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Barrel Break In and Cleaning Questions

Ibelieve1776

Ibelieve1776

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Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 17, 2013
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Jupiter, FL
I am getting a new barrel for my 300wm and Im doing my research on barrel break in because I want to do this one the right way. Call me crazy but it makes perfect sense to me to leave the copper in the bore because when you think about it the first thing you do at the range is fire off some fouling shots. However I am also open to reasons why leaving copper in isnt the best idea. I have been watching a series on Youtube by TiborasaurusRex titled Sniper 101 in which he describes the "Copper Equilibrium" barrel break in method. Essentially you never clean out copper until accuracy drops off. Please give me your thoughts on break in and cleaning. Thank You
 
Shoot it once, then run a clean bullet after the first shot and repeat. If it it a quality barrel, you won't need to clean it till accuracy falls off. My Bartlein went 220 rounds before it opened up a little. That is when it got its first cleaning. It consistently shot groups like this with no change in accuracy.
 

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Search this site some. Try the below in google. I'll give you a hint; you're overthinking this.

Code: 
barrel break in site:snipershide.com
 
Just shoot it. I clean a new barrel after its chambered. We just build a 308 and 6MMBR. Both shoot 1/2 moa or less with no break in. Aggressive cleaning just speeds up barrel wear. My Bartlein shot a 2.5in group at 500 yards wednesday. I sighted the rifle in on tuesday and did some quick load development. After 30 rounds I packed up and gave it a few passes with a patch thats all. Ive been meaning to look down the bore with my Hawkeye to see what kind of fouling it has.
 
coach4christ said:
Not for my super sniper precision rig. I only get .1 inch at 1000 yards with used bullets.
Click to expand...

Im starting a new compnay who wants in? We go to ranges scouring for "Once Fired" bullets we will guarantee sub MOA. YOu guys are funny. I saw the clean bullet thing but sometimes jokes are lost in text.
 
you need to take this clean bullet tech to a public range and enlighten all the new ar15 owners,then sit back and watch the
fun begin.offer them a micro fiber cloth and tell them its the proper rag for a correct break-in :)
 
300Winny said:
I am getting a new barrel for my 300wm and Im doing my research on barrel break in because I want to do this one the right way. Call me crazy but it makes perfect sense to me to leave the copper in the bore because when you think about it the first thing you do at the range is fire off some fouling shots. However I am also open to reasons why leaving copper in isnt the best idea. I have been watching a series on Youtube by TiborasaurusRex titled Sniper 101 in which he describes the "Copper Equilibrium" barrel break in method. Essentially you never clean out copper until accuracy drops off. Please give me your thoughts on break in and cleaning. Thank You
Click to expand...

When I got my Surgeon I didn't follow any special break in procedure and it's a shooter. I personally don't think it matters. Clean it when it needs it.

Read this please.

How to Break-in a Barrel
 
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After shooting my rifle, I'll wipe down the action / bolt. I don't plan on touching the barrel until my groups start opening up. My glocks get more cleaning attention than my rifle.
 
Link below is video talking about the 2 different break in procedures:

SNIPER 101 Part 43 - Barrel Break In Procedures Compared - YouTube

It's a long video, but discuss theory, how to, etc.

Here is the synposis he posted along with the video:

Published on Apr 7, 2013

How to break in your rifle barrel for long range shooting, explained.

A proper break-in is commonly reported to reduce a barrel's propensity to foul (and hence the need to clean frequently) over the life of the barrel.

Benchrest Shooter's barrel break in procedure:

This 1st procedure is the most effective for rifles on aggressive cleaning regimes where they are cleaned thoroughly after each shot cycle or field usage. In an aggressive cleaning regime full copper equilibrium is rarely attained, so break in procedures help to flatten the coppering build curve which minimizes bore condition variation immediately after a full aggressive cleaning.




Procedure (only for NEW barrels) - IF you anticipate having to employ an aggressive reaning regime.

1. Before firing rifle for first time - clean bore and chamber thoroughly
2. Fire 1 shot
3. Clean with powder solvent (Shooter's Choice) 10 strokes
4. Dry bore with patches (usually 3)
5. Run a patch with Sweets 762 copper solvent (a few drops) 1 stroke
6. Wait 2 or 3 minutes
7. Run 1 patch wetted with WD-40 to chase Sweets out
8. Run 2 or 3 clean patches to dry bore
9. Wrap a patch around a jag smeared with JB Bore Cleaning Compound -- do 10 strokes -- DO NOT allow patch to exit the muzzle until last stroke where you push it our the end and remove the patch.
10. Run patch wetted with WD-40 all the way through the bore until ALL of the JB and metal grindings are out, may take 3 or 4 times
11. Run dry patches through bore until perfectly clean

Repeat steps 2-11 of this process for every shot for the first 30 rounds.
Then, shoot 5 - clean once - for the next 30 rounds.

