ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

[Maggot]

<span style="color: #CC0000"> Finally</span>


Kenneth Melson is expected to resign as acting director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives in the next day or two with the agency facing scrutiny over the controversial "Fast and Furious" anti-gun trafficking operation that cost the life of a border agent, CNN's Terry Frieden reports. Melson has led the ATF since April 2009, and might be replaced by Andrew Traver, who leads the agency's field office in Chicago. Melson was "closely involved with managing" the operation.

The ATF allowed Mexican drug cartels to buy large numbers of weapons during the operation, which took place in 2009 and 2010, so it could keep tabs on gun smugglers with the hope of building a case against them. But the operation went wrong, as The Wall Street Journal's Evan Perez and Devlin Barrett report, and Republican lawmakers have been harshly critical of it:


Mr. Issa and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R., Iowa) are leading the congressional probe of Fast and Furious, which came to light after an Arizona shootout in December that killed a U.S. border agent. Two assault weapons bought in a gun shop that was part of the operation were found at the scene. The shooter and the gun used to kill the agent haven't been identified. A Mexican national is charged in the shootout.

The Journal notes that the agency "has been without a Senate-confirmed director since 2006, with both the Bush and Obama administrations unable to overcome opposition from gun-rights groups to win approval of nominees." Traver was nominated in November by President Obama to be the permanent ATF director, but the Senate has not confirmed him. The NRA says he's "demonstrated hostility" to gun rights.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Didnt seem to mind giving theem to the Cartels.</span>

 

[kraigWY]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

Sounds like someone is being thrown under the bus to get the story to go away.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like someone is being thrown under the bus to get the story to go away. </div></div>

I agree.

The acting ATF director took credit for this, and nobody else above him was involved?

I would like to point out the <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Law of Shit Rolling Downhill</span></span>. It states that with any beauracratic mess is made in front of the public then normally someone who is one, two, or more rungs above the scapegoat had knowledge, and either vocally or silently approved of such a mess. The scapegoat is determined by the top chain of the beauracracy as being the best person to fire, or as this is called "someone above asking for a resignation", then after such event is accomplished the cockroaches start to move again as the flashing lights from the press cameras fade...

 

[Immorteq]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

Traver is just as bad, if not worse.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

It will suck if he is the fall guy and all the guilty above him get away with this. How can they try to pass more gun control when their gun control is out of control. More like the fox in charge of the hen house.

 

[AMTeam4]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

Holder should go next.

 

[High Binder]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

Resign? They should all be headed for prison... If any of us did the same thing they did you can bet your ass these same fucks would be pushing for us to go to jail...

 

[super-tac]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

No, it's obviously the lax gun laws in the US that cause crime in Mexico...

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

looks like they are replacing him with another anti gun person. mexico needs to solve it's own problems rather than blaming us

 

[SledDog]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: super-tac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, it's obviously the lax gun laws in the US that cause crime in Mexico...</div></div>
Precisely. Just like all the pens and pencils cause people to write bad checks. The Mexican gov't is corrupt from the top down, but its our fault their drug crime is through the roof. Sure.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Resign? They should all be headed for prison... If any of us did the same thing they did you can bet your ass these same fucks would be pushing for us to go to jail...</div></div>
I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV, but wouldn't this guy be somewhat of an "accomplice" in a murder charge? The murder of the Border Guard?

That whole "he wasn't in the bank, he was just sitting behind the wheel of the getaway car when everyone else started shooting" bit.

Still chargeable for murder "by association?" or something, right?

 

[patriotoutlaw]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

There is plenty of room in prison for ALL of the people responsible, starting from the top on down. Anything less is a disgrace to all Americans. On a side note, I was recently investigated by the BATFE for my "numerous" firearms purchases. One of these Mexicans involved in this "sting" had purchased over 600 firearms, yet I get investigated!

 

[High Binder]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patriotoutlaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is plenty of room in prison for ALL of the people responsible, starting from the top on down. Anything less is a disgrace to all Americans. On a side note, I was recently investigated by the BATFE for my "numerous" firearms purchases. One of these Mexicans involved in this "sting" had purchased over 600 firearms, yet I get investigated! </div></div>

Well in fairness you have to keep in mind that you are in fact the enemy not the poor Mexicans who are just trying to create a better life for themselves...

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Resign? They should all be headed for prison... If any of us did the same thing they did you can bet your ass these same fucks would be pushing for us to go to jail...</div></div>
I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV, but wouldn't this guy be somewhat of an "accomplice" in a murder charge? The murder of the Border Guard?

