AR Pistol Help BCM VS Daniel Defense 5.56

[bigjake83]

So I'm in the market now for a AR pistol and I've got it down to two options and I'm hoping that some of you guys can give me some insight on these two choices, I know many of you probably used these in the similar SBR package as well.



(1)
BCM recce - 11 kmr-a AR15 5.56 NATO semi-auto pistol 11.5 Barrel sba3 brace. $1260

(2)
DANIEL DEFENSE V7P PISTOL DDM4V7P $1380

Besides the obvious difference of 1" in barrel length, does the Daniel defense really have anything over the BCM to justify the increase in price??

They both seem to have solid reputations as reliable and accurate pistols, solid free floating handguards, multiple QD sling locations. The BCM I believe is a bit lighter and also has a lighter Barrel option. but other than what I've already stated above I can't really see much of a difference between the two.

I found a few places that have them at a decent sale price that puts them about $100 between each other.

Here are my thoughts, both seem to be extremely reliable and accurate, I actually prefer the 11.5" barrel to mitigate the muzzle blast a bit over the 10.5.

Both come with the sba3 brace, lower receivers seem to be pretty much identical, if one of them has a tensioning screw please let me know I can't seem to find any information online to show that there are any differences other than the DD now comes with the Ambi safety.

Triggers seem to be a wash it's another thing I can't seem to find much of a difference between the two. (Doesn't much matter whichever one I get is going to get a Geissele upgrade anyway)

I actually don't care for the fact that the DD now has a plastic dust cover.

Right now I'm leaning towards the BCM I like the different Barrel options and 11.5 Barrel length, has a hybrid muzzle brake comp. Price-wise looks like it's going to save me a couple hundred bucks maybe even more if I can get it lower than I've already found for the 4th of July sales.

No matter which one I buy it's going to get an ambidextrous charging handle, ambi safety, law Tactical folding stock adapter and Geissele trigger, topped off with a Trijicon mro patrol. I also read somewhere that the BCM receiver extensions are A5 length and I've sent BCM a email for clarification on that as well.

Thank you for reading and any possible help is appreciated.

Jake

 

[Gasgun]

They are both quality guns.
You can’t go wrong with either.
I doubt that you will notice any difference in muzzle blast from an 11.5” and a 10.3”.
I prefer Mlok to Keymod. That’s the only thing that would push me to one of the guns listed over the other.

 

[loveha]

Flip a coin. I personally don't like the DD grip. Don't see how any body ever can get proper trigger finger placement without a beavertail style grip. But like everything else, easy to change. I wasn't a fan of the plastic dust cover, or plastic saftey levers. The saftey, like the grip is easy to change.

Writing this out, makes me realize, I would go with the BCM.

 

[bigjake83]

Writing this out, makes me realize, I would go with the BCM.

That's funny ?

 

[schlaiek]

I prefer mlok to keymod, but I imagine you could get either firearm with either interface. I would go Daniel simply for the rail/barrel nut setup. I think only Geissele can match DD in that department. How the DD mates to the receiver is simply stronger than the BCM imo. That said, the BCM is top notch and anyone would be well suited owning either of the guns you have listed.

 

[Coffee_and_Pipes]

I bought a BCM with a stainless barrel a few years ago, and I love it. It was the first AR I got. One thing that kept me from jumping on the bandwagon sooner was the fact that the AR’s my friends had rattled when you shook them, and didn’t seem to have much build quality. One of the first things I noticed about the BCM was that it felt solid, and it didn’t have a lot of parts rattling. Because of that, I’ve been thinking about getting one of their pistols, too.

I came across Paul Buffoni talking about why their pistol/SBR upper runs an 11.5” barrel:

One of the thing that can make SBRs finicky is the dwell time (or lack of)....​

The 11.5" carbine is approximately 4% longer weapon than its' 10.5" counterpart, but this extra inch gives the barrel a 40% increase in length for dwell time. IMHO, this is an excellent trade off. This additional dwell time (all other things being equal) will allow the carbine to be more forgiving to different ammo types, extremes in air temperature, weak or worn extractor springs, worn extractors, buffer weights, etc.​

​

(source: BCM Industry Boards on AR15.com; I know, not the most informational site, but I was interested to read it since it came directly from Bravo Company)​

*Edit* Buffoni also mentions that a good 10.5” can run very well, but he still seems pretty convinced that the 11.5” setup is better​

​

I don’t believe that BCM uses tensioning screws in their lowers. I’ve taken a picture of the inside of my lower as an example (again, being new to AR’s, if I’ve gotten a picture of the wrong place in the lower, let me know and I’ll send a mew one.

