I am an expirenced shooter, but fairly new to gas guns. I have a Les Baer, Surefire set up I have used all winter as a varmint rifle. I would guess the round count since cleaning would be about 100 or so. I missed a couple shots in the last week and checked sighting. POI was fine but 300 yard groups had opened from 1.5" to about 5". I did a thorugh cleaning and will test today. Is this common on an AR? How often should I clean a suppressed AR. I normally just fire one round at a time but shoot something about every day. I would hate to clean each day. I spent about an hour on it yesterday. I may need to go back to a bolt gun, as I have one set up.
- Thread starter RTH1800
- Start date
Re: AR Cleaning
i have several LB super varmints and can shoot 300-400 rounds in an afternoon, about the only thing i would do is run a boresnake down the tube every 100 or so shots if the groups would open up...mine hold less then a half an inch at 100 pretty much all the time when I do my part. I dont know why your grouping is so large. What weight bullet are you using vs twist of the bbl?
i have several LB super varmints and can shoot 300-400 rounds in an afternoon, about the only thing i would do is run a boresnake down the tube every 100 or so shots if the groups would open up...mine hold less then a half an inch at 100 pretty much all the time when I do my part. I dont know why your grouping is so large. What weight bullet are you using vs twist of the bbl?
Re: AR Cleaning
Sir,
I am shooting 62 grain bullets 8 twist barrel. I am well satified with the 1.5" groups at 300 yards. It is the 5" that won't do. I do think it has to do with the suppressor pushing powder residue back into the action. Are yours suppressed? I am sure I have only fired less than 1000 rds total. Mine is a hunting/culling rifle. It is not the bore that is getting dirty. It is the bolt/carrier etc.
Sir,
I am shooting 62 grain bullets 8 twist barrel. I am well satified with the 1.5" groups at 300 yards. It is the 5" that won't do. I do think it has to do with the suppressor pushing powder residue back into the action. Are yours suppressed? I am sure I have only fired less than 1000 rds total. Mine is a hunting/culling rifle. It is not the bore that is getting dirty. It is the bolt/carrier etc.
Re: AR Cleaning
If it is suppressed and is not a piston driven upper then yes, it is going to get very dirty pretty quick. I suspect that might be your culprit. Let us know how your test today goes.
If it is suppressed and is not a piston driven upper then yes, it is going to get very dirty pretty quick. I suspect that might be your culprit. Let us know how your test today goes.
Re: AR Cleaning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooty Puff Sr.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it is suppressed and is not a piston driven upper then yes, it is going to get very dirty pretty quick. I suspect that might be your culprit. Let us know how your test today goes. </div></div>
+1!
Even the piston driven uppers get bad after awhile when shooting suppressed...only about 20% as fast as a DI rifle will get filthy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooty Puff Sr.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it is suppressed and is not a piston driven upper then yes, it is going to get very dirty pretty quick. I suspect that might be your culprit. Let us know how your test today goes. </div></div>
+1!
Even the piston driven uppers get bad after awhile when shooting suppressed...only about 20% as fast as a DI rifle will get filthy.
Re: AR Cleaning
I don't know if this will be helpful, or if it has any connection with the way you cleaned your system, but here goes.
I bought some of the Tetra-gun power spray cleaner because it was cheaper than the Gun scrubber brand that I usually use. Once in a while, I will put the little nozzle into the end of the gas tube where the gas key meets it. I will then blast out anything loose inside the gas tube and do a final cleaning of the barrel.
With Gun scrubber, noting unique has happened. But this time, after using the Tetra-gun product, my zero shifted considerably, and continued to shift all over the place for about 40 rounds. After about 40 rounds things settled down, and now everyting works fine.
I don't know if the Tetra-gun product removed something that should have stayed inside the gas tube, or if it deposited something that shouldn't be in the gas tube. In any case, that is the last time I put any Tetra-gun scrubber down my gas tube.
So no one thinks I'm just bashing on Tetra, I really do like, and use their products. I even like the spray scrubber...just not inside my gas tube. And it sure smells much better than the Gun scrubber brand.
