- Thread starter Chabrone
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Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
I don't get why .375 would be on the banned list, alot of guys actually hunt with those solids in Africa.
I don't get why .375 would be on the banned list, alot of guys actually hunt with those solids in Africa.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
^^^^maybe has a sleeker profile / higher velocity / better ballistics allowing it to be classified as an armor piercer
don't forget the ATF is a federal agency, and with that the use of common sense
is often not utilized.
this is the same agency that classified scrubbing pads as contriband as it could be used as a material for suppressors.
^^^^maybe has a sleeker profile / higher velocity / better ballistics allowing it to be classified as an armor piercer
don't forget the ATF is a federal agency, and with that the use of common sense
this is the same agency that classified scrubbing pads as contriband as it could be used as a material for suppressors.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chabrone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't get why .375 would be on the banned list, alot of guys actually hunt with those solids in Africa. </div></div>
Not anymore they don't.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chabrone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't get why .375 would be on the banned list, alot of guys actually hunt with those solids in Africa. </div></div>
Not anymore they don't.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Wow, they are really stretching. Just off the top of my head I thought that for ammo to be considered and actual AP round it has to consist of a metallic core harder than the jacket and be manufactured specifically as an armor piercing round.
Wow, they are really stretching. Just off the top of my head I thought that for ammo to be considered and actual AP round it has to consist of a metallic core harder than the jacket and be manufactured specifically as an armor piercing round.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
I dont get it! why is this bullet any more of a armor piercer than any other bullet. Are they not designed to expand being that they are for hunting.
I dont get it! why is this bullet any more of a armor piercer than any other bullet. Are they not designed to expand being that they are for hunting.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Simple. Ban lead bulliets "lead is bad"
ban solid bullets "solid is bad because it is AP"
ban brass and copper bullets "brass and copper can make solid bullets"
ban all bullets "bullets kill shit"
ban buckshot "big shot could kill shit"
ban small shot "small shot could be made into big shot"
ban people who believe in the Constitution "bad people must supress"
Simple. Ban lead bulliets "lead is bad"
ban solid bullets "solid is bad because it is AP"
ban brass and copper bullets "brass and copper can make solid bullets"
ban all bullets "bullets kill shit"
ban buckshot "big shot could kill shit"
ban small shot "small shot could be made into big shot"
ban people who believe in the Constitution "bad people must supress"
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Simple. Ban lead bulliets "lead is bad"
ban solid bullets "solid is bad because it is AP"
ban brass and copper bullets "brass and copper can make solid bullets"
ban all bullets "bullets kill shit"
ban buckshot "big shot could kill shit"
ban small shot "small shot could be made into big shot"
ban people who believe in the Constitution "bad people must supress" </div></div>
This^^^....back door gun control/death knell of the Second Amendment.
The Barnes Ban merely sets precedence for larger steps later.
Couple this with a lead ban to save wally the walrus, and voila....you can't shoot a gun if you've no ammo to shoot in it.
The section of law being relied upon by the ATF will easily ban ALL solid mono-metal bullets, eventually, while we are fast asleep believing they can't possibly pull it off........
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Simple. Ban lead bulliets "lead is bad"
ban solid bullets "solid is bad because it is AP"
ban brass and copper bullets "brass and copper can make solid bullets"
ban all bullets "bullets kill shit"
ban buckshot "big shot could kill shit"
ban small shot "small shot could be made into big shot"
ban people who believe in the Constitution "bad people must supress" </div></div>
This^^^....back door gun control/death knell of the Second Amendment.
The Barnes Ban merely sets precedence for larger steps later.
Couple this with a lead ban to save wally the walrus, and voila....you can't shoot a gun if you've no ammo to shoot in it.
The section of law being relied upon by the ATF will easily ban ALL solid mono-metal bullets, eventually, while we are fast asleep believing they can't possibly pull it off........
