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Are you tired of wasting time?

Xshot

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 21, 2009
294
284
71
Evansville, WI
While walking back from my target I got to thinking about the time and daylight I'm wasting. Supposedly, I'm here to tune a load, sight in a new optic, or test a new build. Instead, I'm hiking back and forth over the same 100, 200, 300 and 1000 yard trail and the scenery is not changing very much.

Boy... I wish I could stay seated at my bench and review each individual shot with precision. Oh, and it would be great if I could then download my target(s) to my computer for notation and future reference. And what if this same device, also, let me keep an eye on a game trail, clearing or watering hole up to a mile from where I’m sitting day or night - real time or digitally recorded.

Hmmm... I'll bet I could integrate the game caller, I built, into it too! Think I'll order the components and build me one.

Anyone else having similar thought?
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

That would be pretty cool...being able to download targets for reference would be sweet! I know a lot of my targets end up disappearing...

It would be neat to overlay different targets and groups with various loads/external conditions too!
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

There were some threads/posts a while back about a remote camera setup for just this sort of thing in conjunction with a small portable DVD-size screen for viewing. I can't recall all the details, but it wouldn't be a stretch, depending on the camera, to capture digital stills for the downloads/future ref you mentioned. You might try running a search and see what you can use/adapt for your purposes.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

It already exists but is very expensive, the last SHC they brought the unit out for use.

Wireless and electronically...

http://www.oakwoodcontrols.com/

wadestuteville.png


In use in the field

26261_372722882446_318879107446_4252080_5324070_n.jpg


How it matched to the target
26261_372722902446_318879107446_4252084_3711123_n.jpg


But there are more than a few ways to skin this cat and most are already out there, you just have to know what you want and where to look.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

Lowlight said:
It already exists but is very expensive, the last SHC they brought the unit out for use.

I wasn't aware of this product - thanks for the link. I visited their site and came away with the impression that the actual target is framed by active sensors. While working through my solution, I initially started with something similar, but rule out any components on, or near the target no matter how small or well protected.

My design goals:
- support multiple shooting and hunting needs
- wireless
- night vision capable
- real time display of activity and/or recorded
* motion activation capable
* selectable frame rate capable
- long operating range (> 1000 yards)
- use any popular video editing software for target/object
analysis and storage

Needs to cost no more than a high end spotting scope.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

Sumpter - that's pretty neat!

What I'm building must not only solve my shooting range issues. It also has to aid my exploration and evaluation of new hunting sites. In addition, when hunting deer and varmints I seem to always we torn between 2 different stands. This may solve my conflict by keeping an eye on both.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: honkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Couldnt you rig up something simple using wifi?
Like put a camra on the spot your shooting, and via wifi watch it on a laptop? </div></div>

That could be made to work for short distances. Wouldn't fit all my needs though.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

Last year a built a wireless game caller. I used an ipod nano for the source. There's a plethora of calls on the web you can download for free. Very portable unit, except for when I want to use a pair of 12" loudspeakers, and it works great!

Now I'm thinking it would be cool to have a single portable unit to fit all my shooting and hunting needs (remotely observe, listen and call).
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, I too had asked this in a thread that I'd started. Couple of years ago, IIRC. I did find this thread for you though, just scroll up to the top and giv'er.

http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads....449#Post1240449

(not sure how to link the beginning of the thread, just my post) </div></div>

Thanks for the link, it was an interesting read. An ethernet wired/wireless video system could be made to work pretty well at a dedicated range. Distance is the enemy of wireless ethernet unless you move up to microwave transceivers, but that's really expensive. Electronics are my hobby, but I did do a 35 year stint in IT.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

