Shotgun or AR for home defense?
Which do you prefer and why?
I prefer a simplicity of a ghost ringed 870 over the AR, but that is just me.
Which do you prefer and why?
I prefer a simplicity of a ghost ringed 870 over the AR, but that is just me.
- Thread starter X-fan
- Start date
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
My house gun is a vang comp 870 with a t1 and sure fire and I have plenty of ar's.
My house gun is a vang comp 870 with a t1 and sure fire and I have plenty of ar's.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
Ar with 40 gr vmax's less chance of over penetration or pass through than oo buck and more precise than 12ga #4.
Ar with 40 gr vmax's less chance of over penetration or pass through than oo buck and more precise than 12ga #4.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
A phased plasma rifle in a 40 watt range...
A phased plasma rifle in a 40 watt range...
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is this posted in bolt rifles? </div></div>
My bad.
Perhaps a mod can move it to the right place?
Thanks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is this posted in bolt rifles? </div></div>
My bad.
Perhaps a mod can move it to the right place?
Thanks
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
I would say shotgun...for pure stopping power. I dn't have a shotgun, but I do have several AR's. I use a .40 HK USP for my home defense.
I would say shotgun...for pure stopping power. I dn't have a shotgun, but I do have several AR's. I use a .40 HK USP for my home defense.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
870 loaded down with buckshot works for me.
Always have the Vaquero laying there as my back up.
870 loaded down with buckshot works for me.
Always have the Vaquero laying there as my back up.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
AR for me, but I live out in the sticks, so no over penetration concerns. He'll, a scatter gun won't even reach to barn with ummph.
AR for me, but I live out in the sticks, so no over penetration concerns. He'll, a scatter gun won't even reach to barn with ummph.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
How about an AR with the shottie mounted underneath?
How about an AR with the shottie mounted underneath?
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
hells yeah
hells yeah
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
Shotgun will penetrate more than an AR. A pistol will penetrate more than an AR.
I have an AR loaded with 55 gr V-Max.
Shotgun will penetrate more than an AR. A pistol will penetrate more than an AR.
I have an AR loaded with 55 gr V-Max.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shotgun will penetrate more than an AR. A pistol will penetrate more than an AR.
I have an AR loaded with 55 gr V-Max. </div></div>
Not sure where you got that. Dug out a 55 grainer 1.5" deep in a stud after passing through 6 sheets of drywall and a piece of trim that originated in an adjacent residence fired from an AR.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shotgun will penetrate more than an AR. A pistol will penetrate more than an AR.
I have an AR loaded with 55 gr V-Max. </div></div>
Not sure where you got that. Dug out a 55 grainer 1.5" deep in a stud after passing through 6 sheets of drywall and a piece of trim that originated in an adjacent residence fired from an AR.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shotgun will penetrate more than an AR. A pistol will penetrate more than an AR.
I have an AR loaded with 55 gr V-Max. </div></div>
Not sure where you got that. Dug out a 55 grainer 1.5" deep in a stud after passing through 6 sheets of drywall and a piece of trim that originated in an adjacent residence fired from an AR. </div></div>
A 55gr Vmax? or a 55gr FMJ cause I whould find it hard to believe that a Vmax penetrated through all that.
Thoes things are designed for maximum expansion/damage not penetration.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shotgun will penetrate more than an AR. A pistol will penetrate more than an AR.
I have an AR loaded with 55 gr V-Max. </div></div>
Not sure where you got that. Dug out a 55 grainer 1.5" deep in a stud after passing through 6 sheets of drywall and a piece of trim that originated in an adjacent residence fired from an AR. </div></div>
A 55gr Vmax? or a 55gr FMJ cause I whould find it hard to believe that a Vmax penetrated through all that.