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Simple. Ban lead bulliets "lead is bad"
ban solid bullets "solid is bad because it is AP"
ban brass and copper bullets "brass and copper can make solid bullets"
ban all bullets "bullets kill shit"
ban buckshot "big shot could kill shit"
ban small shot "small shot could be made into big shot"
ban people who believe in the Constitution "bad people must supress" </div></div>
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Simple. Ban lead bulliets "lead is bad"
ban solid bullets "solid is bad because it is AP"
ban brass and copper bullets "brass and copper can make solid bullets"
ban all bullets "bullets kill shit"
ban buckshot "big shot could kill shit"
ban small shot "small shot could be made into big shot"
ban people who believe in the Constitution "bad people must supress" </div></div>
+1
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Well this ruins my plans for a 458 Socom bolt gun. I was going to load 500gr banded solids @ 1050fps, now I'll have to pick a different bullet.
Well this ruins my plans for a 458 Socom bolt gun. I was going to load 500gr banded solids @ 1050fps, now I'll have to pick a different bullet.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Was told by a friend who works for the atf that this was comming. I know the 5.7 ammo loaded with solids is on the list from another company as well as a few others.
Was told by a friend who works for the atf that this was comming. I know the 5.7 ammo loaded with solids is on the list from another company as well as a few others.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
The ATF does shit like this ...... just to see if they can get away with it. The more they manage to "get away with" the more they will try in the future. It's all part of Barry's grand plan.
The ATF does shit like this ...... just to see if they can get away with it. The more they manage to "get away with" the more they will try in the future. It's all part of Barry's grand plan.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Didn't the same thing happen last year with a company making bullets for the 6.8 SPC?
Didn't the same thing happen last year with a company making bullets for the 6.8 SPC?
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Hell, one would think the ATF would hand these out to Mexican drug cartels, not ban em!
ATF and EPA, two of the most asinine, colossal fuck ups of gov't agencies there ever was!
Hell, one would think the ATF would hand these out to Mexican drug cartels, not ban em!
ATF and EPA, two of the most asinine, colossal fuck ups of gov't agencies there ever was!
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Now all they have to do is classify jeans as armor and we're all screwed.
Now all they have to do is classify jeans as armor and we're all screwed.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kill_goose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hell, one would think the ATF would hand these out to Mexican drug cartels, not ban em!
ATF and EPA, two of the most asinine, colossal fuck ups of gov't agencies there ever was! </div></div>
Actually, they are doing EXACTLY what their creators were intending them to do....behind the big fat smoke screens of "environmental protection" and "public safety".
Think about it...........
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kill_goose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hell, one would think the ATF would hand these out to Mexican drug cartels, not ban em!
ATF and EPA, two of the most asinine, colossal fuck ups of gov't agencies there ever was! </div></div>
Actually, they are doing EXACTLY what their creators were intending them to do....behind the big fat smoke screens of "environmental protection" and "public safety".
Think about it...........
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kill_goose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hell, one would think the ATF would hand these out to Mexican drug cartels, not ban em!
ATF and EPA, two of the most asinine, colossal fuck ups of gov't agencies there ever was! </div></div>
Actually, they are doing EXACTLY what their creators were intending them to do....behind the big fat smoke screens of "environmental protection" and "public safety".
Think about it........... </div></div>
Oh I know Tripwire.
And anyone with half a brain thats not drinking the "governments gonna save and take care of me" kool-aid can see right through that smoke screen.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kill_goose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hell, one would think the ATF would hand these out to Mexican drug cartels, not ban em!
ATF and EPA, two of the most asinine, colossal fuck ups of gov't agencies there ever was! </div></div>
Actually, they are doing EXACTLY what their creators were intending them to do....behind the big fat smoke screens of "environmental protection" and "public safety".
Think about it........... </div></div>
Oh I know Tripwire.
And anyone with half a brain thats not drinking the "governments gonna save and take care of me" kool-aid can see right through that smoke screen.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Forgot one...
"America is bad, we need to change it into something better..."
Forgot one...
"America is bad, we need to change it into something better..."
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
When they storm the Barnes warehouse all of these dangerous bullets will be disposed of...in Mexico, so they can then say, "SEE! We told you these bullets would be used by criminals to kill people!"
When they storm the Barnes warehouse all of these dangerous bullets will be disposed of...in Mexico, so they can then say, "SEE! We told you these bullets would be used by criminals to kill people!"
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
This is the most important election our lifetime. This is the type of creeping tyranny so often talked about. They ban this to set up to ban that. They are always probing the perimater guys.