That whole "he wasn't in the bank, he was just sitting behind the wheel of the getaway car when everyone else started shooting" bit.

Still chargeable for murder "by association?" or something, right?</div></div>





....verily so

 

[chris223]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

I agree if we did any of that it would be all over the media and we would be in jail for along time regardless of all else .
Thank God they are not trying to pass the blame to the ffls
that were involved!

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

if i was in charge of the slain agents estate, mr. atf chief would be served post haste.

 

[Grimm]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: varmint6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree if we did any of that it would be all over the media and we would be in jail for along time regardless of all else .
Thank God they are not trying to pass the blame to the ffls
that were involved! </div></div>
Didn't they specifically tell the ffls to make the sales after they raised the red flag or was operation gunwalker or whatever different than fast and furious.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMTeam4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holder should go next.
</div></div>

That lap dog should have gone first. Why aren't the fucking republicans making more of a noise about this? Where's the NRA - why haven't they bought TV, Radio and Print space highlighting this bullshit? Why isn't the media making more of a noise about this? Why the fuck isn't Fox Noise, the one time they can actually do something worthwhile, making more of a noise about this? Where's Beck, O'Reilly and that tard Hannity?

Neither party, nor the corporations and their TV puppets are invested in serving a responsible, informed and free citizenry. They want us dumb, defenseless and working the field to earn money to buy the shit they produce that we don't need.

we need to call, email and voice our opinion to our legislaters regularly about these things. Even if it's pissing in the wind, we still need to do it.

 

[shooter2360]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

I hope that just because he is gone that the others higher up that know what was going on should be forced out, Holder should be next.

 

[Maggot]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMTeam4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holder should go next.
</div></div>

That lap dog should have gone first. Why aren't the fucking republicans making more of a noise about this? Where's the NRA - why haven't they bought TV, Radio and Print space highlighting this bullshit? Why isn't the media making more of a noise about this? Why the fuck isn't Fox Noise, the one time they can actually do something worthwhile, making more of a noise about this? Where's Beck, O'Reilly and that tard Hannity?

Neither party, nor the corporations and their TV puppets are invested in serving a responsible, informed and free citizenry. They want us dumb, defenseless and working the field to earn money to buy the shit they produce that we don't need.

we need to call, email and voice our opinion to our legislaters regularly about these things. Even if it's pissing in the wind, we still need to do it. </div></div>

Its pissing against a hurricane. For all intents and purposes the America I grew up in is gone.Might as well get used to it. They are ALL dirty, and only interested in money and power for themselves. fuckem, im lookin out for me.

 

[goober]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

sadly Goldie Its the state of man kind

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMTeam4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holder should go next.
</div></div>

That lap dog should have gone first. Why aren't the fucking republicans making more of a noise about this? Where's the NRA - why haven't they bought TV, Radio and Print space highlighting this bullshit? Why isn't the media making more of a noise about this? Why the fuck isn't Fox Noise, the one time they can actually do something worthwhile, making more of a noise about this? Where's Beck, O'Reilly and that tard Hannity?

Neither party, nor the corporations and their TV puppets are invested in serving a responsible, informed and free citizenry. They want us dumb, defenseless and working the field to earn money to buy the shit they produce that we don't need.

we need to call, email and voice our opinion to our legislaters regularly about these things. Even if it's pissing in the wind, we still need to do it. </div></div>

Its pissing against a hurricane. For all intents and purposes the America I grew up in is gone.Might as well get used to it. They are ALL dirty, and only interested in money and power for themselves. fuckem, im lookin out for me. </div></div>

I see you've turned from philosopher to apathetic narcissist. I don't know how old you are Goldie, but you've just become the spokesperson for all those who watch Jersey Shore...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

Anyone who thinks this stuff has a real meaning, or that justice will result from this interchange has far more faith in the system than I believe is warranted. It's broke; so let's relinquish the farce of expecting otherwise, or demanding rectitude. It just ain't gonna happen. The problem isn't the players, it's the game itself.

I see this as 'cynical politics as usual', a subject from which I am becoming overly gorged, and will not delve any further into the subject. I'm not a Mod, I have no hammer to drop, I can leave a topic when I choose, and I do so choose.

As Indiana Jones said in <span style="font-style: italic">...Lost Ark</span>, "They're looking in the wrong place...".

Greg

 

[Maggot]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goldie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMTeam4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holder should go next.
</div></div>

That lap dog should have gone first. Why aren't the fucking republicans making more of a noise about this? Where's the NRA - why haven't they bought TV, Radio and Print space highlighting this bullshit? Why isn't the media making more of a noise about this? Why the fuck isn't Fox Noise, the one time they can actually do something worthwhile, making more of a noise about this? Where's Beck, O'Reilly and that tard Hannity?

