Band of brothers - The British tank scene.

[JohnnyForeigner]

I remember when I first saw the scene ( British tank commander being told by GI about a Tiger laying in ambush ) and the British guy refused to shoot unless the tank showed itself, to minimise damage to houses ............ and I laughed.

"It is something that American writers just simply cannot resist. They have to be gung-ho, macho, square-jawed, with great teeth, and the British have to talk like this and say, ‘Well, I’m sorry old fruit, I can’t do that because I’m about to have my tea.’ And it’s just so annoying because British people weren’t like that. They were just like Americans"

https://screenrant.com/band-of-brothers-show-mistake-world-war-2-expert-response/

 

[beetroot]

I'll be the first to say it.

Take your tea, bad teeth, warm beer and your shit food and crawl back into your council flat.

America kicked your limey ass in both world wars, so beat it.

 

[RTH1800]

Ouch!

 

[EddieNFL]

What happened to the tank in question? No, didn't watch the video, but I have read several accounts of guys who were actually there.

 

[JohnnyForeigner]

Well that escalated quickly

Though I am more Irish that British

Coffee over tea.
Bushmills over warm beer.
Worked hard and never need welfare (council flat )

 

[JohnnyForeigner]

What happened to the tank in question? No, didn't watch the video, but I have read several accounts of guys who were actually there.

Both Cromwell and Sherman were totally outgunned and taken out as I recall.

 

[fpgt72]

Both Cromwell and Sherman were totally outgunned and taken out as I recall.

There is a huge amount of "stuff to unpack" with the allied tank......stuff......in WWII. British and American thinking the use and development of the weapons, huge things. Cromwell, became Comet, or the other way around, too much dust in my head to remember, I think Comet came after.
Both......crap just going to look...... I was wrong, one had the QF and the other had the HV main gun. And a great deal goes into all that mess as well.

A great deal of the stuff is online now, much of the tests from Aberdeen is out there, I would have to look at home for the links. The reports are about as dry as you would expect but there is some really good stuff in there.

76mm on the sherman was a good gun, the old 75 it started with was just not up to the task it was asked to do. Same with the 76 british Quick Firing gun, they moved to the 77 HV that sent the shells a good bit faster.

The 6lb gun that everyone is just ga ga over was a HUGE weapon, good but really fricken big and heavy. This is why all the work had to be done to hang the thing on a sherman, and find skinny guys to run the thing. It took up a great deal of room. A couple videos on them.

 

[bobkhan]

TIL: a new way to insult the British = council flat

 

[EddieNFL]

Well that escalated quickly

Though I am more Irish that British

Coffee over tea.
Bushmills over warm beer.
Worked hard and never need welfare (council flat )

I have some Irish in me from mom's side. That's why I tell everyone I'm Hessian.

 

[darkfader]

Funny, I’m watching the series again and just saw this scene last night. The British tank commander stated he had rules of engagement to not cause unnecessary destruction and would not level the building the German tank was hiding behind.

The British tank pushes forward, the Tiger rolls forward a bit and blasts the British tank.

I’m no tank commander, but probably would’ve leveled the building and had my column blast the Tiger.

 

[GreenMushroom]

There is a huge amount of "stuff to unpack" with the allied tank......stuff......in WWII. British and American thinking the use and development of the weapons, huge things. Cromwell, became Comet, or the other way around, too much dust in my head to remember, I think Comet came after.
Both......crap just going to look...... I was wrong, one had the QF and the other had the HV main gun. And a great deal goes into all that mess as well.

A great deal of the stuff is online now, much of the tests from Aberdeen is out there, I would have to look at home for the links. The reports are about as dry as you would expect but there is some really good stuff in there.

76mm on the sherman was a good gun, the old 75 it started with was just not up to the task it was asked to do. Same with the 76 british Quick Firing gun, they moved to the 77 HV that sent the shells a good bit faster.

The 6lb gun that everyone is just ga ga over was a HUGE weapon, good but really fricken big and heavy. This is why all the work had to be done to hang the thing on a sherman, and find skinny guys to run the thing. It took up a great deal of room. A couple videos on them.

The 17lber was the big one they had to cram in sideways. The 77mm was a modified version of the 17lber for the comet that fit marginally better and had a shorter fatter case.

The 75 was a good gun just suffered against the heavier German armor. Had a bigger HE payload vs the 76 which was better for the vast majority of targets faced. This probably wasn't much conciliation if one came face to face with a panther/tiger.

 

[JohnnyForeigner]

Funny, I’m watching the series again and just saw this scene last night. The British tank commander stated he had rules of engagement to not cause unnecessary destruction and would not level the building the German tank was hiding behind.

The British tank pushes forward, the Tiger rolls forward a bit and blasts the British tank.

I’m no tank commander, but probably would’ve leveled the building and had my column blast the Tiger.

Yes - pretty much this.