I am really concerned about this new consumer protection agency that has no congressional oversight. I try to remain confident we the people will halt this runaway train next November. If not at some point it will get ugly, very ugly.
This is the most important election our lifetime. This is the type of creeping tyranny so often talked about. They ban this to set up to ban that. They are always probing the perimater guys.
I am really concerned about this new consumer protection agency that has no congressional oversight. I try to remain confident we the people will halt this runaway train next November. If not at some point it will get ugly, very ugly.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Well, if I set up my little lathe and turn out solids for my use only, will those be illegal also?
Well, if I set up my little lathe and turn out solids for my use only, will those be illegal also?
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, they are really stretching. Just off the top of my head I thought that for ammo to be considered and actual AP round it has to consist of a metallic core harder than the jacket and be manufactured specifically as an armor piercing round.
</div></div>
Nope, I can buy SS109 by the case so there must be a seriously f'd up definition of AP. This is asinine, very likely agenda driven subterfuge.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertrat1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, they are really stretching. Just off the top of my head I thought that for ammo to be considered and actual AP round it has to consist of a metallic core harder than the jacket and be manufactured specifically as an armor piercing round.
</div></div>
Nope, I can buy SS109 by the case so there must be a seriously f'd up definition of AP. This is asinine, very likely agenda driven subterfuge.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgot one...
"America is bad, we need to change it into something better..." </div></div>
Who said this?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgot one...
"America is bad, we need to change it into something better..." </div></div>
Who said this?
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
No Shit. I can blow right threw 1/2" PLATE @ 100 YRD. with ss109 No Problem & I do with 30-round Mag. & put a Suppressor on also . & it's ...On-Sale @ Cabela's right now ( bulk 2-K round case of LC M855 Penetrator ) .for 400-$ .
that's all perfectly legal all day long . ( * & Rightly So * )
BUT Now you are telling me those idiots are saying I can no longer hunt with .30 TXS 180 grn. anymore for Deer & Elk .??? .
You cant do anything anymore without some Fed. agency hitting you blindside from behind out of know where, crawling up your ass & to stop you from what you have been doing for years . The Fed. Government is more comfortable governing, living blind and crawling up-inside your Ass than they are in the real world . Because you would have to have your head up someones Ass with your eyes covered in Shit . To write legislation like this and To be so stupid as to thinking you are actually a productive member of this society doing it . When in reality you are just a shit-eating, blind Parasite sucking the Fed. public Tit .
.
No Shit. I can blow right threw 1/2" PLATE @ 100 YRD. with ss109 No Problem & I do with 30-round Mag. & put a Suppressor on also . & it's ...On-Sale @ Cabela's right now ( bulk 2-K round case of LC M855 Penetrator ) .for 400-$ .
that's all perfectly legal all day long . ( * & Rightly So * )
BUT Now you are telling me those idiots are saying I can no longer hunt with .30 TXS 180 grn. anymore for Deer & Elk .??? .
You cant do anything anymore without some Fed. agency hitting you blindside from behind out of know where, crawling up your ass & to stop you from what you have been doing for years . The Fed. Government is more comfortable governing, living blind and crawling up-inside your Ass than they are in the real world . Because you would have to have your head up someones Ass with your eyes covered in Shit . To write legislation like this and To be so stupid as to thinking you are actually a productive member of this society doing it . When in reality you are just a shit-eating, blind Parasite sucking the Fed. public Tit .