Neither party, nor the corporations and their TV puppets are invested in serving a responsible, informed and free citizenry. They want us dumb, defenseless and working the field to earn money to buy the shit they produce that we don't need.

we need to call, email and voice our opinion to our legislaters regularly about these things. Even if it's pissing in the wind, we still need to do it. </div></div>

Its pissing against a hurricane. For all intents and purposes the America I grew up in is gone.Might as well get used to it. They are ALL dirty, and only interested in money and power for themselves. fuckem, im lookin out for me. </div></div>

I see you've turned from philosopher to apathetic narcissist. I don't know how old you are Goldie, but you've just become the spokesperson for all those who watch Jersey Shore...</div></div>

Though I dont watch television, and thus have no knowledge of<span style="text-decoration: underline">Jersey Shore </span>, I can see why you would make this assesment. I would use "tactical realist". As a student of history, philosophy, and human nature in general, I hate to beat an old quote to death, but it is still valid. "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolitely." Those who seek power in the political, business, or religous, world run the inherent risk of falling for the trappings of that power. The so called "sheepdogs", many who enter service with a true intent to serve and protect, fall to the power. Its just human nature. Sheepdogs too often become thinly vieled wolves....and the normal guy gets stepped on in their clawing to gain and then maintain power. Doesnt really matter whether mankind fell from Eden, or crawled out of some slime pool....the results are the same. While I do reach out in my personal way to share with those less fortunate, or in distress, I know that except by example I can affect the world very little.

As some one here has quoted "You cant save the world. You may, however, be able to save yourself and your family" Clint Smith?(paraphrased). As Ihave no family, I choose to save myself. If thats narcissism.....play on.

 

[Bolt_Overide]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

heads shoulda rolled higher up the food chain, this guys just a patsy.

 

[pawprint]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

I don't know about all these statements, the Fed LE, was doing what they thought was right, they can't tell us everything, they may have a lot of super secret ops going on right now that would be in trouble if they talked. Asking this guy to quit, would be like getting rid of a Chief of Police in any town when some of his cops are caught stealing, or selling drugs etc. ( although this almost never happens, as 99.99% of all LE are super honest). He was the Acting Head of the BATF. The question is, was there a crime? Did they actually do a crime? Or is it just judgement. The guy may be quitting to save the guys doing the super secret, undercover ops going on, kind of a hero actually. We should support anything our Fed LE does, they are always right. I know I support their actions-hope this changes some minds-to be critical of any LE in the US is just wrong! Stop it now!!

 

[Tazman]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

The ATF is being driven by much higher ups. The ATF chief and his subordinates were just following the political agenda of the current administration. This deal will be swept under the rug and they will go back to targeting law abiding citizens so they can push their "Brady BIll" or whatever other bullshit they come up with. Nothing will change until the current administration is voted out. The guy who is resigning has probably been offered some outlandish retirement package to take a fall and get this out of the media.

The investigation should continue until the sponsors of the program are found and tried as criminals. (Even if includes Hillary or Obama) The ATF would have already had any one of us in prison for much less.

 

[rero360]

Re: ATF Chief to Resign Over Mexican Guns Controversy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paw print</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know about all these statements, the Fed LE, was doing what they thought was right, they can't tell us everything, they may have a lot of super secret ops going on right now that would be in trouble if they talked. Asking this guy to quit, would be like getting rid of a Chief of Police in any town when some of his cops are caught stealing, or selling drugs etc. ( although this almost never happens, as 99.99% of all LE are super honest). He was the Acting Head of the BATF. The question is, was there a crime? Did they actually do a crime? Or is it just judgement. The guy may be quitting to save the guys doing the super secret, undercover ops going on, kind of a hero actually. We should support anything our Fed LE does, they are always right. I know I support their actions-hope this changes some minds-to be critical of any LE in the US is just wrong! Stop it now!! </div></div>

Really now? I agree that most LEOs, at all levels, are honest, hard working, good meaning people. However to suggest that we all give them blind support and not question their actions, especially in events like this where it is blatantly an illegal, foolhardy, and poorly thought out operation, is just insane.

LEOs and all other government employees are public servants, including myself, we answer to the American public, the American people have the right to know what is going on, there is no way that by disclosing all the facts of this operation to the American people will threaten national security or anything like that, unless it is by uncovering other illegal and unconstitutional acts committed by those involved. If that is indeed the case then I say bring it all to light, it will make the country stronger and safer in the long run.