What you are looking for already exists. It really depends how much you want to spend and/or how handy your are in electronics.
To start off, one would need to find a video transmitter kit that will be used to transmit video from your target to your shooting location. To start off, the best frequency to go with would be 2.4ghz. which works best line of site. The newer 5.8ghz. would work just as well but may be more expensive. These units can be found very easily on the internet and depending on how powerful they are will determine how expensive. When hoping to go 1k or more you will need at least a .5 watt/500milliwatt transmitter. We use a 1 watt unit and easily get 1 mile with ours. Now when looking for these units, they will probably be sold with omni-directional antennas. You will want to purchase DIRECTIONAL antennas, flat panel type, with at least 15DB gain.
These can easily be found for a round $100. Just make sure they have the ability to connect from the transmitter to the antenna with the correct connector. Usually SMA or F type is most common. You will want to purchase one for each transmitter and one for your receiver. A cable of at least 6 feet between the antenna and the transmitter and/or receiver will work best.
Now on the receiver side you will want to purchase a 4 channel receiver with a selector switch. This will give you the opportunity to use more than one transmitter, usually up to 4 and maybe even 8, depending on the system you purchase.
The good news is that on the receiver side, you only need one antenna since most units frequencies will be spread out far enough not to cause bleed over from the other channels.
Next we will discuss picking out a camera for your system. The most obvious choice would be a color camera since most shooting will take place in the daytime, but if you wanted to use it at night you could get a day/night camera that is color in the daytime and black&white at night. You could also get a unit that uses infrared lights to enhance a low light or no light environment. Some specs to look for when picking out a camera would be:
1) 12volt. As a matter of fact everything in the system you are building should be 12volt so everything is powered by one battery system which I will explain later.
2) Auto iris lens. This will allow the lens to automatically adjust to the amount of light the lens allows into the camera so the image won't appear whited out or too dark. Now some cameras use electronic shutters that have fixed lenses but these are inferior to auto iris lenses.
3) Varifocal lens. Just like your rifle scopes, this allows you to zoom in and out of your target, so you can adjust the image to fit what you want in the monitor. These can be manual or automatic depending on what you want to spend.
4) The lines of resolution should be at least 420 lines, the higher the number the better. Don't waste your money above 520. You wont get the benefit without upgrading the rest of you're system and monitor.

The next thing we will cover is a monitor for the unit. The size of the monitor and what powers it will depend on the location you shoot at. Will you have power at your shooting location? If not, the bigger the monitor the more power it will take to run it. We use a 9 inch tv/monitor that runs on batteries and is also 12volt. We purchased it at OFFICE DEPOT for less than a $100 and works very well and is easily transportable if you shoot in an out of the way place. It is very important that whatever size/type monitor you purchase that it has an RCA video input to be connected to your receiver.

To power the system, we use 12 volt batteries for everything. Each location will need a 12 volt power source. There are several different types to use and money well spent now will save you in the long run. The least desirable would be the use of batteries. D or C size batteries will provide more than enough power and will need to be set up in series to make them 12 volt. 8 batteries (D or C) will be connected positive to negative like you see in a flash light. Since each battery is 1.5 volts, 8 in series will equal 12 volts. If you felt the need to do it this way at least get rechargeable.
The next option would be to purchase a 12volt battery pack in nicad or nickel metal hydride. These can be found in many locations on the web. You will want at least a 5 amp hour or bigger unit for each transmitter, and at least a 10 amp hour unit for the receiver/monitor side.
The most desirable, and the one we use, would be 12volt lead acid type battery. We use a 20 amp hour battery that is rechargeable, and we placed it in a small pelican case with a 12 volt cigarette lighter plug. This way the unit has a handle and is weather resistant when left at the target location. The case has the female end, and the equipment is all connected to a male end plug so all we do is plug it in, and the camera, transmitter, automatically turns on when plugged in.
Some other accessories to consider would be a housing for your camera/transmitter unit. These can be purchased where most cameras are purchased and are usually about 12 inches long and cylindrical and open up like a clam-shell. Since we shoot in South Florida, rain can happen at any time and this will definitely protect your equipment from the elements.
Another important thing to consider would be a tripod to set your equipment up on. All tripods use a 1/4 - 20 connector and all cameras use that universal connection also. This allows you to set up the camera where you want at the ideal height and position to your target. We use a tripod at the transmitter/camera side and face the antenna back to where we shoot and face and adjust the camera towards our target. Then we have an antenna on a tripod at the receiver end and face it towards the transmitter/camera.
If there is enough interest, I could draw up plans for this and show photos of our equipment and how it is set up. The system could be obtained for a reasonable amount of money and will definitely spoil you when you are shooting at 1k and farther and see actual bullet strikes.
While it can definitely cause some bad habits, I easily shoot out from 1k to a mile, and after firing, look up and actually see our steel plates being stuck and swinging a few seconds after firing. Let me know.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