The scene was a cliche to satisfy the stereotype.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Band of Brothers was a great series. It has special meaning as well. Our son, purchased the book for me as he knew that out in the country, we would never be able to get HBO. (well actually later we were able to but didn’t want it).

So, after reading this great present, I was able to purchase the DVD set and really enjoyed it.

Point. It has come to my attention that the screen writers took several liberties over actual events. As always what makes great tv does not always make true scrips.

Any way, still enjoy the series and am thoroughly Shocked, that it was 23 years ago, when our son was just a freshman in college and gave me the book. (Still have the book and Its Not For Sale!). Time does fly when you are having fun, and I am going to have fun.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Iirc the German vehicle in the scene was a jagdpanther. Casemate long barrel 88 on a panther chassis. Very thick and well sloped front armor. Unlikely anything in the allied column would have been able to do much with it unless they could get a flank shot. Firefly sabot round might get through.

 

[EddieNFL]

Band of Brothers was a great series. It has special meaning as well. Our son, purchased the book for me as he knew that out in the country, we would never be able to get HBO. (well actually later we were able to but didn’t want it).

So, after reading this great present, I was able to purchase the DVD set and really enjoyed it.

Point. It has come to my attention that the screen writers took several liberties over actual events. As always what makes great tv does not always make true scrips.

Any way, still enjoy the series and am thoroughly Shocked, that it was 23 years ago, when our son was just a freshman in college and gave me the book. (Still have the book and Its Not For Sale!). Time does fly when you are having fun, and I am going to have fun.

You may enjoy Winters, "Beyond Band of Brothers." Also, my favorite D Day book is "D Day" (excellent title) by Ambrose.

 

[JohnnyForeigner]

I did a 10 day trip to Normandy a few years ago. There is a museum with a whole room of exhibits dedicated to Easy Coy - well worth a visit.
I also visited Carentan - nothing there now to link to 1944 but I wanted to see it anyway.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

You may enjoy Winters, "Beyond Band of Brothers." Also, my favorite D Day book is "D Day" (excellent title) by Ambrose.

Got it!

 

[Mister Ridge]

Iirc the German vehicle in the scene was a jagdpanther. Casemate long barrel 88 on a panther chassis. Very thick and well sloped front armor. Unlikely anything in the allied column would have been able to do much with it unless they could get a flank shot. Firefly sabot round might get through.

Both are shown. The vehicle that fires first is a Tiger. The Jagdpanther then rolled out and fired, which I believe was the shot that took out the lead allied vehicle.

 

[Kamerad]

Yes - pretty much this.

The scene was a cliche to satisfy the stereotype.

That would describe quite a bit of WWII movies and shows.

 

[Baron23]

Band of Brothers was a great series. It has special meaning as well. Our son, purchased the book for me as he knew that out in the country, we would never be able to get HBO. (well actually later we were able to but didn’t want it).

So, after reading this great present, I was able to purchase the DVD set and really enjoyed it.

Point. It has come to my attention that the screen writers took several liberties over actual events. As always what makes great tv does not always make true scrips.

Any way, still enjoy the series and am thoroughly Shocked, that it was 23 years ago, when our son was just a freshman in college and gave me the book. (Still have the book and Its Not For Sale!). Time does fly when you are having fun, and I am going to have fun.

I too thought the book was excellent and yeah…I saw and enjoyed the tv series. But the book was solid as a rock.

If you like Ambrose, pick up Wild Blue about B-24 in WWII and the people who crewed them.

 

[Ichi]

Not a Tiger, but a Russian T-34 modified to look like a Tiger...

 

[JohnnyForeigner]

I managed to see the one they have in Bovington UK in moton. Amazing sound !!

 

[beetroot]

Well that escalated quickly

Though I am more Irish that British

Coffee over tea.
Bushmills over warm beer.
Worked hard and never need welfare (council flat )

Sorry about that, thought I better get the insults over with quickly (this is the bearpit after all).
I'm not even American, love British food and proper ales (cellar temperature, not room warm).

I grew up in the 90s/2000s adticted to films and shows like Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, and WW2 computer games.
Growing up then you wouldn't have even known that Great Britain and the Commonwealth even fought in WW2 other than maybe the Battle of Britain being the starting point of D Day. Where as generations before growing up in the 70s/80s had a lot of British made WW2 films.

I also think much of the "bias" in films/videos games gets reinforced by the British tendency to self denegrate so not necessariliy push back against sterotypes (that everything British is rubbish) that arose in the late 70s and 80s in the UK.
It's only recently that Brits like James Holland have pushed back against the sterotypes and tried to give a nuianced view of history.
As compared to the American culture of being more upbeat, national pride, and the thought "America is the great country in the world", also reinforced by WW2 being the begining of America being the dominant super power in the world, and the begining of the end of British Empire.

The best example I've heard of the cultural difference, is the Ameican term "Awesome" translated into British is "Could be worse".

TLDR; I think the sterotypes you see in the Band of Brothers as just carried over from the rest of the two cultures from the era, and it's only recently some Brits have begun to push back on the (self imposed) notion that everything British is crap.

