Badger Ordnance C1 Concerns

[parabomber]

Hey all, I'm just putting together a rifle with a Badger Ordnance C1 and a Viper PST gen II 1-6x. I was reading up on scope leveling, and a lot of people are discussing resting the scope in the rings, moving it forward and back, twisting, etc to find the right eye relief spot and to level it.

The problem is, there is absolutely no way to move the scope once it's placed into the bottom half of the mount. If I rest it gently into the bottom half, there's a several-mm gap between the bottom of the scope base and the scope tube; if I push the scope down so its flush into the rings, its very tight; there would be no way to slide or twist the scope without serious friction. I can hold it just by the scope and the bottom rings are practically glued into the tube.

I broke out the calibers and measured the tube first: I measured at and and 90 degrees at several parts of the tube, and saw between 30mm and 30.10mm.

Measuring the rings is a bit tougher; the BO C1 has hash marks meant to line up with leveling marks on a scope, so I measured at those first; I got between 29.94 and 30. Measuring in from the top of the opening of the ring, I got about 30mm exactly.

Am I overthinking this? Should the scope be able to "slide" forward and back or twist left and right without excessive friction while resting at the bottom of the rings? Should the bottom rings be able to "clamp" to the scope when the scope is pressed flush to the bottom of the rings?

Much appreciated; I haven't spent this much on a build before so I may just be being nitpicky.

 

[Desert_Racer]

Just set the scope in the mount. You don't need to mash it in there. The top rings will do that for you. Don't overthink it.

I literally just place the scope in the mount (not push it in) with the turret housing roughly centered between the rings, put the top caps on and run the screws in a touch lighter than hand tight so the scope will still move with little to no friction/effort.

Place the mount and scope where you think you want it to be, then get behind the rifle and check eye relief. May not be the right way, but I check eye relief at the highest magnification setting, as that's where the eye relief will be the most picky. If its not where I want it, I will usually move the scope forward or aft one picatinny position if its a ways off. If its only slightly off, I will just move the scope forward/aft in the rings.

Once I find my position, I level the scope, then torque down the rings in a criss-cross pattern, about an 1/8 turn at a time until I hit my torque, ensuring there is an even gap on both sides of the ring caps.

 

[Wyfox]

That doesn't sound right, I would give Badger a call tomorrow.

 

[rijndael]

Should the scope be able to "slide" forward and back or twist left and right without excessive friction while resting at the bottom of the rings?

Yes.

 

[parabomber]

Just set the scope in the mount. You don't need to mash it in there. The top rings will do that for you. Don't overthink it.

I literally just place the scope in the mount (not push it in) with the turret housing roughly centered between the rings, put the top caps on and run the screws in a touch lighter than hand tight so the scope will still move with little to no friction/effort.

Place the mount and scope where you think you want it to be, then get behind the rifle and check eye relief. May not be the right way, but I check eye relief at the highest magnification setting, as that's where the eye relief will be the most picky. If its not where I want it, I will usually move the scope forward or aft one picatinny position if its a ways off. If its only slightly off, I will just move the scope forward/aft in the rings.

Once I find my position, I level the scope, then torque down the rings in a criss-cross pattern, about an 1/8 turn at a time until I hit my torque, ensuring there is an even gap on both sides of the ring caps.

without placing the top caps whatsoever, if I place the scope into the bottom half, the sides of the rings are holding the scope a few mm above the bottom of the rings. If I push the scope in to clear them and seat the scope in the bottom of the rings, taking up the remaining gap and making the scope flush in the rings, the mount is tightly clamped to the scope tube, and the scope tube cannot move in any direction.

 

[UpSideDown]

It’s not possible to accurately measure that diameter with calipers. I would measure the scope though, preferably with a micrometer. There’s definitely either a diameter or angle or burr issue here somewhere if the scope won’t drop into the mount. Is there any burr or damage in the scope mount that has displaced material preventing the scope from dropping in?

 

[parabomber]

It’s not possible to accurately measure that diameter with calipers. I would measure the scope though, preferably with a micrometer. There’s definitely either a diameter or angle or burr issue here somewhere if the scope won’t drop into the mount. Is there any burr or damage in the scope mount that has displaced material preventing the scope from dropping in?

I didn't see any burrs or material hindering them. Sent some pics and measurements to Badger Ordnance and sent it off to them, I'm guessing the rings were slightly undersized or slightly out of round; we'll see what they find.

