding. This will however make everything more brittle, but harder.

Honestly, I'd remount the AR500 plate to a hanging stand. This way the plate can move freely and some of the energy by the plate movement (try punching through a piece of paper holding it with one hand on top and hanging vs someone holding 2 sides so that it can't move).

But if you're dead set on repairing the rig you have, I'd grind out and reweld at a higher amperage and douse it with water. With the weld failing like that it seem to me you're not getting good enough fusion which means it isn't hot enough or you're going too fast. The weld profile looks good so that rules out too fast (unless your wire feed rate is really high).

Hope this helps

 

[LVshooter]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

Thats some pretty serious bending. I use 3/8" AR500 targets in my matches(300 yards and further, with welded attachments) that we have been using for several years and have never seen anything like this. I have seen one target that had a hole punched through it. It was 1/2" thickness AR500 and the hole was nowhere near a weld. The target had hundreds of round on it and I don't know the reason for the hole , Mabey an inpurity in the steel. Also I don't think it makes a difference if the target is fixed or can move, the bullet has done whatever damage it is going to do before the target has a chance to move.
Just my thoughts

 

[KYS]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

High heat and AR500 are not friends. Welding the back of that plate probably weakened it some and that was just the round that did the final damage.

Have your targets cut by waterjet if you can. There are dealers here that offer that.

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

If you have to weld it do it like you would a thin metal. Short welds, with plenty of cooling time between the welds. Also if your trying to harden steel used motor oil is what does that best.

 

[bailey1474]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beanland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have over 40 ar 500 targets on t-post with square tubing welded to the back of them. They get shot with 6.5x47's , 6.5x284's, and 308's all the time and have never shot through one or even put a dent in one. </div></div>

Hey Jon, you gotta hit them first

 

[KYS]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Moroni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

this is an obvious sign of your weld not penetrating. your settings must have been off

 

[beanland]

Re: ar-500 target, is this normal

Yea, no shit BJ