...only use this procedure if you NEED to employ an aggressive cleaning regime due to particularly corrosive environments OR if if there are indications your particular bore needs it.

Procedure # 2

Cu Equilibrium Break In Procedure - Recomended for ELR Precision Shooters attempting to maintain Copper Equilibrium in their bore.

Procedure:

1) Before firing rifle for first time - clean bore and chamber thoroughly
2) Fire 1st shot
3) Clean with mild powder solvent 10 strokes
4) Dry bore with patches until clean (usually 3)

Repeat process for each shot for the first 5 rounds
After the first 5 rounds, repeat cleaning process every 5 rounds for the next 25 rounds.
 
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Bad thread, REALLY bad info. Proper barrel breakin is critical.
 
GoldnGun said:
Bad thread, REALLY bad info. Proper barrel breakin is critical.
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Please elaborate. This comment provides no information. What info is bad?

Having said that, I do perform break n procedures. Some manufacturers feel that it is unnecessary, but list a procedure because they are asked for one.
 
GoldnGun said:
Bad thread, REALLY bad info. Proper barrel breakin is critical.
Click to expand...

You're right, what would LowLight know?

LowLight said:
I tend to clean my barrels much less then most but still manage well over 10,000 rounds staying below an MOA at 100 yards. I recently rebarreled my GAP Harbinger with a Broughton .30 cal barrel after it had what I conservatively estimated 12k rounds down the rifle. It was just about hovering at .75" at 100 yards. According to GAP it was worn about 1/4" in the throat.

At Rifles Only the SHR #50 had in excess of 15,000 rounds through it before changing the barrel with no break in and very little cleaning. It too was shooting about .75" when the action would cock the bolt. GAP reported about 4" of rifling missing from in front of the throat.

My Werewolf with a Bartlein Barrel has about 6k rounds currently through it, no break in, and no issue with accuracy or fouling, it shoots a solid 1/2 MOA.

The Gladius, about 3k rounds through it hits like a hammer, very little cleaning and no break in.

None of my gas guns have had their barrels broken in either, that is 3, a POF, a GAP with a Rock Creek and a Bartlein. No issues, very accurate and no fouling.

I also spoke with Tac Ops on the subject, and he does not believe in breaking in a barrel, Mike R does not recommend any form of break in, and does his test firing without doing so. So there is another voice in the mix that after years of experience does not feel there is any merit to the process. He did mention, as others have as well, that it's a bit of a pain in the ass because most customers expect some form of guidance and he simply recommends they shoot more and clean less, much to their chagrin.

So while data may not be available with hard and fast evidence, I have quite a bit of rounds downrange with a variety of similarly chambered 308s from a variety of makers and my results as well as opinions appear to be all the same. Clean less, shoot more and don't sweat the dogma published in the name of Barrel Break In.
Click to expand...
 
Voodoo...

Here is another example,

I bought two identical TRG-22 rifles, one I broke as generally recommended, the other I did not. I just shoot it and cleaned as necessary. In the end you couldn't tell which one was broken in, and which one was not. It was impossible to tell the difference.

Now, here is something where I blame me the builder... I took the Robert Gradous gunsmithing class where I built my own rifle in a matter of 4 days. Understand I have absolutely zero time on a lathe and had no prior experience building a precision rifle. All the work was done by me with Robert looking over my shoulder. That rifle needed about 125 rounds of constant cleaning in the beginning . It was not shooting, (sub MOA) and was fouling bad. I had to shoot 5 rounds, clean it, shoot, clean, etc. After about 125 rounds of doing this, the rifle tightened up, stopped fouling and went sub 1/2 MOA. What was the cause of this... me the builder. I was not smooth or experienced enough on the machine and I chambered the barrel. I did all the work. So if the rifle is not working you can definitely look at the build, and not take this as a sign of a common method, or a necessity. It was all my fault and took a lot of effort to fix when it came to cleaning and firing it. It was beyond clear and not subtle at all.

I get a new rifle more than most and 99% of the time there is absolutely no reason to break them in. When there is a reason, it is a neon sign.

I recently received a brand new GAP 6mm Creedmoor. I did no break in at all, shoot about 100 rounds, cleaned it normal. (In fact George cleaned it cause he knew I wasn't gonna) I fired another 100 rounds, cleaned it, and then fired the match. No break in, just shoot it all day, cleaned it at the end. It did not foul, it did not copper, and it did not deviate. So it goes to show the builder matters.