 

[padom]

I love the DD MFR MLOK handguard. So much so I have them on 3 of my AR pistols all with SBA3 braces, 2 with Law Tactical Gen2 folders, Aimpoints, SA AGB's, Geissele ambi charging handles, Rubber City BCG's and JP springs. I have a Spikes Heavy buffer in the 10.3" 5.56 and 10.5" 300blk.

My 10.3" 5.56 sports a Daniel Defense Govt 1:7 barrel and its insanely accurate. I bought a new one off a local forum for cheap a few years back to hold me over while my 10.5" WOA was on backorder. Never took it off the gun its scary accurate.

I personally would build one for less than either of those but with all the parts you want from the get-go. If light is your game get forged BCM MOD4 stripped upper and lower receivers to start with. Otherwise you can beat the MEGA billets at JSE right now. I cant stop buying them. Haha. That's what my pistols are built off of.. SBA3 is on sale right now $89.99 at PA. Geissele will for sure be running a sale this week.


100yds DD 10.3" GOVT 1:7 Barrel @ 100yds

 

[bigjake83]

I bought a BCM with a stainless barrel a few years ago, and I love it. It was the first AR I got. One thing that kept me from jumping on the bandwagon sooner was the fact that the AR’s my friends had rattled when you shook them, and didn’t seem to have much build quality. One of the first things I noticed about the BCM was that it felt solid, and it didn’t have a lot of parts rattling. Because of that, I’ve been thinking about getting one of their pistols, too.

I came across Paul Buffoni talking about why their pistol/SBR upper runs an 11.5” barrel:

One of the thing that can make SBRs finicky is the dwell time (or lack of)....​

The 11.5" carbine is approximately 4% longer weapon than its' 10.5" counterpart, but this extra inch gives the barrel a 40% increase in length for dwell time. IMHO, this is an excellent trade off. This additional dwell time (all other things being equal) will allow the carbine to be more forgiving to different ammo types, extremes in air temperature, weak or worn extractor springs, worn extractors, buffer weights, etc.​

​

(source: BCM Industry Boards on AR15.com; I know, not the most informational site, but I was interested to read it since it came directly from Bravo Company)​

*Edit* Buffoni also mentions that a good 10.5” can run very well, but he still seems pretty convinced that the 11.5” setup is better​

​

I don’t believe that BCM uses tensioning screws in their lowers. I’ve taken a picture of the inside of my lower as an example (again, being new to AR’s, if I’ve gotten a picture of the wrong place in the lower, let me know and I’ll send a mew one.

View attachment 7104857View attachment 7104858

That's the correct area, and thank you for taking time to snap a few photos for me.

 

[bigjake83]

I love the DD MFR MLOK handguard. So much so I have them on 3 of my AR pistols all with SBA3 braces, 2 with Law Tactical Gen2 folders, Aimpoints, SA AGB's, Geissele ambi charging handles, Rubber City BCG's and JP springs. I have a Spikes Heavy buffer in the 10.3" 5.56 and 10.5" 300blk.

My 10.3" 5.56 sports a Daniel Defense Govt 1:7 barrel and its insanely accurate. I bought a new one off a local forum for cheap a few years back to hold me over while my 10.5" WOA was on backorder. Never took it off the gun its scary accurate.

I personally would build one for less than either of those but with all the parts you want from the get-go. If light is your game get forged BCM MOD4 stripped upper and lower receivers to start with. Otherwise you can beat the MEGA billets at JSE right now. I cant stop buying them. Haha. That's what my pistols are built off of.. SBA3 is on sale right now $89.99 at PA. Geissele will for sure be running a sale this week.


100yds DD 10.3" GOVT 1:7 Barrel @ 100yds

I'm glad you brought that up, how does that work when building an AR pistol, do you simply purchase an AR lower and have it checked off as a pistol when doing the FFL transfer, Then follow the legal guidelines for an AR pistol while building??

This is truly something I've never played around with and this pistol is going to be flatout abused, every set up I own is all about Precision even my Recce rifle, it would be nice to have something I don't have to worry about harming.

One of the reasons I'm choosing to buy a off-the-shelf pistol is because I know if I build it I'm going to spend WAY more then 1,260.00

I'd probably start with an SR15 Lower.

 

[padom]

Just buy a brand new stripped lower receiver and build it up into a pistol. You cannot take a lower receiver from a rifle and build a pistol off of it.

Light was my goal so I used BCM forged receivers and love them. I've got close to 10,000rd on my 5.55 pistol and it hasnt missed a beat.

 

[CuTm]

Bcm.

 

[Landon4]

I would also build my own with the parts I wanted to run from the get go and you would probably come out cheaper just like others have stated, when you buy the lower they can just check other and not rifle that’s how my ffl does it when I purchase a lower. The plus side is you can learn a lot about your gun if you’ve never built one so for cleaning or regular maintenance will be much easier.