I don't know if this will be helpful, or if it has any connection with the way you cleaned your system, but here goes.
I bought some of the Tetra-gun power spray cleaner because it was cheaper than the Gun scrubber brand that I usually use. Once in a while, I will put the little nozzle into the end of the gas tube where the gas key meets it. I will then blast out anything loose inside the gas tube and do a final cleaning of the barrel.
With Gun scrubber, noting unique has happened. But this time, after using the Tetra-gun product, my zero shifted considerably, and continued to shift all over the place for about 40 rounds. After about 40 rounds things settled down, and now everyting works fine.
I don't know if the Tetra-gun product removed something that should have stayed inside the gas tube, or if it deposited something that shouldn't be in the gas tube. In any case, that is the last time I put any Tetra-gun scrubber down my gas tube.
So no one thinks I'm just bashing on Tetra, I really do like, and use their products. I even like the spray scrubber...just not inside my gas tube. And it sure smells much better than the Gun scrubber brand.
Re: AR Cleaning
I shoot about the same amount you do. You might try cleaning the barrel once a week. With some wipe-out, a bore guide and one piece rod, it doesn't take too long.
I used to use DI as my go to AR, but I switched to piston because they stay cleaner and don't blow so much gas in your face. My .223 and .308 POF's stay cleaner longer and both shoot sub .75" 5 shot groups.
-dan
I shoot about the same amount you do. You might try cleaning the barrel once a week. With some wipe-out, a bore guide and one piece rod, it doesn't take too long.
I used to use DI as my go to AR, but I switched to piston because they stay cleaner and don't blow so much gas in your face. My .223 and .308 POF's stay cleaner longer and both shoot sub .75" 5 shot groups.
-dan
Re: AR Cleaning
Noveske makes a gas block called the "switchblock".
It allows you to turn off the gas system entirely if you desire.
It uses a throw lever and has three settings:
1) normal
2) suppressed
3) off
The off position should really help to keep things clean inside.
If you're losing accuracy then barrel fouling is usually the culprit.
Is your barrel fouling?
100 rounds is the point where I usually clean my barrel, but I go easy on the cleaning.
A high end barrel that fouls may be not compatible with the bullets your using. (namely the jackets).
I'd clean out all the copper and try some sierra 69 or 77 grain matchkings, or some sierra gamekings and see if the fouling stops being a problem.
Noveske makes a gas block called the "switchblock".
It allows you to turn off the gas system entirely if you desire.
It uses a throw lever and has three settings:
1) normal
2) suppressed
3) off
The off position should really help to keep things clean inside.
If you're losing accuracy then barrel fouling is usually the culprit.
Is your barrel fouling?
100 rounds is the point where I usually clean my barrel, but I go easy on the cleaning.
A high end barrel that fouls may be not compatible with the bullets your using. (namely the jackets).
I'd clean out all the copper and try some sierra 69 or 77 grain matchkings, or some sierra gamekings and see if the fouling stops being a problem.
Re: AR Cleaning
Try 60 grain VMAX's, great on deer, groundhogs and accurate too.
I forgot about adjustable gas blocks. That should make a big difference.
-dan
Try 60 grain VMAX's, great on deer, groundhogs and accurate too.
I forgot about adjustable gas blocks. That should make a big difference.
-dan
Re: AR Cleaning
Here's my trick (between major cleanings):
- Bore snake
- Spray the hell out of the BCG with auto parts brake cleaner (same as Gun Scrubber but 1/3 the cost)
- Wipe it down and lightly lube (powdered graphite is your friend)
- Spray out the barrel nut area at the chamber
- I keep a short rod with a .357 bore brush handy to help scrub out this area
- Bore snake
- Shoot
Rich
Here's my trick (between major cleanings):
- Bore snake
- Spray the hell out of the BCG with auto parts brake cleaner (same as Gun Scrubber but 1/3 the cost)
- Wipe it down and lightly lube (powdered graphite is your friend)
- Spray out the barrel nut area at the chamber
- I keep a short rod with a .357 bore brush handy to help scrub out this area
- Bore snake
- Shoot
Rich
Re: AR Cleaning
62 grain bullet? 300 yards? Have you considered wind, as well as extreme spread could easily be the sources for error here? Think about it. What gradual change in condition from carbon build-up at the action would effect velocity/recoil to the extent that there would likely be an abrupt change in groups as you described? Remember, accuracy is all about consistency from ammunition, rifle, and shooter. As far as the rifle and ammunition effect accuracy, think about what would cause ES to rise. Of course, if grouping has anything to do with cleaning the action, you can test, while in range condition, shooting before and after groups, limiting cleaning to the action.