Thoes things are designed for maximum expansion/damage not penetration.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zinny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">an instructor at a range once told me the best home defense combination is a shotgun with bird shot. low recoil, low penetration, wide spread, makes it perfect for home defense. </div></div>
I would question that instructors first hand knowledge of what birdshot does , or better yet, doesn't do at close range. Plenty of guys on here can attest that birdshot isn't enough to stop someone that is, shall we say, motivated.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zinny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">an instructor at a range once told me the best home defense combination is a shotgun with bird shot. low recoil, low penetration, wide spread, makes it perfect for home defense. </div></div>
I would question that instructors first hand knowledge of what birdshot does , or better yet, doesn't do at close range. Plenty of guys on here can attest that birdshot isn't enough to stop someone that is, shall we say, motivated.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
In my opinion the long gun isn't a choice.
Home invasions to me mean a suprise crashing through the door, or breaking in at night.
The best HD/SD gun is the one thats available. I always have my 642 in my pocket. I don't set around watching TV with a rifle or shotgun on my lap. I don't pack a rifle to the john.
My front door is about 10 feet from my chair, the back door 20, regardless I can dig my little revolver out of my pocket faster then I can get up, cross the room and fetch a long gun.
My house is small enough there is nothing that is out of range of my little 38 and my abilities with that gun.
In my opinion the long gun isn't a choice.
Home invasions to me mean a suprise crashing through the door, or breaking in at night.
The best HD/SD gun is the one thats available. I always have my 642 in my pocket. I don't set around watching TV with a rifle or shotgun on my lap. I don't pack a rifle to the john.
My front door is about 10 feet from my chair, the back door 20, regardless I can dig my little revolver out of my pocket faster then I can get up, cross the room and fetch a long gun.
My house is small enough there is nothing that is out of range of my little 38 and my abilities with that gun.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zinny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">an instructor at a range once told me the best home defense combination is a shotgun with bird shot. low recoil, low penetration, wide spread, makes it perfect for home defense. </div></div>
Your instructor is full of shit.
Ask someone who has some experience with birdshot wounds on humans.
This question comes up time and time again on various forums. At one point I wrote a very long and detailed response. Something I am just not in the mood to repeat today.
The folks that ask "this vs. that" need to keep in mind the experience level of the folks giving the answers. You can bet that the majority of answers you get on the internet are regurgitated from something read/heard elsewhere. Few, if any will have actually trained with shotgun, rifle and pistol in live fire CQB.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zinny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">an instructor at a range once told me the best home defense combination is a shotgun with bird shot. low recoil, low penetration, wide spread, makes it perfect for home defense. </div></div>
Your instructor is full of shit.
Ask someone who has some experience with birdshot wounds on humans.
This question comes up time and time again on various forums. At one point I wrote a very long and detailed response. Something I am just not in the mood to repeat today.
The folks that ask "this vs. that" need to keep in mind the experience level of the folks giving the answers. You can bet that the majority of answers you get on the internet are regurgitated from something read/heard elsewhere. Few, if any will have actually trained with shotgun, rifle and pistol in live fire CQB.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrLebowski</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shotgun will penetrate more than an AR. A pistol will penetrate more than an AR.
I have an AR loaded with 55 gr V-Max. </div></div>
Not sure where you got that. Dug out a 55 grainer 1.5" deep in a stud after passing through 6 sheets of drywall and a piece of trim that originated in an adjacent residence fired from an AR. </div></div>
A 55gr Vmax? or a 55gr FMJ cause I whould find it hard to believe that a Vmax penetrated through all that.
Thoes things are designed for maximum expansion/damage not penetration. </div></div>
Did you perform penetration tests yourself before settling on this bullet and recommending them to others?
If not, send me 10 of them and I'll test them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrLebowski</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shotgun will penetrate more than an AR. A pistol will penetrate more than an AR.
I have an AR loaded with 55 gr V-Max. </div></div>
Not sure where you got that. Dug out a 55 grainer 1.5" deep in a stud after passing through 6 sheets of drywall and a piece of trim that originated in an adjacent residence fired from an AR. </div></div>
A 55gr Vmax? or a 55gr FMJ cause I whould find it hard to believe that a Vmax penetrated through all that.
Thoes things are designed for maximum expansion/damage not penetration. </div></div>
Did you perform penetration tests yourself before settling on this bullet and recommending them to others?