.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
BUT Now you are telling me those idiots are saying I can no longer hunt with .30 TXS 180 grn. anymore for Deer & Elk .??? </div></div>
Read the memo from Barnes....the TSX, and the TTSX, are NOT part of the ban......YET.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: softcock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
BUT Now you are telling me those idiots are saying I can no longer hunt with .30 TXS 180 grn. anymore for Deer & Elk .??? </div></div>
Read the memo from Barnes....the TSX, and the TTSX, are NOT part of the ban......YET.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
I think that we should stop saying that " I can go and buy so and so ammo/bullets that will penetrate this so and so thick steel plate" This is not to pick at any one person that made a comment, but we are also giving the powers that be more ammo against us law abiding citizens. If anything we need to write NRA or whomever you wish with factual information, That is what needs to be done to stop this. Because you know what is next. Oh yes Remember to VOTE on next election. My .02
I think that we should stop saying that " I can go and buy so and so ammo/bullets that will penetrate this so and so thick steel plate" This is not to pick at any one person that made a comment, but we are also giving the powers that be more ammo against us law abiding citizens. If anything we need to write NRA or whomever you wish with factual information, That is what needs to be done to stop this. Because you know what is next. Oh yes Remember to VOTE on next election. My .02
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
AHhhhh. I read it with my eyes open . So my Barnes TXS solid-banded bullet is NOT banned but the other solid-banded are that are marketed/sold with different brand lettering Is ??? .
Well NOW it makes more sense to me . as... ( My EYES Roll Round & back into my Head ) .
.
AHhhhh. I read it with my eyes open . So my Barnes TXS solid-banded bullet is NOT banned but the other solid-banded are that are marketed/sold with different brand lettering Is ??? .
Well NOW it makes more sense to me . as... ( My EYES Roll Round & back into my Head ) .
.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
TSX is an expanding bullet. Banded solids arrrrreeeeeee................................solid.
TSX is an expanding bullet. Banded solids arrrrreeeeeee................................solid.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
So does this mean that lake city 5.56 XM855 penetrators and other rounds like it will be banned?
So does this mean that lake city 5.56 XM855 penetrators and other rounds like it will be banned?
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Why can't Barnes just put a small HP hole like they do in the TXS marketing-line of hunting banded-solids . A small HP In the Longrange Solid-banded bullets on the List would just circumvent the hole mess the Fed. is trying to shove down there throats ???
Then they would expand slightly on impact in Nose section in a 4-petal segment just a little . & <span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">Then they would NOT be classified as ' Armor Piercing' </span></span>.
.
Why can't Barnes just put a small HP hole like they do in the TXS marketing-line of hunting banded-solids . A small HP In the Longrange Solid-banded bullets on the List would just circumvent the hole mess the Fed. is trying to shove down there throats ???
Then they would expand slightly on impact in Nose section in a 4-petal segment just a little . & <span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">Then they would NOT be classified as ' Armor Piercing' </span></span>.
.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Pure bullshit.
I have shot thousands of these things at steel and the don't act as AP rounds at all...They just shatter like any other bullet.
Pure bullshit.
I have shot thousands of these things at steel and the don't act as AP rounds at all...They just shatter like any other bullet.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
The Barnes TXS's do a number on the Reg. steel plate especially when it's 500 yrd & under . The Barnes hunting solids TXS with a HP nose fuck the plate up way-more than the other target bullets do . but they don't come close to a puncture even out the Mag. rounds . Out the 300sm the TXS's crater much more then the VLD's or the Scenars do . BUT it's not AR surface tempered plate steel, ( it's 5/8" reg. steel plate . )
I have shot the TXS's on some AR surface temper steel & it does 'little' on the pock mark even out the .300sm . & abrasive surface temper steel IS a form of armor plate .
I have Never shot Barnes other line of copper solids that is on the list of Ban projectiles . So I got no visual idea of how they Hit & abuse steel plate .
but the fact remains that Solid-banded bullets Are Not an AP projectile . AP is a specific design with a specific job in mind . It Not a tungsten or steel core used to defeat hard body armor . So the Fed. is totally abusing there office again reaching-out & fucking with private industry again. So shame on them .
.
The Barnes TXS's do a number on the Reg. steel plate especially when it's 500 yrd & under . The Barnes hunting solids TXS with a HP nose fuck the plate up way-more than the other target bullets do . but they don't come close to a puncture even out the Mag. rounds . Out the 300sm the TXS's crater much more then the VLD's or the Scenars do . BUT it's not AR surface tempered plate steel, ( it's 5/8" reg. steel plate . )
I have shot the TXS's on some AR surface temper steel & it does 'little' on the pock mark even out the .300sm . & abrasive surface temper steel IS a form of armor plate .
