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AR as primary

bf2wesley

Private
Minuteman
Sep 16, 2011
6
0
33
VA
Disclaimer: Mods, if I posted this in the wrong place, I apologize, please move it or direct me to the appropriate place, thank you. Also, this is going to be a very long, detailed, and probably confusing post. I’ll do my best to be succinct and lucid; however there is a lot to cover …

So a little background: towards the goal of a complete tool kit of firearms, my current way-points are to get (at a minimum) a 9mm fighting pistol (full size Smith and Wesson M&P), then an AR15 carbine (build-it-myself), then a 12 gauge semi-auto shotgun (Benelli M2 or M4), then an accurate .308 battle rifle (several many good options here, I’m leaning toward another build-it-myself), then a .338 bolt gun (DTA SRS), and finally a .22 (or .17 HMR) rifle (Volquartsen semi-auto); that covers just about all the bases and everything after that is gravy (useful and awesome, for sure, but still gravy methinks). Anyway, I have spent months (quite literally) researching, studying, and reading up on these choices, and I think I am just about ready to get started on the AR build; this post and y’alls responses are going to be my plan’s “press check,” so to speak. I will acquire the pistol, carbine, and shotgun by July 1 of this year, the battle rifle, bolt gun, and rimfire guns are after that (in that order too). I’m also going to include much of the gear and many of the gadgets that will go along with the guns, as they contribute to and complement each other to create a comprehensive and thorough system.
Before I begin, I’d like to lay out my philosophy on armor, kit, weapons, etc. THEY ARE A SYSTEM:
(tier 1) Worn every day, everywhere. Incorporates EDC (light, knife, multi-tool, etc), CCW weapon, at least 1 extra magazine for CCW weapon, and soft armor. Concealable and simple; it might also include a daypack with additional EDC supplies (here is a great post on the different layers of EDC).

(tier 1+) Worn if you have time, adds capability and modularity over tier 1, is also more overt, an "active shooter" rig; includes a long gun (read "trunk gun" or "go to gun"), ammo for long gun, and a med kit. A couple of good options here: a "war belt;" one would just pull the handgun and mags off their normal belt, transfer the handgun to the dedicated holster on the war belt, sling the long gun, and be off; this is good for people who want to draw from the hip regardless of rifle or pistol, although it is slightly more time consuming. Or a chest rig that one just throws on, slings the long gun, and goes, this is especially good for folks who always practice reloading from a chest rig. Another option is to always carry long gun ammo in your tier 1 setup (all you'd have to do is sling the long gun, although it’s probably inefficient/uncomfortable/less concealable to always carry long gun mags without a long gun …); or one could have long gun ammo holsters that attach quickly to a belt, although this may sacrifice some retention. The fastest, simplest option I think (although probably the least forgiving/resilient) is to have a long gun with on-board ammo storage (either a redi-mag for a carbine or a sidesaddle for a shotgun) and just grab the gun and run.

(tier 2) Includes additional protection over tiers 1 and 1+, can be worn in conjunction with tier 1 or tier 1+. Still an "active shooter" kit, my SWAG is it would take under two minutes to go from tier 1 (CCW + EDC) to tier 2 if everything was staged properly and the transition was practiced every occasionally. Includes a basic plate carrier with level III or IV plates (if all the plates were stand alone, then one could completely forego any soft-armor, reducing weight; one could even leave out the side plates and use ultra-light level III front and rear plates, which in a Crye JPC would weigh something like 7.5 lbs TOTAL. This may be the best option for good protection and absolutely minimal weight), more ammo for both weapon systems, a dedicated light, knife, med kit, and multi-tool (as one could wear this w/o their EDC, the rig needs to incorporate those items, and redundancy is good). It could possibly include a hydration source and a helmet (OPS-CORE BUMP) as well (an option here, especially for a civilian concerned about the overly litigious society we live in, would be to have the helmet and attach a video camera; if one turned on the camera as one donned the gear, it would record the proceedings, which could be very valuable in court after the fact).

(tier 2+) The maximum (in terms of armor and protection) I think a civilian needs, and suffices for 90% or more of what an LEO or soldier needs too (complete and total postulation, but what I’ve read, heard, and inferred supports my statement); has the ideal combination of mobility, protection, and capability as far I can tell. Includes everything from tier 2, but adds rifle rated side plates (or not, personal preference). Does include a "war belt," does includes a non-ballistic helmet (or possibly a ballistic one, depending on personal preference), does include a hydration source, might include some comms capability, and might include night vision capabilities (both of the previous are not really an issue for civilians, which is why I placed it on tier 2+ instead of 2).

(tier 2 1/2) Identical to tier 2 (or 2+), but adds a small pack of some kind to include additional supplies (more medical stuff, more ammo, pack could be made a BOB by including food, water, and some other basics).
(tier 3) This is what you'd wear if you KNEW you were going into a fight and you valued protection over mobility (think convoy guards; or soldiers performing a high-risk, short duration mission; or a SWAT team responding to an armed, barricaded suspect, etc). Includes a full vest (think Crye CPC or the Interceptor vest), shoulder, side, and groin protection, a ballistic helmet, lots of ammo for both primary and secondary weapons, dedicated light, knife, multi-tool, med kit, etc. I think this is best left to SWAT teams and the military, but if anyone already has all of tiers 1 through 2 1/2, and you have a desire and the bucks to back it up, then I say go for it

(tier 3+) Identical to tier 3, but includes a pack for carrying even MORE stuff

(tier 4) Think the juggernauts from Modern Warfare


Here’s the nitty gritty:

The pistol and accoutrements:
-Apex Extractor -Apex RAM -Surefire X300
-Boresight Solutions grip work (Per Chris Costa’s recommendation)
-Warren Tactical sights -Silencerco Osprey
-Storm Lake threaded barrel (if anyone knows of a better one, I’m all for it)
-Kydex IWB/OWB (I haven’t decided which maker yet: Raven, Praetor Defense, Cane & Derby, etc) holster, with a 2 mag carrier on my reaction (left) side.

