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Barrel for a 16" Recce build?

W

_Will_

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Minuteman
Jan 11, 2022
28
8
WA
Looking to finish off my 16" Recce build with a LPVO Sig tango. Naturally, the barrel that came to mind for this build was a Criterion Core... which is proving to be difficult like playing a game of cat and mouse.

Ideally, I would like to keep the weight down as I plan to be mobile with rifle for drills, carrying etc. Another option that came up that similar profile( minus the chrome lining) was Rainier Arms ultralight 223 Wylde barrel. Then of course I've looked at Faxon Gunner Match ( seems this is hit or miss literally) Or their fluted series.

Can you help a brother out and recommend a barrel before I break down from analysis paralysis. ?:LOL:
 
I went with a 16" Wilson combat recon fluted barrel for mine. I have been happy with it. Don't have a lot of rounds on it yet but it seems to be quite accurate and fairly lightweight at I think 28 ounces. Shooting with a 1-6× it will put 5 rounds of mk262 in a 1" group at 100. Pretty sure I could tighten it up with a higher powered scope as well. And when they go on sale they are under $250.
 
Trigger Monkey said:
White Oak Armament 16" SPR barrel. It's heavier then you might be looking for but hopefully the extra weight won't break you and it's a proven, accurate, and affordable barrel. All of mine have hammered with factory match.
Click to expand...

Another vote for White Oak, I have several of their barrels, couple fluted ones, and they are all very, very accurate and personally I would say incredible for the price they charge.
 
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I dont know what your price range is but if you have the money I would look at the craddock precision signature 16.25” 223 wylde. I think They are around $550 but it’s a bartlein gain twist blank chambered by craddock so you know it will be awesome
 
tylerradke said:
I went with a 16" Wilson combat recon fluted barrel for mine. I have been happy with it. Don't have a lot of rounds on it yet but it seems to be quite accurate and fairly lightweight at I think 28 ounces. Shooting with a 1-6× it will put 5 rounds of mk262 in a 1" group at 100. Pretty sure I could tighten it up with a higher powered scope as well. And when they go on sale they are under $250.
Click to expand...
20230114_102620.jpg
I have the same barrel and it is very accurate for the price. Here are a few 50 yard groups with some of my 55gr Hornady FMJ reloads, 24.5 grains of TAC on the left and 24.5 grains of H335 on the right. Scope used is a 1-6x Delta Stryker. I think I'm going to start using TAC for all of my 223 ammo. It shoots good with light and heavy bullets in all of my rifles.
 
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Merle said:
View attachment 8085418I have the same barrel and it is very accurate for the price. Here are a few 50 yard groups with some of my 55gr Hornady FMJ reloads, 24.5 grains of TAC on the left and 24.5 grains of H335 on the right. Scope used is a 1-6x Delta Stryker. I think I'm going to start using TAC for all of my 223 ammo. It shoots good with light and heavy bullets in all of my rifles.
Click to expand...
I was looking at the same barrel myself earlier. Just wish Wilson Combat offered 223 Wylde for 16". With your grouping it looks like that whole discussion is not even warranted. I could do a similar load myself with my Hornady Lock n Load. I have 8 lbs of Ramshot Tac lol. It's a great powder just gets into everything as it's so small.
 
_Will_ said:
Looking to finish off my 16" Recce build with a LPVO Sig tango. Naturally, the barrel that came to mind for this build was a Criterion Core... which is proving to be difficult like playing a game of cat and mouse.

Ideally, I would like to keep the weight down as I plan to be mobile with rifle for drills, carrying etc. Another option that came up that similar profile( minus the chrome lining) was Rainier Arms ultralight 223 Wylde barrel. Then of course I've looked at Faxon Gunner Match ( seems this is hit or miss literally) Or their fluted series.

Can you help a brother out and recommend a barrel before I break down from analysis paralysis. ?:LOL:
Click to expand...

Tons of cheap lighter profile nitride barrels with accuracy guarantees that would work fine.

If it's going to double as a varmint rifle or you are picky about accuracy then a white oak is the cheapest I'd go, or spend more for something custom.
 