I have Never shot Barnes other line of copper solids that is on the list of Ban projectiles . So I got no visual idea of how they Hit & abuse steel plate .
but the fact remains that Solid-banded bullets Are Not an AP projectile . AP is a specific design with a specific job in mind . It Not a tungsten or steel core used to defeat hard body armor . So the Fed. is totally abusing there office again reaching-out & fucking with private industry again. So shame on them .
.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
I have some old 338 Speer tungsten cores...Those shoot thru anything I have found!
The Barnes don't penetrate much better on steel and don't touch AR500.
I have some old 338 Speer tungsten cores...Those shoot thru anything I have found!
The Barnes don't penetrate much better on steel and don't touch AR500.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kill_goose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hell, one would think the ATF would hand these out to Mexican drug cartels, not ban em!
ATF and EPA, two of the most asinine, colossal fuck ups of gov't agencies there ever was! </div></div>
+1 as well as most other parts of the government.
As corruption and control gains momentum, America's basic rights will be continuously taken away. Another nail in the coffin of freedom.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kill_goose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hell, one would think the ATF would hand these out to Mexican drug cartels, not ban em!
ATF and EPA, two of the most asinine, colossal fuck ups of gov't agencies there ever was! </div></div>
+1 as well as most other parts of the government.
As corruption and control gains momentum, America's basic rights will be continuously taken away. Another nail in the coffin of freedom.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
The BATF has a history of making rulings and getting half of them not allowed in court.
The question is always, "Do you want to be a test case?"
The BATF has a history of making rulings and getting half of them not allowed in court.
The question is always, "Do you want to be a test case?"
G
Guest
Guest
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
My take,...Nothing but a diversion for getting caught, at making their own work. Also known as FTD in some circles.
My take,...Nothing but a diversion for getting caught, at making their own work. Also known as FTD in some circles.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Since when is rifle AP ammo illegal?!?!? Of are they saying all of these can be fired from a handgun of one type or another? I was under the impression only handgun armor piercing bullets were illegal?
And if rifle AP is illegal, why can you do a quick search for AP 7.62 or .50 BMG and find it for sale all day long???
Since when is rifle AP ammo illegal?!?!? Of are they saying all of these can be fired from a handgun of one type or another? I was under the impression only handgun armor piercing bullets were illegal?
And if rifle AP is illegal, why can you do a quick search for AP 7.62 or .50 BMG and find it for sale all day long???
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
You knuckle heads are missing the point(s) by a HUGE margin.....
--From what I understand, the ATF is basing their conclusions on soft armor.....show me a high power CF bullet, within the context of this concern, that won't defeat soft armor to some degree. The ATF isn't talking about fucking M1/M1A1/M1A2's.
--John Q. Public doesn't know, and probably doesn't give a freaking rat's ass what the difference is in any of the redundant semantics we are discussing here in all of our shooting professionalism; this vs. that, yada yada, etc, etc. All they know is THEIR blessed .Gov has just told them Barnes bullets are bad because they "pierce armor", and now .Gov will protect them from it.
--This whole thing is testing the waters, setting precedent, stirring the pot, etc., for BIGGER FUCKING STEPS later....as in defeating the Second Amendment being THE ONLY end goal.
Wake up! Don't get lost in the noise here.....the stakes are too damn high.
You knuckle heads are missing the point(s) by a HUGE margin.....
--From what I understand, the ATF is basing their conclusions on soft armor.....show me a high power CF bullet, within the context of this concern, that won't defeat soft armor to some degree. The ATF isn't talking about fucking M1/M1A1/M1A2's.
--John Q. Public doesn't know, and probably doesn't give a freaking rat's ass what the difference is in any of the redundant semantics we are discussing here in all of our shooting professionalism; this vs. that, yada yada, etc, etc. All they know is THEIR blessed .Gov has just told them Barnes bullets are bad because they "pierce armor", and now .Gov will protect them from it.
--This whole thing is testing the waters, setting precedent, stirring the pot, etc., for BIGGER FUCKING STEPS later....as in defeating the Second Amendment being THE ONLY end goal.
Wake up! Don't get lost in the noise here.....the stakes are too damn high.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Wow, just wow. +1 to Barnes for not taking it lying down.
Wow, just wow. +1 to Barnes for not taking it lying down.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Because all the thug gangsters load Barnes Solids in their SK's and HiPoints.