keithtb1 - I didn't think I would get a response like yours.

We're both thinking along the similar lines. I pretty much have everything I need in-house. However, I did need to order a transmitter and receiver set. I went with a 2.4ghz rated @ 2 watts. I'm going with the higher power and omni-directional antenna, so that I can roam around with the receiver. I do have a set of 2.4ghz directional antennas, if needed.

Thanks for sharing.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

XShot, if you're thinking of roaming around and have the chance to get a 1.2 ghz or 900 mhz type unit you would find it will work much better at going through objects like trees, walls etc. Good luck and if you need any help, let me know. Been doing this for about fifteen years for several agencies.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

Another thing to mention, Brought up by Sean the Nailer, you could easily and for less money, do a hard wire system for those of you who have access to personal land and were interested in making a semi-permanent install. The good thing about hard-wiring is the picture would always be Rock steady, you could send power down the same video cable, which means you would only need power by your shooting area, and you could set up several cameras at different distances. Say, 300,400,500 etc and just use a video selector to view each one on one monitor. A decent video selector can be purchased for less than $100. You could also role up the cable if you wanted to, as needed, during winter time and were not going to shoot for a while.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

This is an extremely interesting topic. Thanks Keith, X, et al.

Keep it coming.

Part II can be sonic/optical impact transpositioning. Really fancy wording for where the bullet went "thunk".
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jmorris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use one of these.

http://www.boostervision.com/boostervision/default.asp

Light and only takes 1 9v battery and 1 12 volt. </div></div>

Reminds me that I want to put a camera like this on the cat that lives in my shop. He's a killing machine and leaves his kills, mostly rodents, everywhere. I would really like to know what he's up to and where all he goes.

<span style="font-weight: bold">This next story it the Truth:</span> One day, last spring, I stepped out of my shop and a large doe about ran me down and she was hell bent for the marsh. 10 - 15 feet behind the doe is this cat. He chased her until she jumped the barbed wire fence. Since then I have seen him stalking or standing off many deer. Now when I hear deer snorting and stomping, I know the cat is messing with them.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

keithtb1 - I agree a wired system would be ideal for a dedicated range setup. I'm going the wireless route so I can use it for other hunting.

I hear you about using lower frequencies for wooded/brushy areas. The price was right for the point-to-point 2.4GHz set I purchased. Should work okay for the range behind my home and watching wood lines.

If I like the results - image quality & distance - I'm likely to pick up a 900MHz or 1.2GHz set with a multiple channel receiver to operate multiple cameras. It's more money, but I will have proved the concept and components I selected.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

keithtb1:

If you can spare the time I'm very interested in seeing pics of your setup and a parts list. My buddy has the electronics knowledge to do it if I get him the parts.

In your experience, is there a way to use one camera (is the FOV adequate, while allowing for distance to reduce chance of killing camera) to see both a steel target and a paper target side by side (with 3 feet in between)?

