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Lunar95

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 9, 2019
168
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Sizing up some options since I kinda want to sell my K3 4800 and MR 3DAP and get something new. Something to kind of bridge the gap between these bags, my MR is super uncomfortable and the exo is just to big. Id like something comfortable in the 40L range. Some brands I know and are looking at are:

Stone Glacier
EXO
Eberlestock
Vorn
Mystery Ranch
Kifaru
Kuiu

SG Solo is looking to be it but im sure there are other quality brands to check out, anyone got some inputs on brands to check out?
 
I think you may get a better quality response if you explained what you are using the pack for?
 
From a quality / durability standpoint only,
Eberlestock, vorn, and Kuiu arent quite on the same level as the others mentioned.
 
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Around 200 miles on my Kifaru military frame and 22 mag this year and couldn’t be happier with it. Works great for Texas hunting and will use for day pack while elk hunting this December.
 
Kifaru

Love my X-Ray (33L) and Antero (25ish L).
 
I’ve got experience with half of the stuff on your list. I can tell you that Eberlestocks quality isn’t what it used to be (and it was never exceptional) and kuiu also kinda sucks. Kifaru and Mystery Ranch are both excellent quality. I had a couple Kifaru packs and ultimately sold them because I just didn’t like the layout or fit, but the quality is great.

I’m sold on MR however. I’ve got one of their US made packs (overload) and some US made load cells plus a few of their imported bags (mission duffles and urban assault pack). I used the overload at matches and now use it for camping and it still functions as new, absolutely no wear and tear on it and I have not been easy on it. I use the mission duffles for travel and again, they hold up great. The 24L urban assault is my EDC bag and it goes everywhere with me and I’m constantly stuffing different shit in it, some of which is often very heavy. I take it to the beach where it gets wet and covered in sand, I take it on my kayak where it also gets wet, I take it to the grocery store and other stores to stuff crap I buy in it, I take it on airplanes, I take it hiking, and everywhere else. It has been an amazing pack, it’s layout is great, and it holds up to my abuse. Hard to beat MR’s Y zippers too.

I’ve seen some Stone Glacier and EXO packs and I wouldn’t hesitate to buy one if they made what I was looking for, but I’ve got no reason to change up what I’ve got.
 
I currently own a stone glacier 5900 xcurve, mystery ranch bear tooth 80, and seek outside perigrine. All are quality but each fits very different.

My current favorite is the mystery ranch. Fits me well. Doesn’t move around on me but still maintains ability for me to move. Layout is simple and adjustments are simple and make sense. My one gripe with it is the frame squeaks some times with loads.

The Stone Glacier has my favorite belt, stays on my hips and doesn’t move no matter the weight. I don’t like the bag layout and the Xcurve frame pushes on my ribs and is not comfortable after a while. This is my wife’s favorite bag.

The seek outside is my favorite bag layout but I can’t get the belt to stay on my hips over around 30# and the frame/harness has way too many adjustments for my taste.

I have also had a few eberlestock bags and was not a fan. They were heavy, load lifters were useless, uncomfortable with moderate weight. And wouldn’t stay put on my back, swaying and sliding around as I walked.

I was dead set on a kifaru this year now that they released a bag that I thought I would like the layout of and I happen to live somewhat close to them so decided to drive to their store with intention of buying. After trying on a few different frames I didn’t like the way they fit as much as my mystery ranch.

Keep in mind that you will find people loving and hating every single pack. Fit is very personal as is the case of my wife loving the stone glacier and me not so much. You have to try them with weight for your self to see what works best for YOU.
 
I've got 2 eberlestock bags, and that's 2 too many. Learned the hard way that they arent that great. My X1E blew a hole in it after a couple months and a few trips. Had to pay to send it back to them, and the fix for the hole looks like my grandma grabbed whatever thread she had available and went to town in the dark. Their lightweight gossamer frame thing is fairly brittle plastic conditioned to look like carbon fiber.
 
Eberlestock's are usually heavier than others as well. All those pockets and dividers add up.
 