 

[Soulezoo]

I'll echo gasgun's comments above. Both are quality and you can buy either with confidence. Choose the one in which the small details matter to you.
I own a BCM currently and have had a DD in the past.

 

[bigjake83]

when you buy the lower they can just check other and not rifle that’s how my ffl does it when I purchase a lower.

That's what I was talking about, thank you.

I've been building custom and Precision AR's for over half my life so I'm definitely no stranger to the platform I have just strayed away from this pistol idea because it's always controversial and borderline grey area at best.

My main concern is if I do get stopped by a law enforcement entity and they run my firearm I wanted to come up as a pistol so there is no illusion that it's an SBR.

 

[Landon4]

From what I was told is you can make a pistol into a rifle but not a rifle into a pistol but my guy just checks other that way there shouldn’t be an issue if the problem came about, someone else may have a better explanation that’s just what I’ve heard

 

[R.O.U.S.]

I think I would lean toward the BCM.

I have a DD V7S SBR. It is an 11.5", so 1" longer than the V7P. While accurate, it is ridiculously over gassed. I tried using a 8.5 oz AR10 buffer to tame it. The MFR handguard is nice.

Daniel Defense also has bizarre QC. They use some sort of tool (maybe dremel?) to remove material from either the lower, pivot pin slots, or the upper where the pivot pin slides in through. Although you don't see the damage when the rifle is assembled, if I had known that is the way that DD did things I would have chosen BCM, Sionics, or another reputable company

 

[bfk4lyfe]

Both are going to probably last forever. I’m a BCM whore and I’ve beaten the piss out of two different BCM rifles figuratively on the range and literally bouncing around in the back of my patrol car. They run as good as the day I bought them. To be completely fair I’d expect any quality AR to do the same tho.

 

[bigjake83]

I think I would lean toward the BCM.

I have a DD V7S SBR. It is an 11.5", so 1" longer than the V7P. While accurate, it is ridiculously over gassed. I tried using a 8.5 oz AR10 buffer to tame it. The MFR handguard is nice.

Daniel Defense also has bizarre QC. They use some sort of tool (maybe dremel?) to remove material from either the lower, pivot pin slots, or the upper where the pivot pin slides in through. Although you don't see the damage when the rifle is assembled, if I had known that is the way that DD did things I would have chosen BCM, Sionics, or another reputable company

That's a bit alarming especially at the premium they charge for their products.

 

[bigjake83]

If anybody has an BCM pistol or BCM SBR I'd be forever grateful if you could post some pics of the machining work and overall details.

unfortunately because of the price range of these set ups you don't see too many of them in your local gun stores so it makes it difficult to get your hands on one to take a peek.

 

[loveha]

Here is a video on just a BCM upper.

 

[LeadZeke]

Build it. There is no legal grey area. LE will not be "running your serial number" You have guys in competition running them, you have LE running them, you have trainers training LE running them. If the ATF ever does a huge reverse course, you will just SBR it. Do not be afraid.

The DD and BCM are both inferior choices. To make a really great AR15 pistol you want:

1.) A quality adjustable gas block like a Superlative Arms or SLR Rifleworks.

2.) An 11.5in carbine gas or ideally a 12.5in mid gas barrel.

3.) And an A5H2 (or A5H3 suppressed) buffer setup.

That is at a minimum. Obviously you are no stranger to building so you already know all the other advantages you can garner.

 

[Wyzrd]

I just recently bought a 10.5” AR15 Upper from another Hide member, and it’s my first AR pistol. Like you, I’m not new to gas guns, but this was my first with an AR pistol just cuz of the legal “do’s & dont’s” with them. Anyways, my upper consists of:

-10.5” Ballistic Advantage Hanson profile barrel, 1-7” twist
-Lantac Dragon brake
-Seekins AGB
-BCM Mlok handguard
-Aero Precision upper
-Aimpoint T2 on Geissele mount
-Surefire M600 Scout w/ pressure pad
-Magpul hand stop
-Ambi Raptor charging handle
-Lantac E-BCG

Lower is:

-Black Rain Ordnance billet lower
-Magpul K2+ grip
-Ambi Safety
-SBA3 pistol brace
-Geissele SD-3G
-JP SCS
-Magpul ASAP sling mount

So far so good, and it’s just a blast to shoot! So much so that I’m already buying parts for another AR pistol build (12” barrel this time on another BCM4 upper).

Anyways, I have zero experience with DD, but I can say that BCM makes very quality gear (uppers, barrels, handguards, etc), but I’ve never had one of their complete rifles.

The adjustable gas block combined with the JP SCS made this a breeze to get it shooting super soft with perfect 3:00-3:30 brass ejection, and zero twang.