Here is George cleaning my rifle, with just WipeOut, nothing else, no brush, no harsh solvents, just a patch.
1277438_10151944882987953_2047213137_o.jpg


Groups prior to any cleaning, by the way, came in 11th out of 92 shooters. (and I used two different kinds of ammo doing it)
1184851_10151934575092953_848868271_n.jpg


Barrel break in, is more about the shooter and less about the gun. If it makes you feel better, clean it. But understand with most rifles today it's completely unnecessary. Especially with custom rifles.

If you find your off the shelf Remington 5R needs it more, well guess what you have a Monday morning or Friday Afternoon rifle and your barrel was made by the guy who sweeps the floor. Ya it sucks, and you can work on it, but don't think that is how it is supposed to be. Once you get it working it, leave it alone. Clean less, shoot more.

I will put my collection against of rifles against anyone here, rifles I use, and not just look at... and in the last 5 years alone I have only had to break in that ONE rifle.
 
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I don't barrel brake in and I feel like it's never hurt me, always been happy with my accuracy. My first range trip is used to sight in my rifle, and a simple. 3-5 shot group. Than I clean it good with ISSO, start load Dev, clean really good again. Than after about every 18-20 rounds I just run 7 patches with bore tech on it and 3 dry ones. I feel like that keeps my accuracy sharp. For example I shot a 2.87" 4 shot at. 639 yards, decided not to clean after those 20 rounds, than went out and shot a 4.05" at 639, that could just be me being pysc'd out though ;)
 
Break-in procedure:

Run a patch down the barrel prior to first shot (boresnake works too).

Shoot the shit out of it until accuracy drops off.

Clean.

Rinse/repeat, etc.
 
I read these kinds of threads all the time.... it's remarkable the number of different answers you get. That all said....here is one crucial point no one ever brings up when answering with their own favorite method (or more correctly....if a "break-in" is needed at all)--->

- the point of whether or not we're talking a normal factory barrel....or a custom-built barrel. The difference being the factory barrel will likely have rough machining marks still present, and maybe a sharp and jagged transition in the throat area (as well as maybe a few tight spots in the barrel along the way)....whereas the custom barrel will probably have been hand-lapped prior to delivery.

Once we take the factory vs custom issue in-play.....I would guess the answer is the custom barrel will NOT require a break-in period...and the factory barrel WILL require a break-in, if only to try to smooth out or fill-in the rough machining marks that would otherwise lead to a high-degree of fouling and maybe cause accuracy issues too.

Is this reasonable?
 
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Why would a factory barrel be rougher ?

If that is the case it's a problem, welcome to 2014 were our methods and machines are much better than they were in 1978. If the company let the tool get dull and create chatter marks would you call that "normal"? If the company lets an unskilled worker chamber vs a company that has a skilled machinist do the job would you call that an acceptable practice.

It's not normal, and a factory barrel should be no different as it's not 40 years ago. We know what makes a good barrel, and we have the tools to do it. The problem is people in the shooting world are all too happy to talk as if we're still back in the 70's and continue to mimic shit Grandpa said ....

We we have better bullets, barrels, powders, methods, and understanding ... Why fall back on methods of a by-gone time. They no longer apply.... We've rewritten so much it's silly to think all that voodoo still applies.
 
I don't think even the best factory barrels are hand-lapped as most custom barrels are. Are you implying they are all the same, equally devoid of tight spots and equally devoid of machining marks? I don't think so as "custom" is just that....a extremely high-quality piece that cannot be reproduced on a mass-manufacturing basis. One reason a lot of guys here spend the big $$$$ to get one.
 
IPSC said:
I don't think even the best factory barrels are hand-lapped as most custom barrels are. Are you implying they are all the same, equally devoid of tight spots and equally devoid of machining marks? I don't think so as "custom" is just that....a extremely high-quality piece that cannot be reproduced on a mass-manufacturing basis. One reason a lot of guys here spend the big $$$$ to get one.
Click to expand...

He's implying that they're usually good to go out of the factory.
 
IPSC said:
I read these kinds of threads all the time.... it's remarkable the number of different answers you get. That all said....here is one crucial point no one ever brings up when answering with their own favorite method (or more correctly....if a "break-in" is needed at all)--->

- the point of whether or not we're talking a normal factory barrel....or a custom-built barrel. The difference being the factory barrel will likely have rough machining marks still present, and maybe a sharp and jagged transition in the throat area (as well as maybe a few tight spots in the barrel along the way)....whereas the custom barrel will probably have been hand-lapped prior to delivery.