My Eberlestock G2 is great "luggage" but it's not an on your back pack.

I only use it to get from house to auto, auto to firing line.......great for my intentions but for it carrying was not an intention.

I don't have one but Mystery Ranch is where I would go if I wanted a back pack.
 
Sizing up some options since I kinda want to sell my K3 4800 and MR 3DAP and get something new. Something to kind of bridge the gap between these bags, my MR is super uncomfortable and the exo is just to big. Id like something comfortable in the 40L range. Some brands I know and are looking at are:

Stone Glacier
EXO


Kifaru

SG Solo is looking to be it but im sure there are other quality brands to check out, anyone got some inputs on brands to check out?
I edited your list to those I've used and had experience with.
They'll haul more than you can for years.

R
 
Might check these guys out.


Might even try their next smaller bag with a "pocket" or another small pack attached. The Ute is extremely versatile with their compression system, though, if you're going for just one pack.

I've tried a couple of the mfgs you mentioned but I run HPG now and haven't really found a load distribution system that I like better than theirs. Extremely comfortable for the amount of weight carried. Great people, too.
 

@4ester said it well in the first post:

In fairness, most all of the pack brands have a target audience and tradeoffs.

If you want a pack to be rugged your choices narrow just as if you're looking for the lightest possible pack that can still pack out meat on your hips. For me, the bag needs to have a load-shelf or meat hauling system other than just the pack.

In general lighter the pack the more fragile the material, so you need to know that going in. I'll put more weight in my Elk gun with an FFP etc to ensure it is the very best it can be, but I am going to gain that weight back by making other "concessions" in my pack and gear.

For instance, I would say my Kifaru was robust and handled weight well, but a bit heavy at 7lbs, my Stone Glacier super light, but damn the hip system did not carry quarters very comfortable at all (on my hips, compared to Kifaru). My Kuiu, while obviously the least robust bags (because comparatively speaking, most of the weight is in the harness system), but about as light as my Stone Glacier, carried the weight with the big hip belts and CF frame far better, and saved me about 3lbs over my Kifaru, now that rifle feels lighter :).

If you're banging through the brush and dragging across the rocks and want the bag to look new for years, the Kuiu bags are not for you, heck even the SG maybe not. For someone like me who wants to cut ounces on the pack and pack in contents, but still carry out a lot of weight, the Kuiu harness and load-shelf (meat hauler) works well. If you're really rough on gear, you're not going to like ultra-light bags of any kind. That said, I am not real rough on my gear, and don't mind buying new stuff when I am, but we all must find our balance, my 21oz 50L ArcaZip from Zpack is crazy fragile and not suited to carrying meat out, so I chose only to go so light. Just trying to add that each signature pack in these brands will be liked better by the user if they account for the strengths and weaknesses.

Packs you listed that I've used in the same relative class - size and use

For Ultralight packs + *Game Hauling (Pack system in the 4lbs range)​
Stone Glacier - Note they have some way heavier frame systems now since I had mine, but sure to carry better.​
Kuiu - better hip system but lightly more fragile bag than SG I had.​
For light + *Game Hauling (add a pound to the above)​
XO (only tried a hunting buddies, but it is very nice)​
For Robust bags + *Game hauling (add 2-3 pounds)​
Kifaru - hauls game well​
Hated the weight class - most things about the bag system​
Eberlestock​
* These bags all have load-shelves or ways to detach the bag from the harness and frame allowing the user to either hall out quarters between the back and frame or remove the bag entirely to haul meat.​
 
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I will throw Seek Outside into the mix here.

I have EXO, Kifaru, SG and HPG.

IMO, it boils down to fit and what size/accessories/layout you want.
 
I personally HATE Mystery Ranch. I got them issued for years and they were always floppy, heavy, and hot. They think that having the pack hug your back is a good idea and it is if it is still vented well. Theirs are not.

Stone glacier is good stuff.
 
It makes a difference what you’re doing…

i have to assume you are looking for a hunting pack.

At 4000 anything, it sounds like you’re looking for a day pack.