Because all the thug gangsters load Barnes Solids in their SK's and HiPoints.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Yep, just like all the AR-15's with the evil laser beams, foregrips, tracer rounds, high capacity magazines, full auto capable, with nightvision/thermal w/DBAL on them that have been used in crimes by Nook Nook and Flip Flop.
It's hard working for the government when you realize it's full of complete failures.
Yep, just like all the AR-15's with the evil laser beams, foregrips, tracer rounds, high capacity magazines, full auto capable, with nightvision/thermal w/DBAL on them that have been used in crimes by Nook Nook and Flip Flop.
It's hard working for the government when you realize it's full of complete failures.
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
As I was studying admin law for bar exam last night my mind kept applying all the different ways to fight agency action to this set of facts. 1 exhaust remedies with agency, 2 petition court for judicial review. I think a valid claim could be had that this action is "arbitrary and capricious, or otherwise not in accord with the facts presented." luckily a good bit of the bench in this nation still uses basic logic. When in doubt, they like to apply the word..."reasonable." I've seen liberal judges go right and conservative judges go left when the facts just smacked them of "COME ON MAN."
As I was studying admin law for bar exam last night my mind kept applying all the different ways to fight agency action to this set of facts. 1 exhaust remedies with agency, 2 petition court for judicial review. I think a valid claim could be had that this action is "arbitrary and capricious, or otherwise not in accord with the facts presented." luckily a good bit of the bench in this nation still uses basic logic. When in doubt, they like to apply the word..."reasonable." I've seen liberal judges go right and conservative judges go left when the facts just smacked them of "COME ON MAN."
Re: ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets
Jimlaw83 - good luck on the Bar. Assuming its your first, you have already figured out its a marathon, not a sprint. And yes, the MBE sucks just as much as you thought. If not your first, then I look forward to welcoming you to the multi-bar club.**
Folks need to go look at the definitions that are being applied for this particular finding (The Barnes notice does not say, but 18 U.S.C. Section 921 is the one that I found that may be applicable). That definition has been around since 1968, but it has not been actively enforced in any meaningful way until recently. I'll not offer an opinion on the chances of overturning this particular BATFE finding other than to say its is not a slam dunk by any stretch. Surplus military ammo adds a whole different twist to the question, but likely does not apply to Barnes projectiles.
Whether folks see it or not, there is a HUGE risk here to the entire lathe-turned solid industry. I give the BATFE their due, they were smart enough to go after one company at a time rather than the entire solid bullet industry at once. So far we have not heard anything from Lehigh, Cutting Edge, GS Custom or anyone else saying that they are going to step in and join the fight. If this goes sideways for a final decision, there will be no solids being sold.
Time to step down from my soapbox....
For what its worth....free legal advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
Jeffvn
** currently licensed to practice law in Nevada. Licensed but inactive in Ohio, Nebraska, and Texas.
Jimlaw83 - good luck on the Bar. Assuming its your first, you have already figured out its a marathon, not a sprint. And yes, the MBE sucks just as much as you thought. If not your first, then I look forward to welcoming you to the multi-bar club.**
Folks need to go look at the definitions that are being applied for this particular finding (The Barnes notice does not say, but 18 U.S.C. Section 921 is the one that I found that may be applicable). That definition has been around since 1968, but it has not been actively enforced in any meaningful way until recently. I'll not offer an opinion on the chances of overturning this particular BATFE finding other than to say its is not a slam dunk by any stretch. Surplus military ammo adds a whole different twist to the question, but likely does not apply to Barnes projectiles.
Whether folks see it or not, there is a HUGE risk here to the entire lathe-turned solid industry. I give the BATFE their due, they were smart enough to go after one company at a time rather than the entire solid bullet industry at once. So far we have not heard anything from Lehigh, Cutting Edge, GS Custom or anyone else saying that they are going to step in and join the fight. If this goes sideways for a final decision, there will be no solids being sold.
Time to step down from my soapbox....
For what its worth....free legal advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
Jeffvn
** currently licensed to practice law in Nevada. Licensed but inactive in Ohio, Nebraska, and Texas.
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