Then again, if this works well then maybe lugging steel at the farthest ranges is no longer necessary.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

I didn't read through every post, but what about the use of repeaters to extend your range going the wireless route? I know thats something that various police and military groups use with communications over long distances. Not sure how practical or cost effect it would be though.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

Xshot My design goals: - support multiple shooting and hunting needs <span style="color: #FF0000"> ???? Means what?</span> - wireless <span style="color: #FF0000">Easy.</span> - night vision capable <span style="color: #FF0000">IR LED</span> - real time display of activity and/or recorded <span style="color: #FF0000">Life view +chdk</span> * motion activation capable <span style="color: #FF0000">Canon + CHDK Or PC software if streaming</span> * selectable frame rate capable <span style="color: #FF0000"> Time Lapse = Yes. High speed vid = no due to $$$ </span> - long operating range (> 1000 yards) <span style="color: #FF0000"> Wireless device selection + antenna</span> - use any popular video editing software for target/object analysis and storage Needs to cost no more than a high end spotting scope. [/quote said:
How much is the "high end spotting scope" you are using for comparison?
If you can find a canon compact which supports life view + CHDK then you can use that. I use one now and set the time lapse to take a shot every 15 seconds or so. Mine does not have life view (or whatever they call it. It also has motion sensing BUT this does not work well for projectile/target interfacing. It does not trigger.
You will not get high speed video for a reasonable price.
I would use a camera and time lapse + video camera doing recording at the target. Cheaper and you end up with a more workable system.

I can build what you want now, it's really easy. Everything off the shelf.
If you want high speed video you are dreaming though.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

ColBatGuano,
to answer your questions, yes I'm working on a simple list now and hope to post by tomorrow.
and yes, we have a steel target setup at 1000yds which has 3 different size steel: one 36" double plate for confirming wind, one 12" plate to confirm our zero and one 6" plate to keep us pissed for most of the day chasing it
smile.gif

It is spread out 8 feet wide and we setup our camera to view all three at the same time. We can see every hit like your right there.

Rero360,
The use of a repeater would be unnecessary and expensive. The true secret to good wireless video, is the use of good directional antennas in the 15+ db gain. One on the Transmitter and one on the receiver facing each other.
Had one of my students from Texas several years ago send me a video of a deer feeder he had on his property. It was located on a hill about 2.5 miles away from his house. He set up a camera and transmitter at the feeder and used a solar panel to keep the battery charged and he would watch and record video from his den at his house. Sent him a PIR unit that would allow the camera to go into standby mode and record for 5 minutes when something passed by the camera. He only used a half watt (.5) transmitter and his video was rock steady.
So you see the use of good equipment(not expensive) will work just fine for what we want to accomplish.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

AUJohn - thanks for the offer, but I have pretty much everything I need. Besides, for me building it is half the fun.

I reference my hunting needs earlier in the thread.

Motion avtivated: I'll used either a motion sensing DVR or a PIR sensor.

Selectable frame rate: Variable time lapse. High speed video not required.

Cost: (< $600.00) I don't want to replace my old spotting scope just for long range target shooting, because it fine for all other applications.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

I was not offering, just saying what you want can be done easily
wink.gif


It will be interesting to see where you actually end up. I bet it's quite far from where you think you will be when the project is done.


Eye-Fi Pro + solar/battery router and decent Antennas.
I could do it for a few hundred. Should be easy enough if your in the US as you have a far greater choice and cheaper parts.
Everything can be bought ready to go and off the shelf
smile.gif
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

A suggestion for a low budget approach for folks that are interested in just monitoring their target at a short distance say 100 yards. Most decent spotting scopes have a digital camera adapter and there are also some generic camera adapters. Hang a digital camera on your spotting scope focused on the target, power the cam with your laptop & the USB cable. Most camera software allows you to remotely operate the camera so that you can snap a pic from the keyboard or capture video. Now you can monitor your target, capture the shot sequence etc. without getting up from the bench, no need for all the wireless gear for a short distance. Yeah, you might have to deal with mirage and a little less optimal video depending on the spotting scope quality. On the flip side, there might be some advantage to the setup as you could gauge your shot placement based on the mirage you were seeing and perhaps learn from the result.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rero360</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't read through every post, but what about the use of repeaters to extend your range going the wireless route? I know thats something that various police and military groups use with communications over long distances. Not sure how practical or cost effect it would be though. </div></div>

Even the cheap ones like I linked to in my last post are very good "line of sight". The good thing is you have that at any target you intend to shoot.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

$69 camera RX/TX and $49 booster antenna works over 1000 yards. The receiver has 4 channels so you can switch from one camera to another with the push of a button. Extra cameras are around $50.