Unless you’re ultra light and never going below 50 degrees…
 
I personally HATE Mystery Ranch. I got them issued for years and they were always floppy, heavy, and hot. They think that having the pack hug your back is a good idea and it is if it is still vented well. Theirs are not.

Stone glacier is good stuff.

I thought the "bolsters" on their frame were meant to leave a channel of air between user and pack......This is interesting to hear because their attraction for me has been I thought they "vented".
 
Yeah. They say they are vented. They aren't. There are "air channels" between the foam pads on the back but the padded areas don't breathe at all. And they put so much foam that 2/3 of your back is cooking. I prefer packs with a metal frame. At least a good solid internal metal frame if not an external one.
 
Yeah. They say they are vented. They aren't. There are "air channels" between the foam pads on the back but the padded areas don't breathe at all. And they put so much foam that 2/3 of your back is cooking. I prefer packs with a metal frame. At least a good solid internal metal frame if not an external one.

Ive been attracted to the old Alice for its metal frame. Its too bad it hasnt been updated for better user access to internals.

Frames give you air and help put the weight on your hips.

Whats old is new.

Those old 1970s bulky frame packs should be coming back in favor.

Only down side is you cant throw it in the too small trunk and by smashing the lid down go on your way.

That frame stuff doesnt give to fit in small spaces.

Edit/add...

Have been looking at these lately......

1634471614126.png


The harness needs updating and the canvas back probably doesnt breathe well but for carrying heavy loads, configuring shelves.....its an idea that needs to be brought back (no pun intended).
 
I have an Arcteryx that I bought before they became involved with designing packs for USMC.

Looks like it was teh precursor to the USMC pack.

Great harness but it starts out heavy when empty.

I think the popular one guys use here is the Khard or something similar. A smaller pack....good for day stuff, carrying essentials without being so big you decide to carry non essentials.

They build their stuff good but with their move to Chinese manufacture Id only buy the LEAF line which is spendy........yet still cheaper than supporting socialism.
 
Update to an earlier post. Three roommates in Wyoming going to UW; seem always to harvest a lot of animals; on pack hunts. My son on the right. Yesterday’s archery hunt.
B5C83F73-A8E0-42DD-85FC-53962633DC26.jpeg

1 -stone Glacier and 2 Kuiu packs.

it would be great if the OP clarified if the pack was for hunting and carrying meat; although he listed a lot of Premium Hunting Pack lines.
 
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Sizing up some options since I kinda want to sell my K3 4800 and MR 3DAP and get something new. Something to kind of bridge the gap between these bags, my MR is super uncomfortable and the exo is just to big. Id like something comfortable in the 40L range. Some brands I know and are looking at are:

Stone Glacier
EXO
Eberlestock
Vorn
Mystery Ranch
Kifaru
Kuiu

SG Solo is looking to be it but im sure there are other quality brands to check out, anyone got some inputs on brands to check out?
I really like Vorn as a company. Great folks! That said, my Vorn has had failures under what I personally feel are mild hunting conditions. I feel they have several design flaws.

They told me that they have basically left the USA market. They have no capability to effect warrenty repairs here in the US, and no stock here for replacements.

Again, I really like Vorn and I hope they will come back to our market but I can’t help but wonder if they found us Americans too hard on our gear, with higher expectations compared to our European counterparts. With some redesign, the Vorn packs could really be all that and more......
 
I personally HATE Mystery Ranch. I got them issued for years and they were always floppy, heavy, and hot. They think that having the pack hug your back is a good idea and it is if it is still vented well. Theirs are not.

Stone glacier is good stuff.
Interesting. My understanding is that they are some sort of decendent of Dana Design. I owned several late 90’s Dana Design packs which I loved. I curse myself for ever selling them.
 
Mystery ranch is overly heavy, and the support structure leaves much to be desired. If their designs were executed better they would be excellent packs.
 
Mystery Ranch is pretty terrible. Kifaru and Stone Glacier are really good. I enjoy the Stone Glacier people a lot.
 