The carbine and accoutrements (This is where I’d most appreciate comments):
-Mega Arms MTS billet rifle length upper receiver (eventually, with part of the upper rail cut out for the Switchblock)
-AXTS AX556 ambidextrous billet lower receiver
- Spike’s Tactical Enhanced LPK
-Timney skelontized AR trigger w/ 4.5 lb pull
-BCM 410 stainless steel 5.56 NATO 16" 1:8 mid-length gas, button rifled, “mid-weight” contour with a Ionbond finish OR Daniel Defense 4150 chrome moly vanadium 5.56 NATO 16” 1:7 mid-length gas, cold hammer forged, government contour with a manganese phosphate finish and chrome lined bore. (All of these would be reprofiled by ADCO to a lightweight profile; I’ll need the .750 diameter under the gasblock for when I eventually get Switchblock, hence all mid-weight barrels. Or should I just get the DD lightweight barrel and the .650 low-profile gasblock and call it good?)
-Battle Arms Development - Ambidextrous Safety Selector – Short Throw
-BHI enhanced M4 SPOMOD Bolt upgrade kit
-IKICKHIPPIES SLAP plate
-DD M16 BCG complete (ought I to get a Young Manufacturing chromed BCG or a Fail-Zero BCG instead?)
- LaRue Tactical Aimpoint Micro mount, LT751 -Enidine AR-RESTOR buffer
-DD .750 Low-profile gas block -BMC Gunfighter charging handle, Mod 4
-BCM mid-length gas tube -Magpul MIAD grip
-POF Carbine buffer tube -Magpul STR (mil-spec)
-Troy Industries’ tritium Di-Optic Aperture folding rear sight
-Troy Industries’ HK style tritium folding front sight
-AAC Brakeout 51T compensator -Magpul MS3 sling
-Magpul AFG -Aimpoint Micro T-1
-Surefire M952v with Z41 tail cap -Magpul rail ladders
-a lot of PMAGs with Ranger plates
OK, so using Vuurwapen blog’s awesome AR weight calculator, I figure my rifle will be just over 8 lbs loaded with a 30 rd Pmag (without any of the below options). The below options are things I would love to get, and eventually will, but are not necessary right now:
-AAC M4-2000 suppressor (will hanging a suppressor on the end of a lightweight barrel have any ill effects? Ought I to go with a heavier profile to add stiffness?)
-Insight ATPIAL
-Larue Tactical SPR/M4 Mount QD LT104
-S&B 1.1–4 x 20 Short Dot with locking turrets
-Adam’s Arms piston kit
-FRS anti carrier tilt buffer (to complement the above piston kit)
- Noveske Switchblock (I know it’s a clamp-on, so to be safe, I’ll have ADCO drill a taper pin hole and pin it, it will also be well shrouded by the rail)
I’m also interested in having all the plastic (hopefully including the Pmags, that would be pretty awesome) done in Multicam water transfer by CRC and an engraving on the lower done by Orion Arms Custom Engraving (reading “This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ”), but that’s just for gits and shiggles and not at all essential.

The shotgun and accoutrements:
-Benelli M2 or M4 (leaning toward M4, so I’ll go with that for the below)
-Aimpoint Micro T1 -Mesa Tactical Urbino stock
-Nordic Component speed button
-Mesa tactical Sureshell shell carrier (for the Urbino stock)
-Freedom Fighter Tactical (FFT) full length titanium magazine tube
-FFT ½” titanium charging handle -FFT green aluminum follower
-FFT Wolff shotgun spring -FFT forend
-LaRue Tactical Aimpoint Micro mount, LT751
-Mesa Tactical Sureshell shell carrier (receiver mount)
-CDM MTR (barrel magazine clamp) light and sling mount
-Magpul MS3 sling -Surefire X300 -Benelli tritium ghost ring sights

Battle rifle, bolt gun, and rimfire:
-The battle rifle will probably be built around a Mega MA-TEN monolithic upper and AXTS AX762 lower, with a Magpul PRS, Timney AR-10 trigger, a Bartlein 16” barrel, and an S&B 3-12 x 50 PMII Military (with the illuminated P-3 reticule).
-The bolt gun will probably be a DTA SRS with a .308 kit first, followed by a .338 kit; it will stand on and Atlas bi-pod and wear a S&B 5-25 x 56 PMII LP (with the illuminated P-3 reticule), I’d also like to get the Covert conversions eventually.
-The rimfire will be a Volquartsen lightweight in either .22 or .17 HMR (leaning toward the .17 HMR) wearing a S&B 1.5-6 x 42 Classic variable power or a S&B 1.1–4 x 20 Short Dot with locking turrets (decisions decisions).