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V Seven. I have a fluted lightweight 16" 223 wylde. Legitimate 1/2 moa barrel - will put 5 inside a dime and 10 inside a nickel.

edit - the only targets I have on this machine - first time sighting in with a shot in the dark load @ 100 yds. Some shot faster than others - some sighters - evident as you look at the target. Second is 5 shots @ 200 yds with the same load - black dot is 1/2".

F75D90F3-B927-4176-9CF0-AC2399A65041.jpeg
E66F8505-1027-45DC-9BB8-08D826CC4781.jpeg
 
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Merle said:
View attachment 8085418I have the same barrel and it is very accurate for the price. Here are a few 50 yard groups with some of my 55gr Hornady FMJ reloads, 24.5 grains of TAC on the left and 24.5 grains of H335 on the right. Scope used is a 1-6x Delta Stryker. I think I'm going to start using TAC for all of my 223 ammo. It shoots good with light and heavy bullets in all of my rifles.
Click to expand...
I also have this same barrel from WC, fluted lightweight & it shoots very, very well & better than I expected & the bore looks great & doesn't foul much.

Although they can be had for around $250 when they are on sale, I didn't mention them as the one I have from almost 2 years ago had a VERY TIGHT chamber HS wise & I ended up having to stone a bolt to get to minimum HS so that most new brass or factory ammo would chamber. 6 other various new bolts from4 different manufacturers would not close on4 or 5 different factory rounds....................not good.

Supposedly they chambered tight on purpose, but according to Bill Wilson they have now adjusted their chambering to be more in line with typical industry practice to come in at about minimum +.002".

i have never, ever had that issue with more than 20 other barrels.

JME

MM
 
WOA or that overrun sale mentioned above. I used a 16" core on mine tho. Worth the wait imo for the weight savings.
 
What is your definition of a recce gun? The traditional Naval Special Warfare side of the house answer is a 16" accurate stainless barrel (MOA) that is scoped. That was from mid-GWOT and has since morphed into today's SPR.

Under that definition, the barrel needs to be accurate but can also take a beating if you need to partake in a large quantity of fire, which means they are not cheap. @RUTGERS95 is correct about Centurion Arms. They closest thing we have to those OG barrels - https://centurionarms.com/recce-barrel/.

Other honorable mentions would be Noveske (Johnny worked on some of these pre-death) 16" Recon - https://noveske.com/products/lo-pro-gas-block-barrel-5-56/?attribute_barrel-length=7.94" Diplomat&attribute_headspaced-bolt=NO
and V Seven (same lineage) Stainless Match - https://www.vsevenweaponsystems.com/5-56-223-barrels/v7-stainless-match-barrel-16

I personally went with the V Seven and its a laser.

@Docsherm may have some promising data for you on this topic.
 
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the monk said:
What is your definition of a recce gun? The traditional Naval Special Warfare side of the house answer is a 16" accurate stainless barrel (MOA) that is scoped. That was from mid-GWOT and has since morphed into today's SPR.

Under that definition, the barrel needs to be accurate but can also take a beating if you need to partake in a large quantity of fire, which means they are not cheap. @RUTGERS95 is correct about Centurion Arms. They closest thing we have to those OG barrels - https://centurionarms.com/recce-barrel/.

Other honorable mentions would be Noveske (Johnny worked on some of these pre-death) 16" Recon - https://noveske.com/products/lo-pro-gas-block-barrel-5-56/?attribute_barrel-length=7.94" Diplomat&attribute_headspaced-bolt=NO
and V Seven (same lineage) Stainless Match - https://www.vsevenweaponsystems.com/5-56-223-barrels/v7-stainless-match-barrel-16

I personally went with the V Seven and its a laser.

@Docsherm may have some promising data for you on this topic.
Click to expand...


I have 9 Noveske Barrels. Some are directly from Johnny and some are from this year. There is no difference in quality or accuracy.

There may be more accurate AR barrels out there, but they are for matches and not combat. Here is an example that I use. Take any SS barrel and do two mag dumps (60 rounds) then test your accuracy. Because in combat you may need to shoot more then just slow single fire.
 
You can get the lilja seal recce etc barrels here but I don't think OP is that picky (or that spendy):

riflebarrels.com

.223-8 M4 Threaded - Lilja

These barrels are a true match-grade barrel, we only have one grade for all of our barrels, our best. All of these barrels are made from 1″ diameter 416 alloy rifle-barrel-quality stainless steel. Every barrel is drilled, reamed and rifled in our shop followed by a stress relieving heat...
riflebarrels.com riflebarrels.com
 
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Docsherm said:
I have 9 Noveske Barrels. Some are directly from Johnny and some are from this year. There is no difference in quality or accuracy.