I love my Kifaru Packs. They aren't set up all that well for matches. but they will work and are awesome for hunting. I have an R3 Upranger from Eberlestock just isn't there anymore. I used to love my MR 3DAP up until I tried the Kifaru packs. The kifaru packs are just nicer. They carry the load better and are more comfortable.
 
Not sure what the hate is for mystery ranch, they are literally designed for load carrying.

Most packs use the same type of Cordura nylon. The packs that use less, typically are lighter, and consequently not as durable. Again, the uses are dependent on the activity. Backpacking the PCT is different then backpacking hunting elk in Colorado is different then sitting in a blind in Texas, which is different then hunting in the badlands in late November.

All of which are different then just needing a range bag, and all of which are different then a pack needed to assault tora bora I Afghanistan.

Further more, fit and feel is like a pair of running shoes… sizes and specifics vary per person regardless if activity. I would encourage getting hands on and trying as many as possible.


 
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I can only speak for myself but my experience is that they are heavier than their competitors, but I have seen more failures with them hauling out elk than with any of the other brands. Their meat carrying systems aren't as well thought out, IMO. On the other hand, some of their accessory gear is great. Their rifle bearer is awesome whereas Kifaru's is pretty much garbage. Everything has its strengths.

I also live near them, and Stone Glacier, and find that if I want to pop in and have something fixed or modded, the Stone Glacier guys are 10x more helpful and available.
 
We've been using Kifaru for 20 years now. Kids have tried Stone Glacier and others. But they both came back to Kifaru packs. We've had great luck with the Kifaru Gun Bearers as well. In the end, packs are a lot like boots. What works great for some, may not so much for others. I'd try to stay with any of the made in USA brands if you can. Give the guys at Kifaru a call or email.
 
. Their rifle bearer is awesome whereas Kifaru's is pretty much garbage. Everything has its strengths.
Interesting. I run the Kifaru Gun Bearer -- and found the Kuiu is kinda too light and hangs up often getting the rifle in and out lol..

First I am always chasing weight savings, quiet and fast. I do NOT use the Kifaru as you see on their web page but rather with the rifle much lower ad almost totally vertical. It comes out lightning fast.. I also use the top with my bow works great keeping the bow at the ready but hands almost hand free.

What is it about it that you find not to work?

PS I get the integrated sling but I am not using a sling as I try to eliminate as much as I can to make offset the RRS tripod. Want the weight off my shoulders on the hip belt, for comfort as the shoulders are not the best way to carry weight.
 
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I can't say for sure why I don't like it, I just always find myself fucking around with it and annoyed. Now, I have one of their Nomad packs as well, and if I know I am going to be hiking in a good ways before I get to a hunting area, I love the way it carries my rifle, but I just can't get comfortable with the regular one. I think mainly @30338 is right. A lot of this stuff is so personal. It could just be the way I swing my arms when I hike vs the way somebody else does.
 
Of all the packs mentioned my only experience is with Kifaru. I've been using their stuff for well over a decade.

My packs include a small day pack (called the E&E), a Gen I Molle Express, and a Woodsman. They're all awesome. And the company is awesome. A critter chewed through my old Express and they didn't even charge for the repair. I'm very happy with the company and their products.

The Express has been my go to for everything including summer time backpacking, traveling, farm work, SAR, back country skiing, ..., well, just everything.

The great thing about Kifaru packs, and this may be true of the other brands as well, is their adaptability. If I want to fly to Central America in the winter I can dress warm, head to the airport, have everything I need in my Express including other smaller pouches (including the E&E), then expand the pack out when I'm hiking around where it's hot. I have a little bag to head to the beach or river, a medium-sized bag for the plane, and then like the Transformers put them all together to make a big bag for getting to different destinations with all of my stuff.

Same with cold weather boating. There's always a combination of gadgets to keep dry stuff dry and wet stuff on the outside and well-secured.

Someone above said that Kifaru's not good for matches, but I think they're great for matches because I can put bags all over the outside wherever I want them. I think their newer options are getting away from this versatility, but I bet there's a solution somewhere with enough trial and error.
 