Gear and kit:
So now to the kit itself (in no particular order):
-my EDC: Surefire Aviator or Vampire, Strider SMF or Chris Reeve Sebenza or Emerson CQC-15, Leatherman Charge TTI, either a Suunto X-Lander (military version) or an IWC Spitfire Chronograph, a Hinderer titanium pen or a Zebra Sharbo X CB8 (or eventually, when I can’t think of anything else useful to buy, a Mont-Blanc), Rotring 800 drafting pencil, an Exotac nanostriker, an Exotac matchcap (with two matches, two ibuprofen, and $100 cash inside), keys (with a tritium key fob) an Exotac titanium water bottle, a small Saddleback leather wallet (with a Gorilla-tape wrapped credit card, Bogota lock picks, and a Serepick file inside), an Ironkey (with important documents, an independent OS, and encryption software on it), and 550 cord EVERYWHERE. Most, if not all of this will be on my person, but the stuff that isn’t will be in a ITS Tactical discreet messenger bag or a GORUCK GR1.
-My CCW- the aforementioned pistol (with 2 extra magazines) and (most of the time) the below soft armor, and (most of the time) my fixed blade Strider (can’t remember the model, it’s a tanto with a ~4” blade).
-Level IIIA soft armor, needs to be concealable (I’d like the DiamondBack Tactical Synergy set-up, but I don’t know how it fared in the FBI test protocol, which matters because the NIJ protocol pretty much stinks)
-Level III plates by Armored Mobility Inc (ideally, I’d like two sets of their plates, the first being the TAC3S for general use, and then the SAPI3 for when I’m going to be wearing it for a LONG time)
-Protech Tactical PLT-III-2120-6x6 Mini Side Plate -Crye Precision JPC
-One of these mag holders (will try corresponding pistol mag pouches too): HSGI tacos, BFG ten-speed, Esstac KYWI, Emdom-MM IAP, ITW FastMag, and the USGG 5th gen mag pouches. I plan on buying one of each, figuring out which I like and why, writing a comprehensive, pic intensive review, and then going to all of the same one.
-Crye Precision Low-Profile Blast Belt -Emdom-MM Battle Suspenders
-Emdom hydration carrier -215 Gear Ultimate Rigger’s Belt
-MSM Monkey Combat admin pouch -Source Hydration 3 liter bladder
-Revision Sawflys (shooter’s kit) or Exoshield -Sordin Supreme Pro-X
-Westone custom in-ear hearing protection, style 47 (I also do construction, and these would be what I would use for that; definitely a “cry once” purchase)
-Crye Precision G3 Combat Pants (with knee pads)
- Crye Precision G3 Combat Shirt (with elbow pads)
-Magnum Sidewinder HPI boots -GR Tac baseball cap
-Just about every piece of unmentioned clothing (socks, sniffle gear, etc) by Massif, so it’s FR
-Surefire Aviator or Vampire (depending on what I’m doing) -Strider fixed blade
-ITS Tactical ETA kit in their new pouch -MOJO shears -SOF-T tourniquet


Now, I’d like to take a moment and cover a few likely responses:
First, I believe in software over hardware, and am aggressively pursuing training with all of these weapons, including classes of Magpul/Gunsite/Tactical Response caliber; so much so that at least once a week I drive 2 hours (each way) to the closest range that will allow me to train realistically (I also RSO there).
Second, I realize that I have picked some (OK, a lot of) very expensive parts and components, and could get almost the same level of performance out of cheaper options (or the same performance from a factory gun for less money), but I’m willing to spend the money, because hardware DOES matter (I agree with rob_s’s excellent articles on this subject), and what better way to begin to master my weapon (i.e. improve software) than by building it myself?
Third, I am going to buy these parts over the course of the next 6 months, as my second job’s income is primarily dedicated to this, so it’s not going to be a single large purchase. And many of the things won’t be bought in that time frame, the S&B Short dot for example.
Fourth, some of the above items require gunsmith level installation and I will let a gunsmith do it (as long as I get to watch, lol), and I will have the whole thing checked by an experienced shooter before I fire it (I’ve never built a rifle before, so I don’t want to blow the side of my face off).
Fifth, some of the above accessories/items (like the ATPIAL, FR gear by Massif, etc) cannot even loosely be considered “standard” or “normal” equipment for a civilian, and one might therefore ask why I want them; I want them because I am a martial person, I believe it is all but my as a citizen and not a subject to be capable of defending myself and my rights against enemies both foreign and domestic, it is my hobby, and it’s just plain cool.
 
Re: AR as primary

Skimmed over it and basically picked up that you are a civilian that is planning on going out well armed while wearing body armor, everyday. Not a recommended course of action.
 
Re: AR as primary

If you have to walk out the door wearing body armor and all the weapons you really need to change neighborhoods dude.....wtf
 
Re: AR as primary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSAR FE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OP, are you a PJ? </div></div>

... or in them?
 
Re: AR as primary

In all seriousness, how old are you? It's not the answer you want to hear, but the .22 is what you should be starting off with; I've never met anyone who hadn't wished they started on a .22, is now happy they started with a .22 because they can actually hit what they aim at, or are as incompetent with firearms as the average video gamer who is misled as to the correct operation of firearms. I can appreciate that you are quite articulate and are likely intelligent and are simply exercising your right as an American to do whatever the fuck you feel like. Assuming your financial ability to procure what you've listed is validated I would suggest saving that money for financial security in the near uncertain future and until you've been around the block long enough to be objective about what will be most comfortable/useful for you personally. There are a lot of little things you would never think about, even if you go above and beyond with your homework, things that are personal preferences. I understand the buy once, cry once idea of buying high quality from the start and never having to upgrade, but it is most often better to learn cheaply then buy what you need, it's only practical.
 
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Re: AR as primary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rideHPD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Assuming your financial ability to procure what you've listed is validated <span style="color: #FF0000">I would suggest saving that money for financial security in the near uncertain future</span> and until you've been around the block long enough to be objective about what will be most comfortable/useful for you personally.</div></div>

+1000000000
 
Re: AR as primary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSAR FE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OP, are you a PJ? </div></div>just wondering,what in that post makes you think he's a PJ?
 