You’ll also have to abscond with the kids DVD player, borrow the 12V battery from the deer feeder and find a good box to carry it all for you.
DSC02138.jpg
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

That's the idea! God knows I need the exercise, but that walk/ride gets old fast, if your working up loads for different bullets or shooting more than one rifle in a session.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

Today I shot some targets with my wireless video system. I tested at 200 yards (unobstructed line of site) and at 250 yards. At 250 yards the camera and transmitter were completely out of site and behind 150 yards of reeds and shrubs - think marsh and tree 30 yards in front of the receiver. In both situations the picture is clear and rock steady.

For now I'm using a 25 year old Sony 5" portable Color TV/Monitor. It's the old analog CRT technology. The first 7" LCD monitor I picked up was DOA and had to be return. I've got another one on the way. The 30 caliber bullet holes, even overlapping ones, were easily picked up. I'm thinking the 7" monitor will provide a large and crisper image.

I've got a small, pistol size, Pelican type case that I'll use to mount the LCD monitor, battery and other components into. Once I've done this I'll conduct some longer range tests and post some examples and pictures of the equipment.


Oh... it was great to shoot multiple targets and never feel the need to leave the bench or fiddle with a spotting scope.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

This is a good idea. I will have to look into a setup for this, as well. Thanks for the info, guys.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

I wonder if those of us who have wireless hotspots on our phones could utilize that feature for this?

Not much of a tech guy, but one would think that the 3G hotspot could be utilized.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

It's an interesting project with many other outdoor uses besides the range (see my earlier posts). I enjoy technology and integration projects.

Besides the video, audio and recording technology, I'm paying close attention to the packaging and its ease of transport. I don't want to be fiddling with wires, cables and batteries after lugging them to the site of operation. In addition, everything needs to be powered by on-board power supplies (i.e. remotes and base station). The goal is to have a full day of operation without recharging. I also plan to make it easy to use external power sources (AC/DC) whenever nearby and readily available. This will allow a motion activated remote camera, DVR and IR lighting to be left in place for a few days unattended.

For those following this thread - I'm sourcing components with the idea others may want these capabilities. But I've got lots more testing to do. Moreover, I want to check with Frank to make sure I follow all the forum rules.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

JMorris-

I love the set-up!

The X10 camera that the boostervision gearcam is based on has a 60 degree field of view with 380 tv lines of resolution - is that enough to see 30 cal holes on a small 7" screen given a large enough field of view for shooting at 1000 yards? And how close/far do you put your camera to get an appropriate field of view at 1000 yards?

$~120-$140 for the camera and receivers, plus $70 for a 7" screen sounds like a steal.

Thanks
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uhcoog1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JMorris-

I love the set-up!

The X10 camera that the boostervision gearcam is based on has a 60 degree field of view with 380 tv lines of resolution - is that enough to see 30 cal holes on a small 7" screen given a large enough field of view for shooting at 1000 yards? And how close/far do you put your camera to get an appropriate field of view at 1000 yards?

$~120-$140 for the camera and receivers, plus $70 for a 7" screen sounds like a steal.

Thanks </div></div>

NTSC is the video system or standard used in North America and most of South America. In NTSC, 30 frames are transmitted each second. Each frame is made up of 525 individual scan lines.

PAL is the predominant video system or standard mostly used overseas. In PAL, 25 frames are transmitted each second. Each frame is made up of 625 individual scan lines.

