Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

[Headgear]

I just got a new arbor press and Wilson hand dies. I Got it all cleaned and set up and started making some test loads and found that the seating depth was varying any where from 2.209 to 2.212 to the ogive. I was trying for 2.212 which is touching the lands in my rifle.

I am seating 168 Amax's in Lapua brass. I am using a comparator and measuring at the ogive. The seating stem however,does no seat on the ogive, but roughly half way between the meplat and the ogive.

The only discrepancy that I can visualize is that there can be up to a .003 difference in length between the ogive and the point that the seating stem contacts the bullet. I know that there can be differences in length of bullets from base to meplat but the above seems pretty extreme in such a short distance. There is only a 1/4" +/- of bullet between the two areas.

Can this be so, or do you think I am missing something?

I'm having a hard time believing that there could be that much difference in such a short space. I'm trying to get my loads as close to identical to each other and this has me scratching my head.

Thanks!

 

[SPAK]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

I've seen even more variance than .003" with the amax bullets when seating. That's not too bad really. I started seating about .010" long and then adjusting my micrometer to finish the seating to my final depth.

I use a redding comp seater though, not a wilson.

 

[distantfoe]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

Make sure the top of the die and seating stem assembly are clean. Could be something there preveting the stem from traveling all the way home.

Most likely the issue is with the consistentcy of your bullets.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

Sort all your bullets by Ojive length, now when you seat them they will all be very close, too much neck tension or lack of somekind of lube inside the neck can affect consistentcy, I have a K&M arbor press with force attachment, I have noticed any case requiring more than 50 pounds of force to seat the bullet can cause my seating depth to be off.

 

[Headgear]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sort all your bullets by Ojive length, now when you seat them they will all be very close</div></div>

That's a great idea. That's what I love about this site, You guys are just good! If it is the bullets, that should tell the tail. It almost has to be the bullets because I cleaned the dies with brake parts cleaner. They're clean!

I got the K&M with the force meter also and I did notice quite a lot of variation in seating pressure. It's brand new Lapua. I would guess that it will get a little better after being fire formed and then neck sized.

What do you use for neck lube? I just got some Imperial dry neck lube. Haven't had a chance to try it yet. Is it good stuff or is there something better?

Thanks again!

 

[SPAK]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

I like the neco moly powder. My seating consistency improved when using it. I still get the occasional variance, but I don't sort by ogive...yet

The lube did help the seating effor though.

I've heard of some guys using imperial wax, but I dont know about using petroleum based products possibly contaminating the powder.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

Wax in the neck causes powder kernels to stick to it, yes I learned that the hardway, I have the NECO kit coming, tried graphite powder and BBs but they were too big and my coverage inside the neck left alot to be desired.

 

[SPAK]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

I've been coating the bottom half of the bullet rather than the neck itself and I've found it to be a lot easier and cleaner to use that way. This way I can charge all my loads first, dip the bullet then seat. After dipping case necks a few times and having to wipe the outside moly off, it got old pretty fast.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

Hmm

 

[thefitter]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sort all your bullets by Ojive length, now when you seat them they will all be very close, too much neck tension or lack of somekind of lube inside the neck can affect consistentcy, I have a K&M arbor press with force attachment, I have noticed any case requiring more than 50 pounds of force to seat the bullet can cause my seating depth to be off. </div></div>

I need to jump in here with a basic question. The lube inside the case neck you are referring to is sizing lube?

I have been running my brass through the tumbler to remove left over sizing lube and chips from trimming. Therefore my brass is squeaky clean when I'm seating the bullets. Are you saying this causes inconsistency in seating depth even with a micrometer seating die?

 

[madd0c]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

I wouldn't use sizing lube, I believe they are talking about dry neck lubes. Mica or Graphite.
Imperial makes a nice bottle with ceramic beads in it that has graphite over them and it works well for neck sizing and bullet seating. You can add more graphite also when needed.
madd0c

 

[SPAK]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

squeaky clean necks tend to have more friction when seating and require more seating pressure. Yes, this can affect your seating depth inconsistency.

Stay with the dry lubes as mentioned before. There's less risk to contaminate the powder than with sizing lube which is usually petroleum based.

I once tried using a very small amount of imperial sizing wax on the bullet bearing surface when seating in the past. Took a cotton tip dipped it in the wax and ran it along the bearing surface. It worked ok, but again, the contamination. Some guys still do it. But once I started using the neco I haven't gone back.

 

[Headgear]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

Wait a minute guys. Are we all forgetting the miracle wax from the "I shouldn't give away the secret" thread? What are we doing waisting our time talking about this old dry stuff for?

 

[bosulli]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

Same problem here. With a Wilson seater I am getting .003 variance. ALthough I have bigger fish to fry than .003 variance in bullet seating. I am going to sort by ogive, clean the die, and try out the dry stuff. Or if anybody has the number for NASA, I will try out the space shuttle wax that everybody is talking about.

 

[bosulli]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

Did clean up the Wilson seater. There was some crud and bits of powder in the base. Seating consistency did improve, but there is still an occasional variation of .003.

I am going to start to measure the ogive of a unseated bullet to check the consistency.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

If you are using "brand new Lapua" brass, are you running the brass over an expander (either a mandrel or a F/L die with a button) to loosen the necks a bit first? Brand new Lapua brass, in my experience, has gawd-awful high neck tension and needs opened up a smidge first. The high seating force may be contributing somewhat to your seating depth inconsistencies.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Arbor/hand die seating inconsistency

No secret lube to answer "Headgear". Lock Ease or HxBN suspended in alcohol...spread a little around inside the polished neck of the case with a Q-Tip. When the alcohol dries out, powder doesn't stick to to the neck, the seating effort is reduced markedly, and the resistance to seating is more uniform. JMHO