Re: AR as primary

Does the first half of the novel suggest you will be running an Adams Arms piston kit and a Noveske Switchblock?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">-Adam’s Arms piston kit
-FRS anti carrier tilt buffer (to complement the above piston kit)
- Noveske Switchblock (I know it’s a clamp-on, so to be safe, I’ll have ADCO drill a taper pin hole and pin it, it will also be well shrouded by the rail)</div></div>

Looks like it does.
 
Re: AR as primary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnyDL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSAR FE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OP, are you a PJ? </div></div>just wondering,what in that post makes you think he's a PJ? </div></div>

His sig is their motto.
 
Re: AR as primary

Its actually the motto for Combat Search and Rescue (CSAR) as a whole. I asked because different things in his post, such as mentioning some standard issue items in the CSAR community (massif gear, ect.) and his sig would lead me to believe he is a J, but there are other things in his post that make him sound like he may be a civilian. I am just curious.
 
Re: AR as primary

I think he read and re-read so much crap he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground or which way is pointing up.

barfly2wesley,

SLOW DOWN! Start with finding what works for you. Start with what you can afford then as you see a need to upgrade, do so. According to the latest theology reports you have at least until the end of this year to get this figured out.

A .22 is not a bad place to start. Same with a pistol. Once you've satisfied yourself about how you can do with it, then a bolt action rifle is my next suggestion. Get one that can, and learn to shoot it, as far as you can see. Get your elevation calls down in various altitudes (if you can). And, the whole time you are doing that learn what the wind is doing to your bullets. If you don't understand it, ask a question here or get a book on long range shooting.
An AR is next on my list. If we still use the 5.56, then get one of those. A bolt gun goes from zero to as far as you can see. An AR, unless a long range round, is short to medium range.

The shotgun? Save your money and buy a nice one that fits so you can use it for bird hunting. The biggest waste of time/energy IMO is using a shotgun for home defense because you are going to have to switch to pistol or rifle anyway.
That is, unless you have 3-gun aspirations. Then get a defensive shotgun.

Once you've satisfied yourself that you can do what you need to with a .22 pistol, move up to the caliber of your choice. I like .40's and .45's. I'm not big on 9mm's. Find what fits your hand and has a decent rep as far as reliability. I don't give a damn if the pistol can shoot bullseyes at 50 yds. I need to know it will pump out 2-3 "center-mass" everytime.
 
Re: AR as primary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSAR FE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its actually the motto for Combat Search and Rescue (CSAR) as a whole. I asked because different things in his post, such as mentioning some standard issue items in the CSAR community (massif gear, ect.) and his sig would lead me to believe he is a J, but there are other things in his post that make him sound like he may be a civilian. I am just curious. </div></div>rock on,just saw his sig line at bottom.would be curious to know my self.
 
Re: AR as primary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am interested in seeing where this thread goes... </div></div>

It started on an interesting note.

C_K
 
Re: AR as primary

The last few lines of the post lead me to believe he is a civilian.

That is alot of shit. I have no idea what situation you picture finding yourself in that you would possibly need all that. I am currently deployed to Afghanistan, and I dont even have half of that. Your reference to Call of Duty when describing your envisioned armor system is a little strange. I did not see any kind of helmet on your list. If you feel the need to have fire-retardent clothing and level III hard plates, I think you should also have a helmet. If you are going to possibly be engulfed in flames and under fire, you wont regret the purchase, trust me on that.

I would also reccomend you get a vehicle with a spacious interior, because you are not goint to fit into a honda civic wearing all that, and you definately are not walking very far in it.

Good luck.
 
Re: AR as primary

On closer inspection, I do see that you included a helmet. Dont cut costs here, you are going to need it.
 
Re: AR as primary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Needs more wheelbarrow and barkless chihuahua. </div></div>

Ho lee shit is that funny!
 
Re: AR as primary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bf2wesley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Disclaimer: Mods, if I posted this in the wrong place, I apologize, please move it or direct me to the appropriate place, thank you. Also, this is going to be a very long, detailed, and probably confusing post. I’ll do my best to be succinct and lucid; however there is a lot to cover …

So a little background: towards the goal of a complete tool kit of firearms, my current way-points are to get (at a minimum) a 9mm fighting pistol (full size Smith and Wesson M&P), then an AR15 carbine (build-it-myself), then a 12 gauge semi-auto shotgun (Benelli M2 or M4), then an accurate .308 battle rifle (several many good options here, I’m leaning toward another build-it-myself), then a .338 bolt gun (DTA SRS), and finally a .22 (or .17 HMR) rifle (Volquartsen semi-auto); that covers just about all the bases and everything after that is gravy (useful and awesome, for sure, but still gravy methinks). Anyway, I have spent months (quite literally) researching, studying, and reading up on these choices, and I think I am just about ready to get started on the AR build; this post and y’alls responses are going to be my plan’s “press check,” so to speak. I will acquire the pistol, carbine, and shotgun by July 1 of this year, the battle rifle, bolt gun, and rimfire guns are after that (in that order too). I’m also going to include much of the gear and many of the gadgets that will go along with the guns, as they contribute to and complement each other to create a comprehensive and thorough system.
Before I begin, I’d like to lay out my philosophy on armor, kit, weapons, etc. THEY ARE A SYSTEM:
(tier 1) Worn every day, everywhere. Incorporates EDC (light, knife, multi-tool, etc), CCW weapon, at least 1 extra magazine for CCW weapon, and soft armor. Concealable and simple; it might also include a daypack with additional EDC supplies (here is a great post on the different layers of EDC).