It's hard to say if it will work for you. 380 scan lines are less than 75 percent of the standard. Resolution will suffer. I'm using Variable focus lens that allow camera to be place 30 feet from the target and minimally 5 feet off to the side.

I'm doing this to have one piece of equipment to solve a number of outdoor and hunting issues - day or night. The target monitoring is just one of many. And I want to minimize the need/purchase of single purpose pieces of equipment. In my case:

- My old spotting scope is fine for spotting and watching game. I don't want to purchase a new one for long range target work.

- Don't want to purchase a dedicated game camera. Besides, good ones aren't cheap.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

I responded to your PM. I'll take some pics of how I set it up and what the screen looks like next time I am out.

jm
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

I am crippled with bad feet now we are on to something that would make my life so much nicer thanks great idea kim
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sumpter Steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go to www.targetteck.com. I've been thinking about buying one of these to put on the property some day. Pretty cool. </div></div>


tag
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pale horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am crippled with bad feet now we are on to something that would make my life so much nicer thanks great idea kim </div></div>

I like to shoot and I would probably shoot more if it wasn't for the overall hassle of getting set up to shoot. Once setup there's the drudgery of running back and forth to the targets to analyze the grouping and make notations before I can shoot again. After I'm done shooting and firearms properly stored, I save the targets with the intent to take a digital picture and to record them along with typed notations. Problem is I never seem to get around to the recording and uploading phase.

Now I set up 6 - 8 targets and shoot. I look at the monitor and make a verbal analysis/comment about the shot/group - I'm recording audio too - and take the next shot. I don't leave my shooting position, until I need to change targets... sweet. The video w/audio, for each individual shot, is time/date stamped and stored on a SD memory card - making it computer ready.

It's much easier now and I have complete information.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimeMachine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't try and pimp your watch crap here. </div></div>

Which watch would I crap?
I guess you are a bit special and just a touch confused. This is a shooting forum. I'm sure there are watch forums out there though. Good luck finding the right home
wink.gif
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

Got everything integrated and functioning. The monitor is actually a small HD TV with its own internal battery. To the left is a 32Gb digital video/audio recorder that support 2 cameras.

Second photo shows the storage of the transmitter, receiver, low light IR camera and 2 - 7 amp hour batteries.

Third photo is a close-up of a 13.5 x 13.5 inch target with 12 in grid. I can put 6 of these targets up (3 x 2) and easily view each bullet hole when shooting .30 caliber. For .20 & .22 caliber I'll use 8 x 8" targets so I can zoom in closer. So far I have tested out to 600 yards and the image is crystal clear and rock solid.

I set up the system, unattended and in motion detection mode, to monitor for predators and deer. It took several 10 second film clips of... that damn cat! Works well, but I can see that I'll probably add a PIR detector with a 12 volt relay to control my HD color camera and regular white light.

All in all I'm very happy with the end result and I've met all my goals.

PA020565.jpg

PA020566.jpg

PA020563.jpg
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

That is a nice setup. Have you tried this without the DVR? Would be fun to do this that somehow transmits to say an IPHONE/IPOD app so all you needed was a camera. Just a thought. The screen on the Iphone might be to small for that.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ITGuy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is a nice setup. Have you tried this without the DVR? Would be fun to do this that somehow transmits to say an IPHONE/IPOD app so all you needed was a camera. Just a thought. The screen on the Iphone might be to small for that. </div></div>

Yes, I have operated it without the DVR in-line. There is no difference in the picture quality or range with or without the DVR. The DVR passes the live signal through to the LCD monitor unaltered, including picture-in-picture, even while recording.

Last time I checked, iPods and iPhones don't provide separate video inputs and outputs.
 
Re: Are you tired of wasting time?

just had to say,great idea,i have a lot of this stuff laying around,the mad tinkerer in me is working overtime,thanks for posting.