I can't say for sure why I don't like it, I just always find myself fucking around with it and annoyed. Now, I have one of their Nomad packs as well, and if I know I am going to be hiking in a good ways before I get to a hunting area, I love the way it carries my rifle, but I just can't get comfortable with the regular one. I think mainly @30338 is right. A lot of this stuff is so personal. It could just be the way I swing my arms when I hike vs the way somebody else does.
Such a great post. Dialogue explaining the experiences really help contextualize our comments.

I do agree, it takes a bit to figure out how to effectively set up the gun bearer. I think the MR has a lot going for it it your a sling shooter or just can’t give one up. Even tuned up on the Kifaru, does take more effort to put the rifle into the system.
 
The Made in Canada Arc'Teryx BORA packs are bombproof; akin the the Bozeman Dana Designs ArcFlex series.

I personally didn't have any issues with their fit but others, like those here, have.

Used a few of the MR that were still made in USA and they felt the same as the DD from before.

As for an external metal frame, that's easy; Barneys.
 
Not sure what the hate is for mystery ranch, they are literally designed for load carrying.

Most packs use the same type of Cordura nylon. The packs that use less, typically are lighter, and consequently not as durable. Again, the uses are dependent on the activity. Backpacking the PCT is different then backpacking hunting elk in Colorado is different then sitting in a blind in Texas, which is different then hunting in the badlands in late November.

All of which are different then just needing a range bag, and all of which are different then a pack needed to assault tora bora I Afghanistan.

Further more, fit and feel is like a pair of running shoes… sizes and specifics vary per person regardless if activity. I would encourage getting hands on and trying as many as possible.



That is a fairly good video, but a bit older, as all this stuff evolves. For instance, the newer Kuiu harness system is more adjustable in the lumbar area.

Three things I wish they did better:
1. They compared very large bags to some much smaller bags. It would have been much better if the packs were the same moderate size.​
2 They did not show what packs had load-shelves. Here is an example ( a lot of the packs' from SG, Kifaru, Kuiu work similar. to the images below)​
49209707913_7f32b2f0b7_o.jpg
Here I am back out of the snow and at the truck with 2 Shoulders in the load-shelf between the flat carbon frame and the bag (pack). Basically, you detach the top part of the bag from the carbon stays and extend the compression straps, It leaves a cradle and very large space to securely carry a heavy load. BTW the poles are Z-pole carbons (foldable) at only 10oz for the set- Damn good investment when loaded so heavy.​
3. While they highlighted the heavy aluminum frame of the Eberlestock and talked about how you can detach the bag and use it as a meat only hauler, I felt it was almost misleading in that you can do the same with the SG, Kifaru, and Kuiu (with the solid carbon backplate and extra load flap) as well as some others. Below is an example of my son with the pack off on a second trip in. The blue thing is a water bladder strapped to the outside​
49210412582_d87ce4d680_o.jpg
In the OP and the Video, the keyword is Hunting, but of course, not all hunting is the same. So if you're hunting ducks, or truck hunting Antilope, etc, the load-shelves may not even matter to you.​
 
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Kifaru is a great brand but just keep in mind that the weight of the packs can get pretty heavy once you add all of the doodads like pouches/gun bearers/belt pockets/etc. The Stryker XL + duplex lite frame 26" w/long shoulder straps with a sherman pocket and two small belt pouches is ~8lbs empty. And that's for a "minimalist" pack that can expand to your needs.

HPG has a really comfortable harness system for heavy weights, but their packs are mostly top loading or bucket loading style and getting to items can be difficult without side or panel zipper access.
 
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What's awesome is that nearly all of these companies are run by guys who are hunters, and who are basically just trying to figure out how to solve whatever problem they are having with their gear in the field. That is really the best of human development -- problem solving. It is also great that nearly every one of these companies will spend time on the phone with you, or in person, trying to get your problems solved as well. HPG is really good about this. Hell, Hyperlite Mountain Gear is awesome about it if you are looking for super lightweight backpacking gear. It's a good industry with good people, and we are all benefiting from it.
 
