These are both top notch actions. I'm just curious to read what this forum thinks of these two actions when compared with one another. There is little info on the Badger m2013 so I would like to know if anyone has handled both of them and if they can give their review/opinion.
Badger M2013 or Defiance Deviant. Which would you pick?
- Thread starter dlouie87
- Start date
ok defiance is smooth as butter, integrated lug/20moa base, 90 degree bolt lift, takes rem 700 parts and fluting on the bolt. Badger 60 degree bolt lift, bullet proof, integral lugs, takes rem 700 parts, supposed to be a better version of the m2008. I have never handled either its just from what I heard. If you don't like 60 degree bolt lift then get the defiance, its going to be a while before you get a lot of reviews of the 2013. Personally I think I might get the 2013.
I've handled both a fair bit. Choosing between them really comes down to:
1. Weight - The BO action is considerably heavier than the Defiance. Not sure exactly now much, but you notice it in your hand. The BO is not top choice for a lightweight build. However, the heavier action weight of the BO allows for a heavier contour barrel while maintaining the all-important BALANCE.
2. Bolt lift and throw (60º vs 90º) - While the M2013 bolt lift is improved over the M2008, it is still much heavier than the Defiance. You've really got to experience it "in action" to determine if it's a problem though. I don't mind the BO boltlift at all, my partner can't stand it. He does acknowledge though, the increased bolthandle/scope clearance provided by the BO is nice, and he loves how it almost seems to return to battery all by itself. Still, he just doesn't dig the increased force required to cock the action. It is what it is and this is a key point on your decision.
3. Stock options - Not a big issue, as all the big stock/chassis makers will inlet for the BO, or modify the chassis to fit the BO. However, you can just about forget finding a second hand stock for the BO, while you see them all day everyday here on the hide for the 700 clones like the Defiance.
4. Barrel interchangeability - probably hardly worth mentioning, but I will anyway. Barrels interchange from one BO action to the next, which is great for a switch barrel setup. However, I suspect the Deviant would allow for this too, even though they don't really make the claim.
1. Weight - The BO action is considerably heavier than the Defiance. Not sure exactly now much, but you notice it in your hand. The BO is not top choice for a lightweight build. However, the heavier action weight of the BO allows for a heavier contour barrel while maintaining the all-important BALANCE.
2. Bolt lift and throw (60º vs 90º) - While the M2013 bolt lift is improved over the M2008, it is still much heavier than the Defiance. You've really got to experience it "in action" to determine if it's a problem though. I don't mind the BO boltlift at all, my partner can't stand it. He does acknowledge though, the increased bolthandle/scope clearance provided by the BO is nice, and he loves how it almost seems to return to battery all by itself. Still, he just doesn't dig the increased force required to cock the action. It is what it is and this is a key point on your decision.
3. Stock options - Not a big issue, as all the big stock/chassis makers will inlet for the BO, or modify the chassis to fit the BO. However, you can just about forget finding a second hand stock for the BO, while you see them all day everyday here on the hide for the 700 clones like the Defiance.
4. Barrel interchangeability - probably hardly worth mentioning, but I will anyway. Barrels interchange from one BO action to the next, which is great for a switch barrel setup. However, I suspect the Deviant would allow for this too, even though they don't really make the claim.
Hey Turbo, how's that M2013 after getting it melonited? I have not handled the Defiant but did take my 2013 out today. The bolt lift weight is noticeable when you are dry firing it but it seems to be getting lighter, I didn't notice it feeling heavy at the range. My AX chassis with a Remington varmint profile barrel and a Thunder Beast 30P can comes in at 18#'s. If you are building a hunting rifle my combo would be less than ideal, but for a target rifle its fine. Now that Badger has the actions rolling out I don't think you can wrong, if you want an Accuracy International chassis you will spend a couple hundred bucks getting it inletted where I would think the Defiant would drop in.
Actually, I haven't handled my action since it came back from melonite.
However, I handled Adam B's melonited 2013 action at the PTS match. It didn't feel any different than mine did pre-melonite.
I will point out I cycled mine at least 1000 times before dropping it off with my smith, and in my opinion, it smoothed out and felt better than it did out of the box.