(tier 1+) Worn if you have time, adds capability and modularity over tier 1, is also more overt, an "active shooter" rig; includes a long gun (read "trunk gun" or "go to gun"), ammo for long gun, and a med kit. A couple of good options here: a "war belt;" one would just pull the handgun and mags off their normal belt, transfer the handgun to the dedicated holster on the war belt, sling the long gun, and be off; this is good for people who want to draw from the hip regardless of rifle or pistol, although it is slightly more time consuming. Or a chest rig that one just throws on, slings the long gun, and goes, this is especially good for folks who always practice reloading from a chest rig. Another option is to always carry long gun ammo in your tier 1 setup (all you'd have to do is sling the long gun, although it’s probably inefficient/uncomfortable/less concealable to always carry long gun mags without a long gun …); or one could have long gun ammo holsters that attach quickly to a belt, although this may sacrifice some retention. The fastest, simplest option I think (although probably the least forgiving/resilient) is to have a long gun with on-board ammo storage (either a redi-mag for a carbine or a sidesaddle for a shotgun) and just grab the gun and run.

(tier 2) Includes additional protection over tiers 1 and 1+, can be worn in conjunction with tier 1 or tier 1+. Still an "active shooter" kit, my SWAG is it would take under two minutes to go from tier 1 (CCW + EDC) to tier 2 if everything was staged properly and the transition was practiced every occasionally. Includes a basic plate carrier with level III or IV plates (if all the plates were stand alone, then one could completely forego any soft-armor, reducing weight; one could even leave out the side plates and use ultra-light level III front and rear plates, which in a Crye JPC would weigh something like 7.5 lbs TOTAL. This may be the best option for good protection and absolutely minimal weight), more ammo for both weapon systems, a dedicated light, knife, med kit, and multi-tool (as one could wear this w/o their EDC, the rig needs to incorporate those items, and redundancy is good). It could possibly include a hydration source and a helmet (OPS-CORE BUMP) as well (an option here, especially for a civilian concerned about the overly litigious society we live in, would be to have the helmet and attach a video camera; if one turned on the camera as one donned the gear, it would record the proceedings, which could be very valuable in court after the fact).

(tier 2+) The maximum (in terms of armor and protection) I think a civilian needs, and suffices for 90% or more of what an LEO or soldier needs too (complete and total postulation, but what I’ve read, heard, and inferred supports my statement); has the ideal combination of mobility, protection, and capability as far I can tell. Includes everything from tier 2, but adds rifle rated side plates (or not, personal preference). Does include a "war belt," does includes a non-ballistic helmet (or possibly a ballistic one, depending on personal preference), does include a hydration source, might include some comms capability, and might include night vision capabilities (both of the previous are not really an issue for civilians, which is why I placed it on tier 2+ instead of 2).

(tier 2 1/2) Identical to tier 2 (or 2+), but adds a small pack of some kind to include additional supplies (more medical stuff, more ammo, pack could be made a BOB by including food, water, and some other basics).
(tier 3) This is what you'd wear if you KNEW you were going into a fight and you valued protection over mobility (think convoy guards; or soldiers performing a high-risk, short duration mission; or a SWAT team responding to an armed, barricaded suspect, etc). Includes a full vest (think Crye CPC or the Interceptor vest), shoulder, side, and groin protection, a ballistic helmet, lots of ammo for both primary and secondary weapons, dedicated light, knife, multi-tool, med kit, etc. I think this is best left to SWAT teams and the military, but if anyone already has all of tiers 1 through 2 1/2, and you have a desire and the bucks to back it up, then I say go for it

(tier 3+) Identical to tier 3, but includes a pack for carrying even MORE stuff

(tier 4) Think the juggernauts from Modern Warfare


Here’s the nitty gritty:

The pistol and accoutrements:
-Apex Extractor -Apex RAM -Surefire X300
-Boresight Solutions grip work (Per Chris Costa’s recommendation)
-Warren Tactical sights -Silencerco Osprey
-Storm Lake threaded barrel (if anyone knows of a better one, I’m all for it)
-Kydex IWB/OWB (I haven’t decided which maker yet: Raven, Praetor Defense, Cane & Derby, etc) holster, with a 2 mag carrier on my reaction (left) side.

The carbine and accoutrements (This is where I’d most appreciate comments):
-Mega Arms MTS billet rifle length upper receiver (eventually, with part of the upper rail cut out for the Switchblock)
-AXTS AX556 ambidextrous billet lower receiver
- Spike’s Tactical Enhanced LPK
-Timney skelontized AR trigger w/ 4.5 lb pull
-BCM 410 stainless steel 5.56 NATO 16" 1:8 mid-length gas, button rifled, “mid-weight” contour with a Ionbond finish OR Daniel Defense 4150 chrome moly vanadium 5.56 NATO 16” 1:7 mid-length gas, cold hammer forged, government contour with a manganese phosphate finish and chrome lined bore. (All of these would be reprofiled by ADCO to a lightweight profile; I’ll need the .750 diameter under the gasblock for when I eventually get Switchblock, hence all mid-weight barrels. Or should I just get the DD lightweight barrel and the .650 low-profile gasblock and call it good?)
-Battle Arms Development - Ambidextrous Safety Selector – Short Throw
-BHI enhanced M4 SPOMOD Bolt upgrade kit
-IKICKHIPPIES SLAP plate
-DD M16 BCG complete (ought I to get a Young Manufacturing chromed BCG or a Fail-Zero BCG instead?)
- LaRue Tactical Aimpoint Micro mount, LT751 -Enidine AR-RESTOR buffer
-DD .750 Low-profile gas block -BMC Gunfighter charging handle, Mod 4
-BCM mid-length gas tube -Magpul MIAD grip
-POF Carbine buffer tube -Magpul STR (mil-spec)
-Troy Industries’ tritium Di-Optic Aperture folding rear sight
-Troy Industries’ HK style tritium folding front sight
-AAC Brakeout 51T compensator -Magpul MS3 sling
-Magpul AFG -Aimpoint Micro T-1
-Surefire M952v with Z41 tail cap -Magpul rail ladders
-a lot of PMAGs with Ranger plates
OK, so using Vuurwapen blog’s awesome AR weight calculator, I figure my rifle will be just over 8 lbs loaded with a 30 rd Pmag (without any of the below options). The below options are things I would love to get, and eventually will, but are not necessary right now:
-AAC M4-2000 suppressor (will hanging a suppressor on the end of a lightweight barrel have any ill effects? Ought I to go with a heavier profile to add stiffness?)
-Insight ATPIAL
-Larue Tactical SPR/M4 Mount QD LT104
-S&B 1.1–4 x 20 Short Dot with locking turrets
-Adam’s Arms piston kit
-FRS anti carrier tilt buffer (to complement the above piston kit)
- Noveske Switchblock (I know it’s a clamp-on, so to be safe, I’ll have ADCO drill a taper pin hole and pin it, it will also be well shrouded by the rail)
I’m also interested in having all the plastic (hopefully including the Pmags, that would be pretty awesome) done in Multicam water transfer by CRC and an engraving on the lower done by Orion Arms Custom Engraving (reading “This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. &#924;&#927;&#923;&#937;&#925; &#923;&#913;&#914;&#917;”), but that’s just for gits and shiggles and not at all essential.