I guess the alternative is that my scope is oversized; I wasn't able to measure it too well but it came in around 30.04~ with the calipers on avg depending on where I measured but from what I gather calipers aren't great at measuring round things.

 

[UpSideDown]

I didn't see any burrs or material hindering them. Sent some pics and measurements to Badger Ordnance and sent it off to them, I'm guessing the rings were slightly undersized or slightly out of round; we'll see what they find.

I guess the alternative is that my scope is oversized; I wasn't able to measure it too well but it came in around 30.04~ with the calipers on avg depending on where I measured but from what I gather calipers aren't great at measuring round things.

Right on, Badger should be able to tell you.

You can measure the outside of round things easily with calipers but the inside measurement is much more difficult; and on hemispherical things where you’ve only got 1/2 of the circle to measure like the rings, you can’t really put the calipers in a good place to grab the exact centerline without having the width of the caliper tangs interfering with your measurement. Badger will let you know, them and vortex have good support so you should be covered, whichever one has the issue.

 

[patriot_man]

Could you share some photos?

 

[parabomber]

Could you share some photos?

first two showing the mount "gripping" the tube without the top rings in either orientation, 3rd pic shows if I rest the scope in the lower mount without press-fitting it.

 

[parabomber]

Just an update; Badger Ordnance sent back a photo of a 30mm gauge sitting in the rings. Now, of course my scope will sit in the rings, it just can't twist or turn for leveling and is really "locked" in even without the top rings installed.

I'm double checking with them but they feel confident the mount is in spec.

Is it worth hitting up Vortex or should I just squish that bad boy in there and send it?

 

[rijndael]

should I just squish that bad boy in there and send it?

I would not do that.

 

[UpSideDown]

I’d call vortex and tell them what the issue is and offer to send them the scope and the mount and see what they think.

 

[parabomber]

I’d call vortex and tell them what the issue is and offer to send them the scope and the mount and see what they think.

I guess I need to spend some time on the backup irons anyways...

 

[parabomber]

Vortex of course initially suspects the mount is out of spec. It sounds like I'm going to send both the mount and scope to Vortex and see what they find out. Hopefully I can get this sorted and start shooting the rifle sometime soon. Definitely didn't expect to end up sitting between two manufacturers playing the "which part is out of spec" game.

 

[Diesel79]

I have a badger C1 mount and a razor 1-6. Definitely does not fit/look like yours. I’m curious what Vortex will say.

 

[UpSideDown]

Here’s an easy test if your mount is high and turrets low enough to pull this off. Stick your scope in the mount and rotate the scope 360°. If the scope is the issue, as you rotate the scope there will be two points 180° apart from each other in which the scope will drop perfectly down into the mount if it is a concentricity issue. If it is a diameter issue, that’s not something you’ll be able to easily measure, but badger said that they tested them out with a test cylinder and it checked out so I think that this rotating test will give you your answer.

 

[parabomber]

Here’s an easy test if your mount is high and turrets low enough to pull this off. Stick your scope in the mount and rotate the scope 360°. If the scope is the issue, as you rotate the scope there will be two points 180° apart from each other in which the scope will drop perfectly down into the mount if it is a concentricity issue. If it is a diameter issue, that’s not something you’ll be able to easily measure, but badger said that they tested them out with a test cylinder and it checked out so I think that this rotating test will give you your answer.

I just checked, and it's definitely no tighter from any one angle than any other. However, all angles are equally slightly too tight. I also noticed one of the rings lets the scope in slightly more than the other.

I have a shipping label from Vortex, just need to clarify with them that they are cool with me sending both scope and mount. This will probably push me outside of my return window for Brownell's, I'm tempted to just return one or both or order a second mount/scope to confirm which was the issue on my own.

 

[UpSideDown]

I just checked, and it's definitely no tighter from any one angle than any other. However, all angles are equally slightly too tight. I also noticed one of the rings lets the scope in slightly more than the other.

I have a shipping label from Vortex, just need to clarify with them that they are cool with me sending both scope and mount. This will probably push me outside of my return window for Brownell's, I'm tempted to just return one or both or order a second mount/scope to confirm which was the issue on my own.

Now that you already own the parts and both companies have good warranties I'd just go through the warranty process with Vortex and send the mount with it. Otherwise somebody else is going to get a bad part just like you did.

 

[parabomber]

Vortex had a chance to check out both the optic and mount, and seems to be saying what Badger did; that there's nothing wrong and the tightness of the mount on the optic shouldn't be an issue (other than making leveling a bit harder). They have it on the way back to me now.