If not, send me 10 of them and I'll test them.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
+1 for the BS flag on bird shot.
That being said #4 buck or larger is preferred. Actually measure the inside of your house. Unless you live in the Taj Mahal 30 - 40 feet is pretty much max in a regular house. Even from an 18" tube the spread on a 12GA will be minimal so you can still miss and must aim. All things being equal I'd rather have a shotty in the house than an AR but a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush as Kraig mentioned.
Cheers,
Doc
+1 for the BS flag on bird shot.
That being said #4 buck or larger is preferred. Actually measure the inside of your house. Unless you live in the Taj Mahal 30 - 40 feet is pretty much max in a regular house. Even from an 18" tube the spread on a 12GA will be minimal so you can still miss and must aim. All things being equal I'd rather have a shotty in the house than an AR but a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush as Kraig mentioned.
Cheers,
Doc
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: c_bass16</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got both, but the one I would reach for first is the 9mm Glock.
Speed of the AR and more compact that either one.</div></div>
+1 except mines in .40
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: c_bass16</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got both, but the one I would reach for first is the 9mm Glock.
Speed of the AR and more compact that either one.</div></div>
+1 except mines in .40
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about an AR with the shottie mounted underneath?
</div></div>
That's not Red Jacket therefore it's not worth a shit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about an AR with the shottie mounted underneath?
</div></div>
That's not Red Jacket therefore it's not worth a shit.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
I have pistols and shotguns for home defense.
As far as the bird shot goes, just like anything, it can kill you, but it might not stop a guy smoked out of his mind on PCP like you would think. Seen it.
I've seen a .40 go through several walls. Think about what you want to use. If you're in an apartment, expect to sling rounds into your neighbor's place from rounds going through walls.
I have pistols and shotguns for home defense.
As far as the bird shot goes, just like anything, it can kill you, but it might not stop a guy smoked out of his mind on PCP like you would think. Seen it.
I've seen a .40 go through several walls. Think about what you want to use. If you're in an apartment, expect to sling rounds into your neighbor's place from rounds going through walls.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
I keep a 12ga with 00, because my wife is comfortable using it. I have considered switching to #4 because of possible overpenetration. I would like to meet a person that could shake off a facefull of birdshot at 20' and remain a threat. My go to is a handgun.
Seems to me being overgunned or or with more gear in hand than the swat team may not endear you to the local LEOs that respond or the jury that may decide whether you acted in defense or not.
I keep a 12ga with 00, because my wife is comfortable using it. I have considered switching to #4 because of possible overpenetration. I would like to meet a person that could shake off a facefull of birdshot at 20' and remain a threat. My go to is a handgun.
Seems to me being overgunned or or with more gear in hand than the swat team may not endear you to the local LEOs that respond or the jury that may decide whether you acted in defense or not.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shotgun will penetrate more than an AR. A pistol will penetrate more than an AR.
I have an AR loaded with 55 gr V-Max. </div></div>
So basically AR's aren't worth a shit and the military should replace all of them with shotguns and pistols.
Rifle bullets will almost always out-penetrate any shotgun or handgun ammo that would be used for defensive purposes. They have the advantage of sectional density unless you strictly load 40 gr varmint bullets that explode on impact. Any 55 gr .223 bullet will penetrate further than buckshot and a hell of a lot further than birdshot.
And whatever instructor advised using birdshot should stop instructing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shotgun will penetrate more than an AR. A pistol will penetrate more than an AR.
I have an AR loaded with 55 gr V-Max. </div></div>
So basically AR's aren't worth a shit and the military should replace all of them with shotguns and pistols.
Rifle bullets will almost always out-penetrate any shotgun or handgun ammo that would be used for defensive purposes. They have the advantage of sectional density unless you strictly load 40 gr varmint bullets that explode on impact. Any 55 gr .223 bullet will penetrate further than buckshot and a hell of a lot further than birdshot.