The shotgun and accoutrements:
-Benelli M2 or M4 (leaning toward M4, so I’ll go with that for the below)
-Aimpoint Micro T1 -Mesa Tactical Urbino stock
-Nordic Component speed button
-Mesa tactical Sureshell shell carrier (for the Urbino stock)
-Freedom Fighter Tactical (FFT) full length titanium magazine tube
-FFT ½” titanium charging handle -FFT green aluminum follower
-FFT Wolff shotgun spring -FFT forend
-LaRue Tactical Aimpoint Micro mount, LT751
-Mesa Tactical Sureshell shell carrier (receiver mount)
-CDM MTR (barrel magazine clamp) light and sling mount
-Magpul MS3 sling -Surefire X300 -Benelli tritium ghost ring sights

Battle rifle, bolt gun, and rimfire:
-The battle rifle will probably be built around a Mega MA-TEN monolithic upper and AXTS AX762 lower, with a Magpul PRS, Timney AR-10 trigger, a Bartlein 16” barrel, and an S&B 3-12 x 50 PMII Military (with the illuminated P-3 reticule).
-The bolt gun will probably be a DTA SRS with a .308 kit first, followed by a .338 kit; it will stand on and Atlas bi-pod and wear a S&B 5-25 x 56 PMII LP (with the illuminated P-3 reticule), I’d also like to get the Covert conversions eventually.
-The rimfire will be a Volquartsen lightweight in either .22 or .17 HMR (leaning toward the .17 HMR) wearing a S&B 1.5-6 x 42 Classic variable power or a S&B 1.1–4 x 20 Short Dot with locking turrets (decisions decisions).


Gear and kit:
So now to the kit itself (in no particular order):
-my EDC: Surefire Aviator or Vampire, Strider SMF or Chris Reeve Sebenza or Emerson CQC-15, Leatherman Charge TTI, either a Suunto X-Lander (military version) or an IWC Spitfire Chronograph, a Hinderer titanium pen or a Zebra Sharbo X CB8 (or eventually, when I can’t think of anything else useful to buy, a Mont-Blanc), Rotring 800 drafting pencil, an Exotac nanostriker, an Exotac matchcap (with two matches, two ibuprofen, and $100 cash inside), keys (with a tritium key fob) an Exotac titanium water bottle, a small Saddleback leather wallet (with a Gorilla-tape wrapped credit card, Bogota lock picks, and a Serepick file inside), an Ironkey (with important documents, an independent OS, and encryption software on it), and 550 cord EVERYWHERE. Most, if not all of this will be on my person, but the stuff that isn’t will be in a ITS Tactical discreet messenger bag or a GORUCK GR1.
-My CCW- the aforementioned pistol (with 2 extra magazines) and (most of the time) the below soft armor, and (most of the time) my fixed blade Strider (can’t remember the model, it’s a tanto with a ~4” blade).
-Level IIIA soft armor, needs to be concealable (I’d like the DiamondBack Tactical Synergy set-up, but I don’t know how it fared in the FBI test protocol, which matters because the NIJ protocol pretty much stinks)
-Level III plates by Armored Mobility Inc (ideally, I’d like two sets of their plates, the first being the TAC3S for general use, and then the SAPI3 for when I’m going to be wearing it for a LONG time)
-Protech Tactical PLT-III-2120-6x6 Mini Side Plate -Crye Precision JPC
-One of these mag holders (will try corresponding pistol mag pouches too): HSGI tacos, BFG ten-speed, Esstac KYWI, Emdom-MM IAP, ITW FastMag, and the USGG 5th gen mag pouches. I plan on buying one of each, figuring out which I like and why, writing a comprehensive, pic intensive review, and then going to all of the same one.
-Crye Precision Low-Profile Blast Belt -Emdom-MM Battle Suspenders
-Emdom hydration carrier -215 Gear Ultimate Rigger’s Belt
-MSM Monkey Combat admin pouch -Source Hydration 3 liter bladder
-Revision Sawflys (shooter’s kit) or Exoshield -Sordin Supreme Pro-X
-Westone custom in-ear hearing protection, style 47 (I also do construction, and these would be what I would use for that; definitely a “cry once” purchase)
-Crye Precision G3 Combat Pants (with knee pads)
- Crye Precision G3 Combat Shirt (with elbow pads)
-Magnum Sidewinder HPI boots -GR Tac baseball cap
-Just about every piece of unmentioned clothing (socks, sniffle gear, etc) by Massif, so it’s FR
-Surefire Aviator or Vampire (depending on what I’m doing) -Strider fixed blade
-ITS Tactical ETA kit in their new pouch -MOJO shears -SOF-T tourniquet


