Gunsmithing B&C Stock Help

[BigRed308]

Hey guys. I have a Howa in a BC stock. I am first looking to install a pic rail in place of the swivel studs, then a DBM (probably from CDI). I do know the pic rail will need to be t-nutted as the swivel studs are just screwed into the stock. Should I counter sink these T-nuts if so is there anything special with drilling on a stock I should know about? Next, I am not sure what torque spec my action screws are set at but I have the rifle shooting 3/8 to 1/2 inch groups so I fear removing the action will alter my accuracy. I had a gunsmith piece the rifle together about a year ago as I was not confident in my abilities at the time. Funny, I know. However, is this a valid concern, if so how do I combat this? I am not so concerned with fitting the DBM as it seems to just be minor fitting and worst case a quick trip to CDI.

The other option, is i am thinking about splurging for a McMillian A5 stock. Will I likely see any accuracy increase from this, or just overall comfort. I am please with the BC stock but it is a little light weight.

Thanks for helping out on my back to the basics question.

 

[Shankin]

Not sure if you can change the title of the thread or not.... but if you can, I’d likely change it to “BC stock question”.... might get a few more views that way.

I clicked because I’m a Howa fanboy, but the mods your looking to do to the BC are something that I’ve never done.

I’m sure someone will jump in at some point and get you straightened out.

 

[BigRed308]

Not sure if you can change the title of the thread or not.... but if you can, I’d likely change it to “BC stock question”.... might get a few more views that way.

I clicked because I’m a Howa fanboy, but the mods your looking to do to the BC are something that I’ve never done.

I’m sure someone will jump in at some point and get you straightened out.

I got it changed. Thanks! What stocks are you running on your Howas?

 

[Shankin]

Chassis.

I used to have a 6.5 Creed in a Hogue overmold that was pretty accurate, but it got stolen out of my truck.

Now I have a 6.5 Creed in a KRG Bravo, and I’m building a .223 Rem for the wifemate in a XLR Evolution chassis. I’m trying to get her to take the step from .22lr to centerfire, but she doesn’t like shooting my AR’s. I’m not sure if it’s a noise thing, or a movement of the system thing. I figured I’d build her a heavy for caliber .223 and see if she likes it. If she does, AWESOME! If she doesn’t, I get a trainer!!! Lol

 

[Mordamer]

The swivel studs should be tapped into alluminum in the stock forend if this is a B&C with the full length alluminum insert in the fiberglass. You shouldn't need any T-nuts if that is the case. Just get an atlas rail that is the right length and get the appropriate Allen head bolts at the hardware store.

You should not see any decrease in accuracy from removing and reinstalling the barreled action in the stock. 60 in-lb on the front action screw and 45 in-lb on the rear tang screw is a pretty safe bet for torque.

McMillan A5 is an awesome stock, but likely will not increase the precision of your setup at all if you are already getting 3/8-1/2 MOA groups.

Fitting the DBM correctly is critical for the weapon to feed and function properly, this is likely not completely plug and play. Most Howa's I have worked on needed some tweaking that I would not trust to a novice. I recommend you get professional help with the DBM.

 

[BigRed308]

I called B&C today, and the lady told me that the swivel studs were just screwed into the stock. She told me I would have to t-nut the rail. I have left a link below of the specific stock. How would I tell if the swivel studs have been tapped to the aluminum. Since there is no real worry now with removing the stock, I will most likely send the stock off. I have heard I may need to Dremel some on the action to get the magazine to lock up. Thanks!

Bell and Carlson: Bell and Carlson Weatherby Vanguard/Howa 1500, Target/Competition, Adjustable Cheekpiece

Bell and Carlson is a leader in synthetic stock design, technology and manufacturer of the highest quality fiberglass, aramid and graphite gun stocks available.

www.bellandcarlson.com

 

[Mordamer]

I called B&C today, and the lady told me that the swivel studs were just screwed into the stock. She told me I would have to t-nut the rail. I have left a link below of the specific stock. How would I tell if the swivel studs have been tapped to the aluminum. Since there is no real worry now with removing the stock, I will most likely send the stock off. I have heard I may need to Dremel some on the action to get the magazine to lock up. Thanks!