And whatever instructor advised using birdshot should stop instructing.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
^^^^^^ What he said. Two years ago a close cousin of mine fell victim to a home invasion. Long story short, he took two rounds of 12 ga. #6 birdshot, one from across the bedroom and one with the muzzle inches from his left thigh. He did survive and made a full recovery. Still having pellets pushing out of the skin today. The birdshot did not put him out of the fight. He was able to fight on and live another day. I know thats just one instance, but birdshot is not what I'd like to bet my life/family on.
^^^^^^ What he said. Two years ago a close cousin of mine fell victim to a home invasion. Long story short, he took two rounds of 12 ga. #6 birdshot, one from across the bedroom and one with the muzzle inches from his left thigh. He did survive and made a full recovery. Still having pellets pushing out of the skin today. The birdshot did not put him out of the fight. He was able to fight on and live another day. I know thats just one instance, but birdshot is not what I'd like to bet my life/family on.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
I keep tube full of #4 in a Mossberg 930.
Anyone try using these?
http://www.ddupleks.lv/EN/ddupleks_products/show/Hexolit32
I keep tube full of #4 in a Mossberg 930.
Anyone try using these?
http://www.ddupleks.lv/EN/ddupleks_products/show/Hexolit32
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
To answer question.....AR is ready, so is handgun. Don't think too much into managing the unknown. Keep them loaded and close. Understand that you will be reacting to a threat on your life.
To answer question.....AR is ready, so is handgun. Don't think too much into managing the unknown. Keep them loaded and close. Understand that you will be reacting to a threat on your life.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zinny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">an instructor at a range once told me the best home defense combination is a shotgun with bird shot. low recoil, low penetration, wide spread, makes it perfect for home defense. </div></div>
Tell that to a friend of Dick Cheney. He got shot with one in the head! Still plays golf...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zinny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">an instructor at a range once told me the best home defense combination is a shotgun with bird shot. low recoil, low penetration, wide spread, makes it perfect for home defense. </div></div>
Tell that to a friend of Dick Cheney. He got shot with one in the head! Still plays golf...
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VYD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zinny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">an instructor at a range once told me the best home defense combination is a shotgun with bird shot. low recoil, low penetration, wide spread, makes it perfect for home defense. </div></div>
Tell that to a friend of Dick Cheney. He got shot with one in the head! Still plays golf...</div></div>
That guy only lived because the VP shot him. If that would have been anyone else not by the VP medical care.
I use a handgun or a AR loaded with 45gr BT at max vel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VYD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zinny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">an instructor at a range once told me the best home defense combination is a shotgun with bird shot. low recoil, low penetration, wide spread, makes it perfect for home defense. </div></div>
Tell that to a friend of Dick Cheney. He got shot with one in the head! Still plays golf...</div></div>
That guy only lived because the VP shot him. If that would have been anyone else not by the VP medical care.
I use a handgun or a AR loaded with 45gr BT at max vel.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I keep this little guy close by, and a 1911 even closer. While a shotgun may work well, I'll take the capacity, rate of fire and the ability to stay on target offered by the AR platform.
</div></div> +1 ar is my choice also!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I keep this little guy close by, and a 1911 even closer. While a shotgun may work well, I'll take the capacity, rate of fire and the ability to stay on target offered by the AR platform.
</div></div> +1 ar is my choice also!
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
1911 in the recliner, g23 and mossberg 500 in the bedroom, with a g22 in between.
I use all of em for home defense if necessary. I alternate the rounds in my shotgun. Run birdshot, 00, 1oz slug and then it repeats. The extras are stacked in the side saddle just the same. I also have a bean bag round in the saddle as well, just in case I wanna have some fun!
1911 in the recliner, g23 and mossberg 500 in the bedroom, with a g22 in between.
I use all of em for home defense if necessary. I alternate the rounds in my shotgun. Run birdshot, 00, 1oz slug and then it repeats. The extras are stacked in the side saddle just the same. I also have a bean bag round in the saddle as well, just in case I wanna have some fun!
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rpk762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That guy only lived because the VP shot him. If that would have been anyone else not by the VP medical care.