 

[fpgt72]

The 17lber was the big one they had to cram in sideways. The 77mm was a modified version of the 17lber for the comet that fit marginally better and had a shorter fatter case.

The 75 was a good gun just suffered against the heavier German armor. Had a bigger HE payload vs the 76 which was better for the vast majority of targets faced. This probably wasn't much conciliation if one came face to face with a panther/tiger.

God damn it your right, I should know not to trust my memory anymore.

Sounds like you are "into" this stuff. There is a real good book out there that only a "tank nerd" can love. It is expensive, but all stuff like this is. If you get a chance check it out. There are 3 versions in the US, the original, but nothing is in english, the second and you don't have english under the photos, and the third with all english. I bought the 3rd. It is "the" book on the T34. Some real interesting stuff.

It goes into the greatly over blown.....views I guess.....on this thing. Yes it was something special, but it was hampered by being built by communists and the general faults that always come up when commies do anything. Really interesting and has more then you would ever want to know about them.

 

[Kadams1563]

I played several years of World of Tanks does that account for being a tank commander?

I don’t recall anything about BOB. Have not watched it in many years.

 

[JohnnyForeigner]

Sorry about that, thought I better get the insults over with quickly (this is the bearpit after all).
I'm not even American, love British food and proper ales (cellar temperature, not room warm).

I grew up in the 90s/2000s adticted to films and shows like Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, and WW2 computer games.
Growing up then you wouldn't have even known that Great Britain and the Commonwealth even fought in WW2 other than maybe the Battle of Britain being the starting point of D Day. Where as generations before growing up in the 70s/80s had a lot of British made WW2 films.

I also think much of the "bias" in films/videos games gets reinforced by the British tendency to self denegrate so not necessariliy push back against sterotypes (that everything British is rubbish) that arose in the late 70s and 80s in the UK.
It's only recently that Brits like James Holland have pushed back against the sterotypes and tried to give a nuianced view of history.
As compared to the American culture of being more upbeat, national pride, and the thought "America is the great country in the world", also reinforced by WW2 being the begining of America being the dominant super power in the world, and the begining of the end of British Empire.

The best example I've heard of the cultural difference, is the Ameican term "Awesome" translated into British is "Could be worse".

TLDR; I think the sterotypes you see in the Band of Brothers as just carried over from the rest of the two cultures from the era, and it's only recently some Brits have begun to push back on the (self imposed) notion that everything British is crap.

I think Hollywood has something to do with it.

And yes - "awesome" is very overused here - the grand canyon is awesome - the redwoods are awesome - yet everything is awesome here

Even in non WW2 movies - they seem to love having British guys playing the villan !

 

[Athos300]

I'll be the first to say it.

Take your tea, bad teeth, warm beer and your shit food and crawl back into your council flat.

America kicked your limey ass in both world wars, so beat it.

I’ll bet you’re the type who needs a mirror to see his own dick and has a BMI higher than his IQ.

Do enlighten us of this alternate reality of the uneducated where the US and UK fought on opposing sides in WW1 & 2.

Take your crap fast food, tranny beer and incest porn and ride your mobility scooter back to your double wide.

 

[EddieNFL]

I think Hollywood has something to do with it.

And yes - "awesome" is very overused here - the grand canyon is awesome - the redwoods are awesome - yet everything is awesome here

Even in non WW2 movies - they seem to love having British guys playing the villan !

This is why watch only foreign films. They are always factual, never over-dramatized and never biased.

 

[Milf Dots]

I remember when I first saw the scene ( British tank commander being told by GI about a Tiger laying in ambush ) and the British guy refused to shoot unless the tank showed itself, to minimise damage to houses ............ and I laughed.

"It is something that American writers just simply cannot resist. They have to be gung-ho, macho, square-jawed, with great teeth, and the British have to talk like this and say, ‘Well, I’m sorry old fruit, I can’t do that because I’m about to have my tea.’ And it’s just so annoying because British people weren’t like that. They were just like Americans"

https://screenrant.com/band-of-brothers-show-mistake-world-war-2-expert-response/

Are you an American Citizen- or just a visitor?

 

[Wyfox]

I know Staff Sergeant Joseph D. Toye's son. Pretty amazing story and history. I'll have to pick his brain more about his dad and Easy Company.

 

[JohnnyForeigner]

Are you an American Citizen- or just a visitor?

Resident a few years now ( green card ). Just about to start the process to become a US citizen.

 

[Fig]

I really loved Dunkirk. My only criticism was that it needed about 100,000 more extras. The movie did not convey the scale of the withdrawal from the continent.

People forget that the tiny island of Britain, backed by its vast empire, held out alone against the entire Axis for two years vastly out numbered and out gunned. That alone took pressure off the Russians, who actually destroyed the bulk of Nazi forces and were the point of the spear in WWII. If any one nation can claim to have prevailed in WWII its Russia by a mile.