Working up a load for my 7mm SAUM. Elk and whitetail will be hunted with this. Trying to decide on bullet for the elk. Barnes tripple shock, berger (i dont know much about this one), and accubond. Any comments or suggestions will be appreciated.
- Thread starter Curt Taylor
- Start date
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
All will work. How long of shots are you comfortable taking?
All will work. How long of shots are you comfortable taking?
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
3 to 400 yards may stretch it out more, depends on the moment.
3 to 400 yards may stretch it out more, depends on the moment.
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
If you know anything about the berger let me know. I plan on going with the 175 grain tripple shock from barnes but have not purchased them yet.
If you know anything about the berger let me know. I plan on going with the 175 grain tripple shock from barnes but have not purchased them yet.
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
For mid range hunting bullets (at or under 500 to 600 yards) I'm currently a fan of Barnes Tipped TSX bullets. They retain weight, expand well and do the job. Punch one through a shoulder and break the elk down and it won't be going anywhere. The tipped TSX will retain enough weight to break stuff at that range, I can't speak for the other two since I've never shot anything but paper with them.
If I was shooting longer ranges I'd look for a higher BC bullet like the Berger.
For mid range hunting bullets (at or under 500 to 600 yards) I'm currently a fan of Barnes Tipped TSX bullets. They retain weight, expand well and do the job. Punch one through a shoulder and break the elk down and it won't be going anywhere. The tipped TSX will retain enough weight to break stuff at that range, I can't speak for the other two since I've never shot anything but paper with them.
If I was shooting longer ranges I'd look for a higher BC bullet like the Berger.
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
Barnes Kills.IMO and experiance the Barnes removes the bullet performance variable.
Barnes Kills.IMO and experiance the Barnes removes the bullet performance variable.
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
If it were me I'd look harder at the 150 grain T-TSX and not the 175's. The 150 T-TSX has a higher BC and with the lighter weight you'll be able to push them faster, resulting in better ballistics for you.
The thing to remember is that the bullets of today are constructed differently than the old ones. You used to shoot a 175 hoping for a retained weight of 150 to 160gr to push on through. The bullets now have better manufacturing processes, all copper, etc etc and they hold together very well. I have a tipped TSX bullet from a cow elk my dad shot at about 450 yards, the bullet started out at 168 grains, it weighed 167.9 grains on my Chargemaster. The plastic tip weighs more than that, but I'm thinking the blood and hair on the bullet added some weight. I'm actually surprised they found it since the TSX's typically retain enough weight and punch out the far side. I wasn't there so I don't know if it traveled lengthwise or what.
You can use a 150 of today where you needed a 175 10 years ago.
If it were me I'd look harder at the 150 grain T-TSX and not the 175's. The 150 T-TSX has a higher BC and with the lighter weight you'll be able to push them faster, resulting in better ballistics for you.
The thing to remember is that the bullets of today are constructed differently than the old ones. You used to shoot a 175 hoping for a retained weight of 150 to 160gr to push on through. The bullets now have better manufacturing processes, all copper, etc etc and they hold together very well. I have a tipped TSX bullet from a cow elk my dad shot at about 450 yards, the bullet started out at 168 grains, it weighed 167.9 grains on my Chargemaster. The plastic tip weighs more than that, but I'm thinking the blood and hair on the bullet added some weight. I'm actually surprised they found it since the TSX's typically retain enough weight and punch out the far side. I wasn't there so I don't know if it traveled lengthwise or what.
You can use a 150 of today where you needed a 175 10 years ago.
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
I was just thinking bigger is better but didnt really know. thanks for the comments. I would rather shoot a 150 grain so it would be more versitle. I like 150 for deer but have never killed an elk.
I was just thinking bigger is better but didnt really know. thanks for the comments. I would rather shoot a 150 grain so it would be more versitle. I like 150 for deer but have never killed an elk.
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
Don't take my opinion as gospel, I'm sure others will chime in.
I will say that I was hunting deer and elk in CO with my 257 Weatherby and 100 grain TSXs and never felt under-gunned. Never got the chance at an elk that trip, but a deer feel to that combo at 520 yards.
Plenty of elk have been killed with less powerful combos than a 7saum and 150 grains of terror. Remember, 90% of it is where you poke the hole.
Don't take my opinion as gospel, I'm sure others will chime in.
I will say that I was hunting deer and elk in CO with my 257 Weatherby and 100 grain TSXs and never felt under-gunned. Never got the chance at an elk that trip, but a deer feel to that combo at 520 yards.
Plenty of elk have been killed with less powerful combos than a 7saum and 150 grains of terror. Remember, 90% of it is where you poke the hole.
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
True.. I have only been outwest one other time on a mule deer hunt. had to pass on 180" muley due to not being comfortable with a 400 yard shot with a 25-06. Just dont want to do the same with an elk. Ended up with a 160" muley with 117 grain bullet. I feel more comfortable with the 7mm though. I just want to take account for human error.
True.. I have only been outwest one other time on a mule deer hunt. had to pass on 180" muley due to not being comfortable with a 400 yard shot with a 25-06. Just dont want to do the same with an elk. Ended up with a 160" muley with 117 grain bullet. I feel more comfortable with the 7mm though. I just want to take account for human error.
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
My vote would be for the 160g NAB (BC 531) over the 150g TTSX (BC 450). To shoot at 500 yards, either bullet you will need to adjust for bullet drop, so wind becomes the biggest factor. Higher BC means less wind drift, although at 500 yards the difference will not much to differentiate the two.
I would feel more secure with the NAB expanding at lower velocities at that distance than the TTSX.