Once we take the factory vs custom issue in-play.....I would guess the answer is the custom barrel will NOT require a break-in period...and the factory barrel WILL require a break-in, if only to try to smooth out or fill-in the rough machining marks that would otherwise lead to a high-degree of fouling and maybe cause accuracy issues too.

Is this reasonable?
Click to expand...

It is a custom barrel we are talking about and it will be hand lapped.
 
Really,

I did the experiment with the TRGs, they are factory.

AI UK barrels are factory, never broke one of those in..,

I think people over estimate the effects. It takes much more than what a typical machine produces, it's a combination of tooling, RPMs, etc, not just the factory it's mass produced. They lapping may help, but you're assuming a lot of negative with a factory barrel. High end barrel makers are mass producing a lot, and their methods have trickled down to large companies like Remington.
 
Lowlight said:
Really,

I did the experiment with the TRGs, they are factory.

AI UK barrels are factory, never broke one of those in..,

I think people over estimate the effects. It takes much more than what a typical machine produces, it's a combination of tooling, RPMs, etc, not just the factory it's mass produced. They lapping may help, but you're assuming a lot of negative with a factory barrel. High end barrel makers are mass producing a lot, and their methods have trickled down to large companies like Remington.
Click to expand...

I'm no gunsmith but i have looked down the bore of multiple rifles with a bore scope and the difference between factory(rem, savage, tikka) and hand lapped and polished(as in the chambers) barrels(bartlien, criterion, krieger) is pretty dramatic and obvious.
 
If custom barrel makers were offering no "Added value".....then serious bench-rest shooters and Snipers would not opt for them and they'd be out of business....if they were THAT equal to factory barrels.

Maybe my point was missed. I'm not saying the factory tubes are junk. They shoot fine. But we're talking about the possible good ( or neutral) effects a "break-in" procedure would have. My point is the factory barrel ( as good as it is) will likely be rougher at some points and will therefore tend to foul more quickly. A break-in will fill in some of the micro-machining grooves with copper fouling.... to result in a smoother surface much like the hand-lapping that was done on a custom barrel. Therefore the benefits of breaking-in a barrel needs to address the question first of what kind of barrel we're talking about.
 
Please spare me,

You're taking cross purposes, and like i said, TRGs are "sniper rifles' that are used in fighting, AIs are sniper rifles used by over 60 countries and they are not custom hand lapped.

You don't understand what you are saying, you're guessing, and you're assuming that shooting 5 rounds without any "cleaning or break in" doesn't do the same thing as a "break in method" ...

The value is different... and I really don't think you understand just how many barrels, barrel makers actual make. They are not some minor boutiques. Even the best produce in quantity.

The value is, some might slip through the cracks with a factory barrel, but you are paying to insure that quality from barrel to barrel. Plus, you think the Army is getting custom barrels from Remington or that Remington hasn't look at the methods. They have brought in custom barrel makers to help set themselves up.

You're idea of what it is, doesn't make it fact.
 
Furthermore.....here is an old post made by Gale McMillan. It basically says break-in's are not necessary and the "fad" developed early-on and makes life happy for replacement barrel makers. However, notice that there is a difference in viewpoint if we're talking production vs custom barrels.

Barrel Break-In

If you really have a lot spare time on your hands, read this, ....but again, notice that the arguments going back-and-forth do not differentiate between a factory and custom barrel. In my view, had this been done at the outset, a lot of repeat posts would not have been made, as "each-side" has a point to make. But it would have been much clearer if we knew what kind of barrel we were talking about

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...jective-research-barrel-break-procedures.html

.
 
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InkedIan said:
I'm no gunsmith but i have looked down the bore of multiple rifles with a bore scope and the difference between factory(rem, savage, tikka) and hand lapped and polished(as in the chambers) barrels(bartlien, criterion, krieger) is pretty dramatic and obvious.
Click to expand...

My point exactly, the what you see is begin magnified and you're idea of what those effects are, is not the same.

Borescope for the individual is the BAIN of the shooting world, ask any gunsmith. Uneducated people trying to read the metal is a joke at best.

Pick out the worst, give it to me, i will not break it in and show you it does not foul like you think.
 
You're reading challenged... and have no understanding of what he is saying.

He doesn't qualify it with custom vs factory, he says a production barrel is tough to be exact.