</div></div>
You are missing the point here. Re-read the thread.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rpk762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That guy only lived because the VP shot him. If that would have been anyone else not by the VP medical care.
</div></div>
You are missing the point here. Re-read the thread.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
Great study on the performance of AR and M14 in a CQB situatiuon. Of course there are various other rounds we can put in our AR's that would prove more effective than the standard M855 round.
http://wstiac.alionscience.com/pdf/WQV8N1_ART01.pdf
Great study on the performance of AR and M14 in a CQB situatiuon. Of course there are various other rounds we can put in our AR's that would prove more effective than the standard M855 round.
http://wstiac.alionscience.com/pdf/WQV8N1_ART01.pdf
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
Varmint rounds, the vmax and such, are great choices in the AR for the reasons of very very little, if any, overpenetration. A handgun round will penetrate WALLS better than SOME (read varmint) AR rounds. We're not talking FMJ's in ballistics gelatin.
At "house" distances, which should be bedroom distance (since why are you leaving your bedroom to confront someone? After all, they aren't a threat unless they are in the same room as you) a shotgun with any load/choke still makes one ragged hole. Try it at the range sometime. I hate it when people say "i use a shotgun cause of the spread it's easier to hit, I just point and shoot"
What I want you to think about though, is perception. I don't know what BC's laws about home defense are, and every state here varies in the leniency. But I would much rather be standing in front of a judge or jury with a plain jane shotgun than a tacticaled up AR. You don't know how any of them will view firearms, even for self defense purposes. It sounds silly but it's the reality when around non-gun people. AR's are "assault weapons" with a bad stigma about them, they are made for killing. Shotguns have the stigma of sporting and defense use. In the scrutiny from investigation into any self defense shooting I may or may not be involved in, I want any advantage to make it go smoother and easier for me. I would rather look like I was forced into defending myself, than "out for blood" when using an AR.
Varmint rounds, the vmax and such, are great choices in the AR for the reasons of very very little, if any, overpenetration. A handgun round will penetrate WALLS better than SOME (read varmint) AR rounds. We're not talking FMJ's in ballistics gelatin.
At "house" distances, which should be bedroom distance (since why are you leaving your bedroom to confront someone? After all, they aren't a threat unless they are in the same room as you) a shotgun with any load/choke still makes one ragged hole. Try it at the range sometime. I hate it when people say "i use a shotgun cause of the spread it's easier to hit, I just point and shoot"
What I want you to think about though, is perception. I don't know what BC's laws about home defense are, and every state here varies in the leniency. But I would much rather be standing in front of a judge or jury with a plain jane shotgun than a tacticaled up AR. You don't know how any of them will view firearms, even for self defense purposes. It sounds silly but it's the reality when around non-gun people. AR's are "assault weapons" with a bad stigma about them, they are made for killing. Shotguns have the stigma of sporting and defense use. In the scrutiny from investigation into any self defense shooting I may or may not be involved in, I want any advantage to make it go smoother and easier for me. I would rather look like I was forced into defending myself, than "out for blood" when using an AR.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
People need to accept the fact that anything you should want to use on another person is damned well going to go through at least several interior walls without stopping.
Dr. Robert's discussions on M4Carbine are some of the best accumulations of information and research available:
http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91
People need to accept the fact that anything you should want to use on another person is damned well going to go through at least several interior walls without stopping.
Dr. Robert's discussions on M4Carbine are some of the best accumulations of information and research available:
http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Varmint rounds, the vmax and such, are great choices in the AR for the reasons of very very little, if any, overpenetration. A handgun round will penetrate WALLS better than SOME (read varmint) AR rounds. We're not talking FMJ's in ballistics gelatin.