This conversation is mostly academic though; when the pressure is on and the clock is ticking, I don't notice the nuances of the feel of the bolt.
However, I handled Adam B's melonited 2013 action at the PTS match. It didn't feel any different than mine did pre-melonite.
I will point out I cycled mine at least 1000 times before dropping it off with my smith, and in my opinion, it smoothed out and felt better than it did out of the box.
This conversation is mostly academic though; when the pressure is on and the clock is ticking, I don't notice the nuances of the feel of the bolt.
Accuracy wise they are equally inherently accurate. What more than anything, will determine the overall accuracy (excluding the shooting) is the quality of the barrel and the work done to chamber and assemble the rifle. When talking custom actions, they are nearly all the same in regards to accuracy potential
That's very subjective. It's the same as its always been, it depends on who does the work on the entire rifle itself. The action is just one part. I think the differences don't lie in accuracy but in options the shooters looking for. Both actions with a properly chambered barrel and bedded stock will produce at least 1/2 MOA or less. As a matter of fact, I know it will.
Read Turbo's post above about the similarities/differences of both actions.
I sent my AICS to BO and they inletted it for $125 shipped and had it back to me in about a week.
Defiance will make the Deviant any way you want. I got a left bolt/Right port. When I asked they said "no problem, options are our specialty". You also get the options for free unlike most custom/after market items for long range work. Mine included Heavy tang, enlarged port, tactical bolt handle, Remington 700 bolt geometry, left bolt/right port, heavy bolt fluting. I believe they also offer custom serial #'s.
Hey LongArm, can you explain the benefits of the right port for left bolts? Is it so you can observe the port with your right eye? Thanks
For about thirty years I only shot right handed rifles with my left eye/left handed. Being left handed I wanted to try shooting left handed rifles. as any lefty know shooting slung up is a pain in the ass, but do-able. I was building this rifle as a competition rifle. I did not want to have to relearn anything so I figured I would split the difference and have it right port, left bolt. This was because I could see into the port with my right eye and since I had been doing it for ever it was one less thing I wanted to relearn.
I have also heard that some F class shooters shoot left handed rifles even though they are right handed????
I have also heard that some F class shooters shoot left handed rifles even though they are right handed????
Have you considered a Stiller? A complaint I've heard from a few people is that they are not as smooth as a Defiance out of the box. This may be true as I was not completely happy with the smoothness of my first one so I had my 19 year old sit in front the TV and cycle the bolt. I figure he did something on the order of 600 cycles. It is incredibly smooth now. I'm talking like extra virgin olive oil across a graphite surface kind of smooth. I am happy enough with my Stillers that I have 3.
Bought a defiance deviant last year and would do it again in a heartbeat. Four of my buddies have gotten a deviant as well and all run flawlessly. Defiance also builds GAP's actions for them so you know they are good.
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I really like mine, but truth be told if I could have found a left handed AIAW or badger action I'd bought it.
Never handled a Badger but my Deviant is everything I wanted and works flawlessly. At this level of actions I dont think you could go wrong with either. I'd probably go with whichever I could get my hands on quicker.
I've been offered a gun built on a m2013 and have never personally used them. I have a bunch of stillers and have ran defiance, surgeon 591s and bat actions in the past. Bat is by far the smoothest but as mentioned the stillers after a weekend of cycling the bolt with a little lapping compound and they are better smooth.
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I got the chance to put a few down range and cycle the bo action and it definitely needs to be cycled a few thousand times to break it in but I'm used to a well broken in stiller and some very broken in 700s so I'm probably being a little critical. Overall I like it so far and it does fell very much like the AI stuff I've owned in the past.
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A few thousand times? I can honestly say I barely notice going between my M2013 and my various 700/Tikka/Howa factory rifles, and buddies Stiller and Pierce actions. Maybe I'm just not that sensitive.
Surgeon still gets my vote for the best traditional action. Something about the bolt lift and ergo's of that thing. Just so very easy to cycle without disrupting your position.
Defiance every day. Actions are awesome Service is great and they are huge sponsors at the matches. Plus theyre just darn good people to work with.
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