There may be more accurate AR barrels out there, but they are for matches and not combat. Here is an example that I use. Take any SS barrel and do two mag dumps (60 rounds) then test your accuracy. Because in combat you may need to shoot more then just slow single fire.
Click to expand...
There's no real doubt that a chrome lined barrel is preferred for a real level of sustained fire, so I'm assuming that you are referring to that.

Can you confirm that FN is making the chrome lined barrels currently or not? If not, do you know who is?

MM
 
MontanaMan said:
There's no real doubt that a chrome lined barrel is preferred for a real level of sustained fire, so I'm assuming that you are reoffering to that.

Do you know who is making Noveske's SS barrels today & why they are pretty muchnow & have been unobtainium in 16 or 18"?

Can you confirm that FN is making the chrome lined barrels currently or not?

MM
Click to expand...


I am refering to the Stainless Steel ones. I have no issues getting the SS ones from Noveske. I have one in the mail rigjt now.

FN does make their CHF ones. They just have a much higher quality requirements then many other companies that have FN make them.
 
Docsherm said:
I am refering to the Stainless Steel ones. I have no issues getting the SS ones from Noveske. I have one in the mail rigjt now.

FN does make their CHF ones. They just have a much higher quality requirements then many other companies that have FN make them.
Click to expand...
Are their SS still PacNor?

Where did you source the barrel from?

MM
 
Docsherm said:
As far as I know, PaNor is producing the blanks. I order direct from Noveske's website.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I would like to try one of their current barrels; but...............I've see no recent data on performance, didn't know who is making the blanks/barrels/chambering & haven't seen any readily available. Their website shows no stock & no BO time either.

And I've I good service & performance from Craddock on Rock Creek blanks.

MM
 
BCP said:
I thought Noveske stainless was pac nor and the chrome lined was FN. Larue was lothar walther for awhile now I have no idea where his blanks are from.
Click to expand...
not following? your response has nothing to do with what I said nor did I intimate origin of those makes
 
Docsherm said:
I have 9 Noveske Barrels. Some are directly from Johnny and some are from this year. There is no difference in quality or accuracy.

There may be more accurate AR barrels out there, but they are for matches and not combat. Here is an example that I use. Take any SS barrel and do two mag dumps (60 rounds) then test your accuracy. Because in combat you may need to shoot more then just slow single fire.
Click to expand...
you are the exception and not the rule as it's generally accepted that noveske barrels are not as accurate today as they were in the past. Mine certainly exhibited this which is why I stopped going that route in favor of the CA barrels
 
Docsherm said:
I have 9 Noveske Barrels. Some are directly from Johnny and some are from this year. There is no difference in quality or accuracy.

There may be more accurate AR barrels out there, but they are for matches and not combat. Here is an example that I use. Take any SS barrel and do two mag dumps (60 rounds) then test your accuracy. Because in combat you may need to shoot more then just slow single fire.
Click to expand...
I don’t understand this when there are so many mk12s and recon builds seeing actual combat with stainless barrels.

They seemed to specifically chose it when it mattered for combat?
 
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RUTGERS95 said:
you are the exception and not the rule as it's generally accepted that noveske barrels are not as accurate today as they were in the past. Mine certainly exhibited this which is why I stopped going that route in favor of the CA barrels
Click to expand...

I have not seen any difference. The Noveske barrels that my friends have (6 more) also have no difference then what they were when Johnny was still with us. I chalk most of it up to internet BS, like how BCM is a great product. Most of the people that say there is a difference also say that the price is too high..... the "just as good crowd".

I have still not found a SS barrel that is as accurate that has the same longevity. That is the key.
 
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DangerRanger said:
I don’t understand this when there are so many mk12s and recon builds seeing actual combat with stainless barrels.

They seemed to specifically chose it when it mattered for combat?
Click to expand...
Mostly because they were re-barreled all of the time. The units that use them have the ability to do this.
 