62 grain bullet? 300 yards? Have you considered wind, as well as extreme spread could easily be the sources for error here? Think about it. What gradual change in condition from carbon build-up at the action would effect velocity/recoil to the extent that there would likely be an abrupt change in groups as you described? Remember, accuracy is all about consistency from ammunition, rifle, and shooter. As far as the rifle and ammunition effect accuracy, think about what would cause ES to rise. Of course, if grouping has anything to do with cleaning the action, you can test, while in range condition, shooting before and after groups, limiting cleaning to the action.
Re: AR Cleaning
I do a "major cleaning" about once a year on my AR. My normal cleaning will be about every 500-600 rounds, with or with out the can. My normal cleaning consists of punching the bore once, hit the chamber with a chamber brush wrapped in some 762 patches, wipe the inside of the upper, hit the bolt face with an AP brush, wipe down the bolt carrier, lube with Slip2000 and be done with it. This takes all of 5 minutes.
I have yet to find an AR with accuracy problems that was linked to a dirty weapon. A gas gun requires a little more work to shoot accurately and it is easy to be a little off. We like to blame ammo, optics and weapons but all too often it is the us that is failing.... RTH1800, this sounds just like a post exchange we had the other day???
I do a "major cleaning" about once a year on my AR. My normal cleaning will be about every 500-600 rounds, with or with out the can. My normal cleaning consists of punching the bore once, hit the chamber with a chamber brush wrapped in some 762 patches, wipe the inside of the upper, hit the bolt face with an AP brush, wipe down the bolt carrier, lube with Slip2000 and be done with it. This takes all of 5 minutes.
I have yet to find an AR with accuracy problems that was linked to a dirty weapon. A gas gun requires a little more work to shoot accurately and it is easy to be a little off. We like to blame ammo, optics and weapons but all too often it is the us that is failing.... RTH1800, this sounds just like a post exchange we had the other day???
Re: AR Cleaning
5" at 300 yards is typical for an AR.
I'm not aware of any 62 grain bullets that are decent for accuracy.
What bullet are you shooting?
Have you checked for copper with Sweets or something similar?
Does the throat feel smooth?
5" at 300 yards is typical for an AR.
I'm not aware of any 62 grain bullets that are decent for accuracy.
What bullet are you shooting?
Have you checked for copper with Sweets or something similar?
Does the throat feel smooth?
Re: AR Cleaning
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5" at 300 yards is typical for an AR.
I'm not aware of any 62 grain bullets that are decent for accuracy.
</div></div>
I shoot a 62gr. Remington HP match bullet with 24.3gr. of Benchmark,Rem. 7.5 primer, Remington brass that is VERY accurate out of a 1-8 twist Wilson 20" Barrel believe it or not. Smallest 5-shot group @ 100yrds - .28"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5" at 300 yards is typical for an AR.
I'm not aware of any 62 grain bullets that are decent for accuracy.
</div></div>
I shoot a 62gr. Remington HP match bullet with 24.3gr. of Benchmark,Rem. 7.5 primer, Remington brass that is VERY accurate out of a 1-8 twist Wilson 20" Barrel believe it or not. Smallest 5-shot group @ 100yrds - .28"
Re: AR Cleaning
Accuracy at distance is mostly about bullet stability-the bullet's B.C. countering the effects of wind and drag. Once the bullet looses steam it will, of course, tumble. Your 5 shot groups at 100 are the sort to be expected from any combination of rifle, ammunition, and shooter when sight alignment and trigger control are perfected from a steady position. Larger groups would indicate shooter error and/or broken equipment.