Now, I’d like to take a moment and cover a few likely responses:
First, I believe in software over hardware, and am aggressively pursuing training with all of these weapons, including classes of Magpul/Gunsite/Tactical Response caliber; so much so that at least once a week I drive 2 hours (each way) to the closest range that will allow me to train realistically (I also RSO there).
Second, I realize that I have picked some (OK, a lot of) very expensive parts and components, and could get almost the same level of performance out of cheaper options (or the same performance from a factory gun for less money), but I’m willing to spend the money, because hardware DOES matter (I agree with rob_s’s excellent articles on this subject), and what better way to begin to master my weapon (i.e. improve software) than by building it myself?
Third, I am going to buy these parts over the course of the next 6 months, as my second job’s income is primarily dedicated to this, so it’s not going to be a single large purchase. And many of the things won’t be bought in that time frame, the S&B Short dot for example.
Fourth, some of the above items require gunsmith level installation and I will let a gunsmith do it (as long as I get to watch, lol), and I will have the whole thing checked by an experienced shooter before I fire it (I’ve never built a rifle before, so I don’t want to blow the side of my face off).
Fifth, some of the above accessories/items (like the ATPIAL, FR gear by Massif, etc) cannot even loosely be considered “standard” or “normal” equipment for a civilian, and one might therefore ask why I want them; I want them because I am a martial person, I believe it is all but my as a citizen and not a subject to be capable of defending myself and my rights against enemies both foreign and domestic, it is my hobby, and it’s just plain cool.
</div></div>

You left out a giant armored vehicle to break through the giant wall of text you posted......
 
Re: AR as primary

confused.gif
 
Re: AR as primary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnyDL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSAR FE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OP, are you a PJ? </div></div>just wondering,what in that post makes you think he's a PJ? </div></div>

110ceau.gif
 
Re: AR as primary

Taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....................G!

I'm getting the popcorn ready. Epic show to follow!!!
 
Re: AR as primary

PM me your contacts and when I drive by Fort Bragg today I will drop it off. SOTIC is always looking for well prepared operators to assist in training SF. Hell, for that matter you may go straight to Delta instructor.


That has to be the most over thought out silliness I have ever read. I think you'll get a more favorable response here:
http://www.callofduty.com/community/mw3/forums/call_of_duty_mw3/cod_mw3_xbox_360
 
Re: AR as primary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am interested in seeing where this thread goes... </div></div>

Sometimes of more interest is the where it began ...

muv3eu.jpg
 
Re: AR as primary

You see, this is the real problem with that MagPul video series.
laugh.gif


Seriously, don't buy weapons. Or, maybe first join the military.

The folks at AR15.com are probably better suited to answering your questions.
 
Re: AR as primary

Wow that is one hell of a list to have made for such little time... do you have any training on any of these? No point getting the 338 or anything close to it untill you can start hitting targets with a 223 or a 308 or 300WM. Start off right and get use to shooting with a specific rifle first and working from there. As for the shotgun i love my Saiga 12.
 
Re: AR as primary

HINT:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bf2wesley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

(tier 4) Think the juggernauts from Modern Warfare

</div></div>

Seriously, it's like every gunforum vomited on one singular post. Unbelievable

To the OP, you ARE the "brown bear" my friend.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/evr_tP9cJWY"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/evr_tP9cJWY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
Re: AR as primary

bf2wesley, you do realize that you cant carry guns like on grand theft auto where they magically appear in your hands and are stored in your magic cornhole right?
 
Re: AR as primary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bf2wesley, you do realize that you cant carry guns like on grand theft auto where they magically appear in your hands and are stored in your magic cornhole right? </div></div>

You can squeeze three or four long guns in one drag bag and attach two MK19 ammo cans to the molle straps filled with loose rounds for every weapon.
 
Re: AR as primary

http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=87769

by bf2wesley » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:12 pm

Hi,
I've been reading the forums for a while now, and figured I should join (actually, I come here so frequently I thought I had already made an account, and I tried logging in, and realized I hadn't made one yet). I came across ZS whilst searching for SHTF med-kits ... let's just say I was impressed with some of the kits I saw. About me, not much, I'm 20, am into prepping, love shooting, and yearn for the day when I get to introduce my FUBAR to a zombie.
Wesleybf2wesley
 
Re: AR as primary

What the hell does "yearn for the day when I get to introduce my FUBAR to a zombie" mean?
 
Re: AR as primary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=87769

by bf2wesley » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:12 pm

Hi,
I've been reading the forums for a while now, and figured I should join (actually, I come here so frequently I thought I had already made an account, and I tried logging in, and realized I hadn't made one yet). I came across ZS whilst searching for SHTF med-kits ... let's just say I was impressed with some of the kits I saw. About me, not much, I'm 20, am into prepping, love shooting, and yearn for the day when I get to introduce my FUBAR to a zombie.
Wesleybf2wesley

</div></div>

HeHeHe....great site....this is a thread from the active threads list....I must be bored but you have to laugh at people like this

Exerpt: "I adopt a "stout" no BS, hands in front at waist level loosely held stance." Classic...read on and enjoy!