Bell and Carlson: Bell and Carlson Weatherby Vanguard/Howa 1500, Target/Competition, Adjustable Cheekpiece

Bell and Carlson is a leader in synthetic stock design, technology and manufacturer of the highest quality fiberglass, aramid and graphite gun stocks available.

www.bellandcarlson.com

See the part on their website where it talks about the 6061 alluminum extending down the forearm? The studs are threaded into the alluminum. The way you know this is because the studs would instantly pull out of the stock the first time you used a bipod or sling on one of them if they were just screwed into the soft shell of the stock. If the studs are strong enough to hold a bipod, then the same threads are strong enough to hold a rail on that holds a bipod.

 

[BigRed308]

Thanks, I had the same logic but I am glad you verified it. What bottom metals do you have experience with for the Howa?

 

[Shankin]

I’m not totally sure, but I would think that it would be the stock that would need the mods to get the mags to fit up right, not the action. I know on the Howa SA .223 you need to mod/shorten the bolt stop to be able to feed from AICS mags, but I haven’t heard of any other mods that might need to be done to the Howa action.

 

[BigRed308]

This may be the case. I was briefly summarizing that I have heard. I am pretty sure it just needs a small filling to get the magazines to lock up. Ill be contacting CDI for further clarification.

 

[Mordamer]

Thanks, I had the same logic but I am glad you verified it. What bottom metals do you have experience with for the Howa?

I have experience with Atlas Works bottom metal and PT&G bottom metal for the Howa's. The PT&G bottom metals I fitted were a better fit for the factory stock inlet than the atlas works. There is a small piece of metal on the receiver that sticks out from the rear of the mag well. This piece needs to be milled or ground down for a mag to seat fully into the action. I prefer to fit the bottom metal into the stock, then remove material from this part of the receiver slowly while stopping ever so often to try to insert the mag. If you get just enough material removed that the mag will just barely lock into the DBM then the metal part on the receiver limits the upward movement of the mag farther than it needs to go. Makes for a nice tight fit.

 

[BigRed308]

Do you have any pictures of what exactly needs to be filed? How much material is usually required?

 

[Mordamer]

Do you have any pictures of what exactly needs to be filed? How much material is usually required?

I have an action about 100 ft away from me right now but I simply am too lazy to go take a picture and post it for you. Besides, 30 seconds of googling found me a picture online. Google away.

 

[BigRed308]

Thanks, my rifle and I are separated this evening.

 

[fxdrider]

When I countersunk the t-nuts on my B&C stock, I used a drill press and an appropriately-sized Forstner bit. Had these laying around from my woodworking days. They make a nice, flat-bottomed hole. You can find them on Amazon for not horrible prices. I can't remember off the top of my head what size, but you can just measure the diameter of the t-nut and go with the next larger size.


Irwin Marples Wood Drilling Forstner Bit, 3/4"

 

[gconnoyer]

Another option for the rail is to drill the holes out and epoxy in some thread inserts (same process just like you would with a flush cup)

I've done it on a ton of stocks and never had an issue. No real need to go through the forend and do the Tnuts.
https://www.ezlok.com/e-z-knife-inserts-for-hard-wood - you can generally pick these or something up similar locally. You can get them with a machine screw thread and just buy the proper length/corresponding thread hardware while you're there.

 

[HCICVOGT]

Bigred308 I had a smith install a PT&G bottom metal on my Howa thats bedded in a B&C stock . He removed the "tab" right in front of his nail from far side of black line to tip of nail. If I were to do it all over again I would have him remove metal from the bottom metal in stead. I will admit I didn't read all the replys so this may have already been suggested.

 

[Mordamer]

Bigred308 I had a smith install a PT&G bottom metal on my Howa thats bedded in a B&C stock . He removed the "tab" right in front of his nail from far side of black line to tip of nail. If I were to do it all over again I would have him remove metal from the bottom metal in stead. I will admit I didn't read all the replys so this may have already been suggested.

You can't fix the problem by removing metal from the bottom metal. Your Smith made the right fix. It either has to be removed from the magzines or from the action.