Accuracy at distance is mostly about bullet stability-the bullet's B.C. countering the effects of wind and drag. Once the bullet looses steam it will, of course, tumble. Your 5 shot groups at 100 are the sort to be expected from any combination of rifle, ammunition, and shooter when sight alignment and trigger control are perfected from a steady position. Larger groups would indicate shooter error and/or broken equipment.
Re: AR Cleaning
You should neaver spray anything down a gas tube. by spraying stuff doun the gas tube it can get clogged up and if you go to fire it with a clogged tube it can blow up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know if this will be helpful, or if it has any connection with the way you cleaned your system, but here goes.
I bought some of the Tetra-gun power spray cleaner because it was cheaper than the Gun scrubber brand that I usually use. Once in a while, I will put the little nozzle into the end of the gas tube where the gas key meets it. I will then blast out anything loose inside the gas tube and do a final cleaning of the barrel.
With Gun scrubber, noting unique has happened. But this time, after using the Tetra-gun product, my zero shifted considerably, and continued to shift all over the place for about 40 rounds. After about 40 rounds things settled down, and now everyting works fine.
I don't know if the Tetra-gun product removed something that should have stayed inside the gas tube, or if it deposited something that shouldn't be in the gas tube. In any case, that is the last time I put any Tetra-gun scrubber down my gas tube.
So no one thinks I'm just bashing on Tetra, I really do like, and use their products. I even like the spray scrubber...just not inside my gas tube. And it sure smells much better than the Gun scrubber brand. </div></div>
You should neaver spray anything down a gas tube. by spraying stuff doun the gas tube it can get clogged up and if you go to fire it with a clogged tube it can blow up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know if this will be helpful, or if it has any connection with the way you cleaned your system, but here goes.
I bought some of the Tetra-gun power spray cleaner because it was cheaper than the Gun scrubber brand that I usually use. Once in a while, I will put the little nozzle into the end of the gas tube where the gas key meets it. I will then blast out anything loose inside the gas tube and do a final cleaning of the barrel.
With Gun scrubber, noting unique has happened. But this time, after using the Tetra-gun product, my zero shifted considerably, and continued to shift all over the place for about 40 rounds. After about 40 rounds things settled down, and now everyting works fine.
I don't know if the Tetra-gun product removed something that should have stayed inside the gas tube, or if it deposited something that shouldn't be in the gas tube. In any case, that is the last time I put any Tetra-gun scrubber down my gas tube.
So no one thinks I'm just bashing on Tetra, I really do like, and use their products. I even like the spray scrubber...just not inside my gas tube. And it sure smells much better than the Gun scrubber brand. </div></div>
Re: AR Cleaning
Guys,
Thank you for the input. I did not shoot targets as conditions and farm work did not permit. I did make some long range 200-300 kills on crows and a coyote this weekend and missed only one shot. I do think the accuracy is improved. I will check asap and let you know what I found.
RTH
Guys,
Thank you for the input. I did not shoot targets as conditions and farm work did not permit. I did make some long range 200-300 kills on crows and a coyote this weekend and missed only one shot. I do think the accuracy is improved. I will check asap and let you know what I found.
RTH
Re: AR Cleaning
I only clean the bolt due to the suppressor causing so much blowback. I only clean the barrel when I start to loose accuracy or when I reach about 800 rounds. I have about 4500 rounds through my 11 inch upper with can and following this regiment has left me with no failures whatsoever. I will shoot the can till its way hot and then allow to cool normally. So far so good.
I only clean the bolt due to the suppressor causing so much blowback. I only clean the barrel when I start to loose accuracy or when I reach about 800 rounds. I have about 4500 rounds through my 11 inch upper with can and following this regiment has left me with no failures whatsoever. I will shoot the can till its way hot and then allow to cool normally. So far so good.