Great thread here. And good video, as it included people of different body sizes/builds. Let’s keep it going.

I am 5’8”, 180# (fairly small stature) and use packs for different things (Mystery Ranch, Eberlestock, Arc'teryx, and even a 35 year old LL Bean North Col). I like them all, and the common thing among these very different packs is fit. A pack must fit you well or it simply won’t be used. Go somewhere and try on any pack before you buy it. Spend the time to take it part and make it fit YOU. Add medium and max weight for your intended use and walk around. The importance of fit increases with weight and distance carried.

The newest pack is the Eberlestock Little Brother, purchased to haul equipment for work. We pack across desert and mountain areas carrying bulky equipment and water over 10-12 miles each day (not too heavy; 20-35 lbs). The crew using these packs ranges from a small 5’2” women to a very stocky 5’11” guy, and they can be adjusted to fit each really well. So not complaints on this particular Everlestock, but YMMV.
 
Great thread here. And good video, as it included people of different body sizes/builds. Let’s keep it going.

I am 5’8”, 180# (fairly small stature) and use packs for different things (Mystery Ranch, Eberlestock, Arc'teryx, and even a 35 year old LL Bean North Col). I like them all, and the common thing among these very different packs is fit. A pack must fit you well or it simply won’t be used. Go somewhere and try on any pack before you buy it. Spend the time to take it part and make it fit YOU. Add medium and max weight for your intended use and walk around. The importance of fit increases with weight and distance carried.

The newest pack is the Eberlestock Little Brother, purchased to haul equipment for work. We pack across desert and mountain areas carrying bulky equipment and water over 10-12 miles each day (not too heavy; 20-35 lbs). The crew using these packs ranges from a small 5’2” women to a very stocky 5’11” guy, and they can be adjusted to fit each really well. So not complaints on this particular Everlestock, but YMMV.
Do you guys like a pack without a hip system to put the majority of the load on the hips rather than the shoulders? ie Eberlestock Little Brother. For a very small pack without any true suspension system, 4lbs seems rather heavy for what you get. but I guess if you need the bag not to wear out as a daily driver I get it.

Screenshot 10-19-2021 13.01.57.png
 
I like being able to switch from back to hip, as one part of my body gets creaky I can abuse the other part. Back when I was younger it was easier to go without a hip belt, but I prefer not to do it now, unless the load is really light.
 
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Do you guys like a pack without a hip system to put the majority of the load on the hips rather than the shoulders? ie Eberlestock Little Brother. For a very small pack without any true suspension system, 4lbs seems rather heavy for what you get. but I guess if you need the bag not to wear out as a daily driver I get it.

View attachment 7724090
We ordered the hip belts for all the packs, and find the hip belts essential for comfort. It fits me well and is snug on my hips. I can rock hop and climb around without that feeling of weight shifting around on my back. And yes, long term durability has been really good so far, and we have been using them for 3 years.
 

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And I agree with @Choid that the ability to easily balance the load distribution between hips and shoulders is really important. The Eberlestock Little Brother is a long and narrow small-medium pack, and it is easy to adjust. Nothing fancy IMHO, just well built and very comfortable.
 
This is slightly off topic, but this is a great product for anybody looking to stay in packing shape in the offseason. Works on the trails or on a treadmill when it is awful and snowy outside.

 
Just an update gents, I went with a Kifaru 357 mag with a Sherman pocket. Ill get it in about 2 weeks, once I use it a bit Ill check back in and compare it to what I got.

I use it for hunting, search and rescue, and field matches. I wanted a "one size fits all" despite such a thing not existing. I went with kifaru for it being robust to deal with the brush down here, yet offer good rifle carrying options for matches. I don't care about the extra pound or 2 since my loads are 35-50 anyways, while the extra 2 pounds would be nice to save, I favor the durability that comes with the 2 pounds. Maybe if it weight 5lbs more than the other options id think differently, but 2lbs aint much.

Appreciate the advice, hope someone else finds it useful too!