The NAB will also expand more on the the deer, so I would think that they would be a better deer bullet.
Just my opinion, others will differ.
Lastly, on my testing at 100y with the bullet test tube with 25 calber bullets, the TSX only penetrated 1/2 inch further but the NAB made a much bigger hole.
My vote would be for the 160g NAB (BC 531) over the 150g TTSX (BC 450). To shoot at 500 yards, either bullet you will need to adjust for bullet drop, so wind becomes the biggest factor. Higher BC means less wind drift, although at 500 yards the difference will not much to differentiate the two.
I would feel more secure with the NAB expanding at lower velocities at that distance than the TTSX.
The NAB will also expand more on the the deer, so I would think that they would be a better deer bullet.
Just my opinion, others will differ.
Lastly, on my testing at 100y with the bullet test tube with 25 calber bullets, the TSX only penetrated 1/2 inch further but the NAB made a much bigger hole.
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
thanks that the stuff im looking for
thanks that the stuff im looking for
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
I always used regular, old Nosler partitions in my hunting rifles. They have been exremely accurate, and have always put down whatever they hit.
But, a few years ago, when I went to Africa, they told me NOT to bring Noslers, but, Barnes, or Swift. I'd tried Barnes in several rifles, and the only one I have that shoots them decent is my Remington 700, in .338 Winchester magnum.
6 shots, for 6 animals in Africa, which kind of impressed me after I saw a fellow hunter make a good hit on an impala with a .300 Weatherby magnum, and it ran off!!
I always used regular, old Nosler partitions in my hunting rifles. They have been exremely accurate, and have always put down whatever they hit.
But, a few years ago, when I went to Africa, they told me NOT to bring Noslers, but, Barnes, or Swift. I'd tried Barnes in several rifles, and the only one I have that shoots them decent is my Remington 700, in .338 Winchester magnum.
6 shots, for 6 animals in Africa, which kind of impressed me after I saw a fellow hunter make a good hit on an impala with a .300 Weatherby magnum, and it ran off!!
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
The Barnes will not fail you if you have to shoot at a bad angle or break big bones to get to the vitals. It will also almost always poke two holes which equals more damage and better tracking, if needed. As for 500 yard shots, all I will say is I have yet to meet an Elk that cannot be approached within 300 yards and most a lot closer. While I like to shoot steel, paper and varmints at long range, IMO REPEAT IMO the chance of wounding a noble animal like the Elk, Deer, Antelope etc., does not justify trying to overcome all the variables in shooting at big game at extended ranges. Just one old fart's opinion gleaned from 50 years of hunting in NY, GA, MS, WY, ID and MT.
Most successful guides and PHs appear to agree with me as they always try to get the client as close as possible.
The Barnes will not fail you if you have to shoot at a bad angle or break big bones to get to the vitals. It will also almost always poke two holes which equals more damage and better tracking, if needed. As for 500 yard shots, all I will say is I have yet to meet an Elk that cannot be approached within 300 yards and most a lot closer. While I like to shoot steel, paper and varmints at long range, IMO REPEAT IMO the chance of wounding a noble animal like the Elk, Deer, Antelope etc., does not justify trying to overcome all the variables in shooting at big game at extended ranges. Just one old fart's opinion gleaned from 50 years of hunting in NY, GA, MS, WY, ID and MT.
Most successful guides and PHs appear to agree with me as they always try to get the client as close as possible.
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
Go to BestoftheWest.com, they are killing elk at 700 yards with the Berger VLD's.
Go to BestoftheWest.com, they are killing elk at 700 yards with the Berger VLD's.
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
Mr. Humble dont take me wrong I have never been hunting for elk. I will take as close of a shot as possible. I agree with all that you said. I am really learning alot from you guys. Thanks for the input. I think if I can get the barnes TSX to shoot through my rifle I will try them,if they dont I will probably try the berger VLD. Any objections??
Thanks again
Mr. Humble dont take me wrong I have never been hunting for elk. I will take as close of a shot as possible. I agree with all that you said. I am really learning alot from you guys. Thanks for the input. I think if I can get the barnes TSX to shoot through my rifle I will try them,if they dont I will probably try the berger VLD. Any objections??
Thanks again
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
I would try the Nosler stuff...they make very good hunting bullets. Ive always liked the partition and now the accubonds.
Seen a lot of large critters taken with both...up to and including Alaskan Yukon Moose. They work well. You still need to connect with a proper shot.
I would try the Nosler stuff...they make very good hunting bullets. Ive always liked the partition and now the accubonds.
Seen a lot of large critters taken with both...up to and including Alaskan Yukon Moose. They work well. You still need to connect with a proper shot.
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
One of my hunters poses with a really good 6X6 bull (355 B&C)
that he took with his .300 Weatherby shooting hand loaded 180gr Nosler accubonds. The shot was 180 yards. The bull was anchored on the spot with one broadside shoulder shot. October 2004.
One of my hunters poses with a really good 6X6 bull (355 B&C)
that he took with his .300 Weatherby shooting hand loaded 180gr Nosler accubonds. The shot was 180 yards. The bull was anchored on the spot with one broadside shoulder shot. October 2004.
Re: Barnes X, Berger, or Nosler
Nice bull, I shoot Nosler in my .300 win. mag and they do perform well for me. I may end up with accubonds afterall because Im not sure how well the barnes are going to group. Im starting to have worries. Still working on it though.
Nice bull, I shoot Nosler in my .300 win. mag and they do perform well for me. I may end up with accubonds afterall because Im not sure how well the barnes are going to group. Im starting to have worries. Still working on it though.