At "house" distances, which should be bedroom distance (since why are you leaving your bedroom to confront someone? After all, they aren't a threat unless they are in the same room as you) a shotgun with any load/choke still makes one ragged hole. Try it at the range sometime. I hate it when people say "i use a shotgun cause of the spread it's easier to hit, I just point and shoot"
What I want you to think about though, is perception.<span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-weight: bold"> I don't know what BC's laws about home defense are, and every state here varies in the leniency. But I would much rather be standing in front of a judge or jury with a plain jane shotgun than a tacticaled up </span>AR.</span> You don't know how any of them will view firearms, even for self defense purposes. It sounds silly but it's the reality when around non-gun people. AR's are "assault weapons" with a bad stigma about them, they are made for killing. Shotguns have the stigma of sporting and defense use. In the scrutiny from investigation into any self defense shooting I may or may not be involved in, I want any advantage to make it go smoother and easier for me. I would rather look like I was forced into defending myself, than "out for blood" when using an AR. </div></div>
That is definitely something to put thought into before you are in a situation where lethal force is required, can I defend my actions? Sometimes the perception of a random person on the street is more important than the truth not saying its right but it is what it is. In my concealed carry class the instructor who is a personal friend of mine made a few very good points.
1. You can not be wrong when you shoot somebody, but you also must defend yourself
2. You will get sued when you shoot somebody. (uncle bobby the rapist becomes uncle bobby the philanthropist (civil not criminal)
3. You are shooting to stop the attack.
Another thing he said that is a good idea when choosing defensive ammo is to find out what your local law enforcement uses. And keep in mind usually you have at least three local law enforcement agencies to choose from (City, State, and County.) This way when presented with the question in court, "Why where you using that particular man killing ammo"
You can say
"It is what local law enforcement uses and they are the 'good guys'"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pdogsbeware</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Varmint rounds, the vmax and such, are great choices in the AR for the reasons of very very little, if any, overpenetration. A handgun round will penetrate WALLS better than SOME (read varmint) AR rounds. We're not talking FMJ's in ballistics gelatin.
At "house" distances, which should be bedroom distance (since why are you leaving your bedroom to confront someone? After all, they aren't a threat unless they are in the same room as you) a shotgun with any load/choke still makes one ragged hole. Try it at the range sometime. I hate it when people say "i use a shotgun cause of the spread it's easier to hit, I just point and shoot"
What I want you to think about though, is perception.<span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-weight: bold"> I don't know what BC's laws about home defense are, and every state here varies in the leniency. But I would much rather be standing in front of a judge or jury with a plain jane shotgun than a tacticaled up </span>AR.</span> You don't know how any of them will view firearms, even for self defense purposes. It sounds silly but it's the reality when around non-gun people. AR's are "assault weapons" with a bad stigma about them, they are made for killing. Shotguns have the stigma of sporting and defense use. In the scrutiny from investigation into any self defense shooting I may or may not be involved in, I want any advantage to make it go smoother and easier for me. I would rather look like I was forced into defending myself, than "out for blood" when using an AR. </div></div>
That is definitely something to put thought into before you are in a situation where lethal force is required, can I defend my actions? Sometimes the perception of a random person on the street is more important than the truth not saying its right but it is what it is. In my concealed carry class the instructor who is a personal friend of mine made a few very good points.
1. You can not be wrong when you shoot somebody, but you also must defend yourself
2. You will get sued when you shoot somebody. (uncle bobby the rapist becomes uncle bobby the philanthropist (civil not criminal)
3. You are shooting to stop the attack.
Another thing he said that is a good idea when choosing defensive ammo is to find out what your local law enforcement uses. And keep in mind usually you have at least three local law enforcement agencies to choose from (City, State, and County.) This way when presented with the question in court, "Why where you using that particular man killing ammo"
You can say
"It is what local law enforcement uses and they are the 'good guys'"
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Arbiter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People need to accept the fact that anything you should want to use on another person is damned well going to go through at least several interior walls without stopping.
Dr. Robert's discussions on M4Carbine are some of the best accumulations of information and research available:
http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91 </div></div>
GREAT STUFF!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Arbiter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People need to accept the fact that anything you should want to use on another person is damned well going to go through at least several interior walls without stopping.
Dr. Robert's discussions on M4Carbine are some of the best accumulations of information and research available:
http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91 </div></div>
GREAT STUFF!!!!