 

[bigjake83]

I just recently bought a 10.5” AR15 Upper from another Hide member, and it’s my first AR pistol. Like you, I’m not new to gas guns, but this was my first with an AR pistol just cuz of the legal “do’s & dont’s” with them. Anyways, my upper consists of:

-10.5” Ballistic Advantage Hanson profile barrel, 1-7” twist
-Lantac Dragon brake
-Seekins AGB
-BCM Mlok handguard
-Aero Precision upper
-Aimpoint T2 on Geissele mount
-Surefire M600 Scout w/ pressure pad
-Magpul hand stop
-Ambi Raptor charging handle
-Lantac E-BCG

Lower is:

-Black Rain Ordnance billet lower
-Magpul K2+ grip
-Ambi Safety
-SBA3 pistol brace
-Geissele SD-3G
-JP SCS
-Magpul ASAP sling mount

So far so good, and it’s just a blast to shoot! So much so that I’m already buying parts for another AR pistol build (12” barrel this time on another BCM4 upper).

Anyways, I have zero experience with DD, but I can say that BCM makes very quality gear (uppers, barrels, handguards, etc), but I’ve never had one of their complete rifles.

The adjustable gas block combined with the JP SCS made this a breeze to get it shooting super soft with perfect 3:00-3:30 brass ejection, and zero twang.View attachment 7105660View attachment 7105661View attachment 7105662View attachment 7105663

The only thing that's keeping me from you already buying the BCM is finding out more about the handguard how does yours feel, how solid is it?

Nice build by the way.

 

[bigjake83]

I've decided I'm going to go with this one guys, it has the ELW barrel with M-Lok. I just can't justify the extra cost with the DD, truly the only advance part the DD has over the BCM is there handguard.

I already have the Geissele trigger and JP H2 SCS, and Ambi CH in my spare parts box the only additional cost I'll have to pay out-of-pocket for is the Law Tactical folding adapter, and Brownells has them on sale right now and the nice little coupon code to go along with it.

Thanks again for all the advice I'll make sure to post pictures and a Range Report.

For now I'm going to stick to the MRO but down the road I'm going to fit it with a Nightforce NX8 F1

 

[trob_205]

I've decided I'm going to go with this guy, it has the ELW barrel with M-Lok.

I already have the Geissele trigger and JP H2 SCS, and Ambi CH in my spare parts box the only additional cost I'll have to pay out-of-pocket for is the Law Tactical folding adapter, and Brownells has them on sale right now and the nice little coupon code to go along with it.

Thanks again for all the advice I'll make sure to post pictures and a Range Report.

For now I'm going to stick to the MRO but down the road I'm going to fit it with a Nightforce NX8 F1
View attachment 7105901

You'll be happy with the BCM. I was getting ready to chime in until I saw your choice. I’m not sure if it’s been fixed but DD tends to run large gas port holes and I’ve seen highly overgassed guns from them. BCM makes a great proven product and is my go to for parts and built rifles. Soon I’ll be purchasing/building a BCM 9” 300AAC upper with the 8” KMR or 8” QFR.

 

[bigjake83]

You'll be happy with the BCM. I was getting ready to chime in until I saw your choice. I’m not sure if it’s been fixed but DD tends to run large gas port holes and I’ve seen highly overgassed guns from them. BCM makes a great proven product and is my go to for parts and built rifles. Soon I’ll be purchasing/building a BCM 9” 300AAC upper with the 8” KMR or 8” QFR.

That's correct Daniel defense pistols are overgassed, I just watched a video today with the guy addressing that and that was one of the main selling points the BCM it seems they have selected a gas Port that is right in the middle so there's not even a need for an adjustable gas block.

 

[FishinGuns]

If you lived in MI the overall length is important. Has to be 26” or under here because of some idiots a while back. The BCM would just be a “Firearm” here, but you couldn’t legally conceal it under your CPL. Have to treat it like a regular rifle, shotty,
etc.

My 10.5 home build AR pistol w/standard length carbine buffer is 25.5” overall.

My point here is, check your state laws and the states you travel to often on overall length for pistols. MI is a little obscure on this too, took a little digging to find since it’s more restrictive than the fed definition of a pistol...

 

[bigjake83]

If you lived in MI the overall length is important. Has to be 26” or under here because of some idiots a while back. The BCM would just be a “Firearm” here, but you couldn’t legally conceal it under your CPL. Have to treat it like a regular rifle, shotty,
etc.

My 10.5 home build AR pistol w/standard length carbine buffer is 25.5” overall.

My point here is, check your state laws and the states you travel to often on overall length for pistols. MI is a little obscure on this too, took a little digging to find since it’s more restrictive than the fed definition of a pistol...

yeah I just saw that does anybody know what the maximum length for an AR pistol is in Idaho?? the BCM is 27" overall