Post: "A Close Call"
OK, mixed feelings about this one. I dont know if this is the right place to ask, but what the hell.

On vacation with my family in So California. I have a CCW from my current state, but we all know what a crap hole for even “open carry” is in CA much less concealed carry, so I was not packing a firearm. The laws of how you have to secure the weapon are a bit confusing in CA, with very high consequences so right or wrong I didnt have it with me.

We were doing the amusement park thing, time with family at their house, so I was thoughtful that I was going to be in relatively safe places ..no bars, etc. NEVER AGAIN. But I digress.

So, at the end of the long day...midnightish...we are finally getting back to our hotel. It has secure parking, security on site, etc. We are in a midsized 4 door vehicle, 3 kids are asleep in back. Just me and my other half awake up front. For what its worth, The kids are big enough to be a burden to carry, small enough not to run fast enough away from trouble.

We swipe our card, and pull into the underground gated parking (TACTICAL PROBLEM #1: Cell phone does not reliably work in the garage structure) . I noticed a small truck pull in right behind me. I mean right behind me.. which set off my WTF-o-meter immediately. As I wound my way around the parking spots.. This was the worst laid out parking garage in the world (Tactical Problem #2: Maneuvering limited ) This guy followed me. So, the 'rational" part of my mind says "he must be another guest". The other part of my mind recognizes this as a threat cue and is worried. I park near as I can to the elevator, hoping to make the short haul of the kids to the elevator, and the front lobby if needed. (Tactical Problem #3: I’m not gong any where fast with my kids, and of course I'm not leaving them)

This guy pulls into the empty spot one over from me. By now I KNOW something isnt right, because this is an old beat up truck that doesn’t belong here. (Not to be snobbish, but this truck is WAY OUT OF PLACE) and the guy driving it looks "off". BTW, I am a paramedic, I deal with "off" people all the time, and this guy is "off". He gets out of his truck, and stands behind it about 5-10 feet from the rear of my car( I can see most of him however, including his hands) smoking. To egress I have to drive right by him (Tactical problem # 4: Proximity).

I wait in my car a couple of minutes, still hoping that he will leave. He doesn’t.

This is where I made a decision that I have mixed feelings on, and others I have talked about it with have too.

I decide to confront him. I advise my other half of my plan. I exit the vehicle and approach him. He is only 10-15 feet away, I approach within about 7 feet of him. My other half slides into the drivers seat. (Tactical problem # 5: we have not rehearsed nor planned for this encounter....) She will egress the whole vehicle with my kids if /when things go bad.

The gut feeling I have is I don’t ..I mean really DONT want to drive by him. I cant explain it. I feel defenseless and reactionary sitting in a car with this guy at an elevated position as I back out past him. So, I change the engagement. I approach. ( I had some vague idea of "walking" my car out as my other half drove...but who knows)

I adopt a "stout" no BS, hands in front at waist level loosely held stance. He stares at me smoking. Yep..something is up. After 30 - 60 seconds of a heavy silence, I ask him something to the effect of "What are you doing". He stares through me. I ask him again. I shift my stance a little bit to be ready for IDK what... Another 30 seconds of silence, I am just about to "jump".. when he says " I guess I don’t know what I am doing".. gets in his car and leaves.

We get the kids, beat feet up to the lobby and call the police/security (the police couldn’t figure out where we were on a cell phone because the place we stayed is a time share ..not well marked or advertised). Of course the guy got out of there and was never found.

I have identified several of the tactical problems above, plus the fact I didn’t know the actual street address off the top of my head. I readily admit I was an idiot, I didnt even have my knife or my defensive flashlight with me...

My gut feeling was that this was a step away from a car jacking, or worse.

My gut feeling was that I needed to change the battle field dynamics to my favor. Change the momentum of the engagement before it started (of course I didn’t think of it in these terms, but this was what I was feeling).

One of my good friends said I should have just backed out, ran him over if needed, and left. He said I should have never exited the vehicle.

One other of my good friends, with combat experiance from the sand box, agreed with me and reinforced my gut feeling.

Now I have been in my business long enough to realize that just because things didn’t go badly, is not proof of a good decision, just good luck… so what do you all think?

Was I right, wrong, or should I have done something else entirely?
 
Re: AR as primary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointblank4445</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HINT:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bf2wesley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

(tier 4) Think the juggernauts from Modern Warfare

</div></div>

Seriously, it's like every gunforum vomited on one singular post. Unbelievable

To the OP, you ARE the "brown bear" my friend.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/evr_tP9cJWY"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/evr_tP9cJWY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>

And the win goes to..........
 
Re: AR as primary

From another forum:

"A little background before I get started, I'm volunteering for Church, and therefore have very, very little disposable income; I plan on beginning to expand my collection when I go to college this fall. Anyway, here goes!"

So the DTA is going to run you $5000 + optics all by itself. Maybe rethink this.
 
Re: AR as primary

After reading this

I kind of feel nikked with just a 642 in my pocket.
 
Re: AR as primary

Hold on, wtf is going on in here? I had to actually use my scroll wheel to get through all that crap, hibidy hobbody nonsense.

to the OP: I'll sell you a slightly used, Cabelas Big Game Hunt 2012, with the facny gun controller for $50.00 Harness the power...
 
Re: AR as primary

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointblank4445</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HINT:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bf2wesley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

(tier 4) Think the juggernauts from Modern Warfare

</div></div>

Seriously, it's like every gunforum vomited on one singular post. Unbelievable

To the OP, you ARE the "brown bear" my friend.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/evr_tP9cJWY"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/evr_tP9cJWY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>
This makes me so happy, I feel warm inside! Points for the Billy Madison Ref. too.