RUTGERS95 said:
you are the exception and not the rule as it's generally accepted that noveske barrels are not as accurate today as they were in the past. Mine certainly exhibited this which is why I stopped going that route in favor of the CA barrels
Click to expand...
I think there was a time after Johnny passed when this was the case. All the stainless barrels I have seen from them as of the last year or two have been excellent.
 
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Docsherm said:
I have 9 Noveske Barrels. Some are directly from Johnny and some are from this year. There is no difference in quality or accuracy.

There may be more accurate AR barrels out there, but they are for matches and not combat. Here is an example that I use. Take any SS barrel and do two mag dumps (60 rounds) then test your accuracy. Because in combat you may need to shoot more than just slow single fire.
Click to expand...
There is so much more that goes into this but Chrome lining only offers a greater life expectancy and a barrels profile will dictate how much that barrel opens up.

Also, all barrels open up when they get hot. the barrels profile will dictate how much.
 
Never tried but have heard good things about Black River Tactical barrels.

The other factor you might want to consider is gas system length and gas port size if you plan to ever shoot suppressed with this barrel. BRT uses a nice EXT gas system and small (0.073") gas port size, Proof has intermediate gas system but "bigger" gas port size (0.093"), and Centurion uses a mid length system but a 0.076" gas port size. Something to consider.
 
The original RECCE barrels were made by Lilja. So, if you’re looking for authenticity, that’s the place to go.

John Noveske’s 16” stainless steel RECON barrel was also an excellent choice for the RECCE category.



noveske_recon_003-2732843.jpg




Noveske’s original RECON barrel has the Noveske Match Mod 0 chamber. This chamber “was developed to fire MK262 Mod 1 on AUTO in hot environments" while also being capable of producing better accuracy/precision than a 5.56mm NATO chamber. The barrel has polygonal rifling with a 1:7” twist and the barrel stamp reads:

Noveske 5.56 NMm0 7P



noveske_recon_barrel_stamp_002-2732845.jpg




Noveske Gen 1 polygonal rifling . . .



polygonal_rifling_side_by_side_23-2732853.jpg




Noveske Gen 2 polygonal rifling . . .



noveske_polygonal_rifling_01-2732850.jpg






noveskescalenogasblocksm5-2732879.jpg






The Noveske RECON barrel utilizes a mid-length gas system. The gas block on the original barrel is fastened with a set-screw and a taper pin. The RECON barrel has a medium contour and the stripped barrel has a weight of 2 pounds, 1.6 ounces. The barrel has a functional and aesthetically pleasing bead-blasted finish.



noveske_recong_barrel_with_gas_system-2732846.jpg




I mated my Noveske RECON build with a Schmidt & Bender Short Dot LE low-power, variable optic. With the optic set to 4X magnification, the Noveske RECON barrel turned in a 10-shot group at 100 yards that had an extreme spread of 0.78” using match-grade hand-loads topped with the Sierra 55 grain BlitzKing.



schmidt_bender_short_dot_le_001-2732849.jpg




noveske_16_inch_recon_and_recce_uppers_0-2732841.jpg




noveske_recon_10_shot_group_at_100_yards-2732844.jpg






….
 
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I have 1 White Oak , 2 Douglas , 1 Rainier, and 3 Ballistic Advantage Premium ops contour in 223 wylde . The BA barrel has been more accurate and consistent than all my other higher end barrels. I can not recommend the BA black series ,I've only read negative comments about them . The Premium series stainless is where it's at for me and a fraction of the cost aswell. In 16" and 18" .
 
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Surprised no one has mentioned JP enterprises. They make excellent barrels. Comes with their matched enhanced bolt, they aren’t super heavy and their cryo treatment does seem to extend barrel life which is a nice addition. Their 16” midlength is what I’d go with. Pretty much everyone running them say they are lasers.
 
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steve101610 said:
I dont know what your price range is but if you have the money I would look at the craddock precision signature 16.25” 223 wylde. I think They are around $550 but it’s a bartlein gain twist blank chambered by craddock so you know it will be awesome
Click to expand...

Do these barrels have a 6-8 month lead time like their custom barrels?
 
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This thread has helped me a lot. Many great options out there.

.223 SHTF Rifle build I’m working on, LPVO

what barrel? (prices include bolt) my thoughts so far:

•Noveske 13.7 Infidel ($500)
•Craddock Signature 14.7 Bartlein ($650)
•V Seven 14.5 Match ($600)
 
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