A moderator said it, not Gale and he came back with

The metal shavings would have had to get in the barrel after it was test fired. The barrel was a hammer forged or buttoned barrel which is not machined and is very smooth finished. No one ever said not to clean a new rifle only that it is not necessary to break it in.
Click to expand...
 
More barrels are probably damaged by improper cleaning methods etal., then lack of cleaning. I have also heard/read (it was on the internet so it MUST be true), that the meticulous barrel break in procedures (shoot, clean, shoot, clean,shoot, clean for 10, shoot 3 shot groups, clean, blah blah blah), were originally proposed by barrel manufacturers so they could sell more barrels. Me, I like to shoot, and I definitely NEED the practice!!! So I shoot more, and clean when I feel really guilty about it, and that don't happen very often.
 
Excuse me, [MENTION=75056]IPSC[/MENTION],

i have more rifles than you ever dreamed up, of a greater variety, and can tell you, when it's necessary the rifle spells it out in clear bold text. This is not common, especially today.

You guys are confusing "Rifle Cut" barrels to Hammer Forged, and Button Cut... and don't understand the differences.

It's not 1978, plain and simple.

if the chambering tool is dull, or the speed of the machine is off, or speed at which is cutting is wrong, you'll have issues. But properly done, which most do, it's unnecessary. You're acting like every barrel is made the same way. They are not. Different methods produce different results. The biggest issue is not the Bore, but the chamber and that is dependent on the reamer. Guys have seen chambers cut off center, that is not a common thing, but happens, having a rough chamber can be part of the same problem.

Like I said, name the rifle, I will show you, in bright bold letters.
 
Lowlight said:
My point exactly, the what you see is begin magnified and you're idea of what those effects are, is not the same.

Borescope for the individual is the BAIN of the shooting world, ask any gunsmith. Uneducated people trying to read the metal is a joke at best.

Pick out the worst, give it to me, i will not break it in and show you it does not foul like you think.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately as much of a savage fan as I may be owning a few I can tell you they visually have some of the worse machining marks(chamber and rifling) i've ever seen and do foul quicker than my other rifles. On the other hand the accuracy is great for the first 50 rds + or -. One of the smoothest i've ever seen was a criterion I had installed and I've never pushed a blue patch through it except the one time i used a brass jag. So I guess experiences can vary but I know by my experience there is a difference. On that note I don't break in barrels just cause i've done it and don't like it..
 
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Lowlight..... any reason why we can't keep this civil? You seem to be taking all this with a high-degree of emotion. ( Quote.." i have more rifles than you ever dreamed up, of a greater variety...". Is this really necessary?)

We're all here to share thoughts, experiences, and viewpoints. If this topic were so cut-n-dry...maybe we wouldn't see this question come up as it does so many times in so many forums. I understand the difference between a hammer forged vs button-rilfed or "cut" barrel". At least on one point, look again at Gale Mcmillan saying he started someone out in the business and that the other guy says he started this "break-in" business to sell more barrels. So I'm agreeing that much of this can be bunk, as to the need to break-in, but it focuses again on the extra quality and care that comes with custom-made barrel. That's the only point of differentiation I made in bringing this up in the first place. The never-ending break-in questions don't seem to address the type and quality of barrel we're starting out with.
 
Here were the first shots out of my Surgeon Scalpel, 12 shots down the tube, first 7 were sight in "not pictured". Here are the last 5 at 100. Like I said I don't give much thought to break in. I generally let the gun tell me what it needs. Listen to what Lowlight is saying, he has more experience and rifles than most of us on here.

TcY14pk.jpg

IkADse0.jpg

5RdxjIf.jpg
 
Tickle said:
Here were the first shots out of my Surgeon Scalpel, 12 shots down the tube, first 7 were sight in "not pictured". Here are the last 5 at 100. Like I said I don't give much thought to break in. I generally let the gun tell me what it needs. Listen to what Lowlight is saying, he has more experience and rifles than most of us on here.

TcY14pk.jpg

IkADse0.jpg

5RdxjIf.jpg
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is arguing about it's effects on accuracy.... At least not until it's fouled... I think the main arguement/question is will it reduce fouling which will extend accuracy.
 
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Another way to say this..... maybe break-in is not necessary but a rough barrel will foul quicker making the gun tell you that much "Sooner" that it needs attention....whereas a smoothed barrel (by whatever process) will allow more shots through before it goes south. And this--> the "fouling" may be very hard to get out depending if it's copper fouling vs carbon-ring fouling. At some point, certain type of carbon fouling especially near the throat makes it almost impossible to remove. Breaking in a "rough" barrel may extend the accurate round count between cleanings,.... no?
 
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