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AKayl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another thing he said that is a good idea when choosing defensive ammo is to find out what your local law enforcement uses. And keep in mind usually you have at least three local law enforcement agencies to choose from (City, State, and County.) This way when presented with the question in court, "Why where you using that particular man killing ammo"
You can say
"It is what local law enforcement uses and they are the 'good guys'"
</div></div>
I really like that! Great idea! Time to call up my county sheriff. It's a lot better than having to say I picked Acme brand because they perform the best. I can't believe I never thought about having to say that to a judge...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AKayl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another thing he said that is a good idea when choosing defensive ammo is to find out what your local law enforcement uses. And keep in mind usually you have at least three local law enforcement agencies to choose from (City, State, and County.) This way when presented with the question in court, "Why where you using that particular man killing ammo"
You can say
"It is what local law enforcement uses and they are the 'good guys'"
</div></div>
I really like that! Great idea! Time to call up my county sheriff. It's a lot better than having to say I picked Acme brand because they perform the best. I can't believe I never thought about having to say that to a judge...
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
Wait, so is 9mm better than .45 or was it the other way around?
Wait, so is 9mm better than .45 or was it the other way around?
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
Everyone needs a scar17 sbr and a STI 40 with 20 round mags with body armor next to the bed do when shit hits the fan they are ready. Add to that a gun in every drawer of the house like the movies and a safe room and make sure to use tungsten penetrator rounds in the scar so if the assault team raiding your house has bodyarmor. Ya never know
You guys are fucking rediculous, all this real world experience coming out in this thread is awesome.
Everyone needs a scar17 sbr and a STI 40 with 20 round mags with body armor next to the bed do when shit hits the fan they are ready. Add to that a gun in every drawer of the house like the movies and a safe room and make sure to use tungsten penetrator rounds in the scar so if the assault team raiding your house has bodyarmor. Ya never know
You guys are fucking rediculous, all this real world experience coming out in this thread is awesome.
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
Joe, what about a gatling gun 12g?
Joe, what about a gatling gun 12g?
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
I have a 590 loaded with 00 buck next to my bed. The reason I don't use my AR15s for home defense is the same reason that we usually got the Benelli M4 loaded with 00 buck up to whoever was on point when kicking in a doors in Iraq . . . it works very well in these situations. The M4s and M16s had their time to shine outside, but inside they usually followed after the Benelli. On a side note, I really miss that damn Benelli M4!
I have a 590 loaded with 00 buck next to my bed. The reason I don't use my AR15s for home defense is the same reason that we usually got the Benelli M4 loaded with 00 buck up to whoever was on point when kicking in a doors in Iraq . . . it works very well in these situations. The M4s and M16s had their time to shine outside, but inside they usually followed after the Benelli. On a side note, I really miss that damn Benelli M4!
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
yep great weapons, i will buy one eventually
yep great weapons, i will buy one eventually
Re: AR vs Shottie for Home Defense
First post...I think. So Hello fellow gun enthusiasts! Personally I want all of them IF I NEED them. I'd say a SG with 00 buck would be my first choice but really like an AR pistol with 30 rounds of Hornady TAP ammo or similar factory loaded ammo close by. More than likely IMO, both the intruder and the victim will be under a great deal of stress...if not from a gunshot wound, just the noise and temporary blindness from muzzle flash in a dark room. So I'd opt for low flash ammo for PP loads. Hornady, and I'm sure others produce ammo with this in mind. Belated Merry Christmas!--Mike Ezell
First post...I think. So Hello fellow gun enthusiasts! Personally I want all of them IF I NEED them. I'd say a SG with 00 buck would be my first choice but really like an AR pistol with 30 rounds of Hornady TAP ammo or similar factory loaded ammo close by. More than likely IMO, both the intruder and the victim will be under a great deal of stress...if not from a gunshot wound, just the noise and temporary blindness from muzzle flash in a dark room. So I'd opt for low flash ammo for PP loads. Hornady, and I'm sure others produce ammo with this in mind. Belated Merry Christmas!--Mike Ezell
