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Range Report Barrel temp????

natesguns

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 3, 2008
111
0
Missouri
Just wanted opinions on how hot is to hot. I'm a little over protective especially on larger caliber guns. I usually shoot a group 3 to 5 shots and stop for 5 or 10 min to let the barrel cool. I've never actually been told to do this I just do. So anyone know?

Thanks
Natesguns.
 
If you can't hold the barrel in your hand for about 3 seconds then its not a bad idea to start thinking about letting it cool down. Going to be a million different answers and theories but that's the rule of thumb I use when casually shooting. In a comp, stop when the stage is done no matter how many shots have been taken.
 
Three different ways of looking at this. A barrel can be ruined as in fully auto machine guns with continuous firing. During matches, 20 round strings are customary off and on all day without issue, but these are typically heavy match weight barrels. Thirdly, if you have a pencil thin mountain type hunting barrel, 2-3 shots is all you are going to get and your groups are going to string on you. I had a thin .270 once and after 3 shots i just put it away, it was over until it completely cooled. It depends on the weapon and intended purpose. but, yes, they can get too hot.
 
Tag for later.

I'm interested in everyones opinion also.

When I shoot a ocw or something along those lines I wait 2 minutes in between shots. Even at this pace around 15 rounds and the barrel seems hot to me. And 2 minutes between shots seems to last an eternity. Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill?

260 rem
Heavy bull barrel
 
Ammo Temp is more critical then barrel temp.

Go to a auto parts store and get one of those laser thermometers. Measure the temps of the barrel as you shoot. You'll see it takes no time to get the barrel to 500 degrees. That's not really a problem IF the ammo is at the outside temps.

Its been said that for ever 10-15 degrees change in temp, you impact changes 1 MOA. So if the barrel gets to 500 degrees, what does that do?

To find out. Load the magazine and chamber around in a hot barrel. Let the round set in the chamber a few seconds as if you were checking for condition changes or looking for another target. Then pull the round out. With the laser thermometer measure the temp of the round.

Do the same thing but chamber the round, then pull it out just as the bolt closes. Measure it and compare the temps. You'd be surprised.

Do the same thing only instead of pulling the bullet out, shoot it. Compare the groups where you let the round set in the chamber a couple seconds with the group you get where you chamber the instant before you fire. Big difference.

Take the theory, that for every 10-15 degrees change in temp you get a 1 MOA change in impact. Compare that with the numbers you got in the above test. You'll see the temps are all over the place but you don't know how to adjust for the different temps because you don't know what they will be a head of time.

Another simple test. Chamber and fire the instant the bolt closes. This time, lay half your ammo in the sun, lay the other half in the shade and let it set there a minute or two before you chamber it. Compare the temps of the ammo in the shade with that in the sun. Compare your groups.

As to the barrel itself, as long as it is able to flop around (like a water hose) and not contact anything, it really doesn't matter (to a point).

A good example is I have two Winchester Mode 70 Featherweight Rifles. One is a post 64, one is the new FN Model 70. With the post '64 I can only get about 5-7 rounds before it starts to walk. With the FN model 70 I can shoot 10-20 without a problem, its way too hot to hang onto, but it doesn't walk. The difference is FN free floated their barrels on the FN Model 70 Featherwights.

You can learn a lot playing with one of those laser thermometers.
 
Kraig,

I can't agree completely with the 1 MOA per 15 degree comment, simply because that's more dependent on the stresses in the barrel itself. If there are serious stresses, they'll manifest themselves once it starts heating up. But they'll react differently, and some are definitely worse about this than others.

Aside from that, definitely agree about ammo temp, and some powders are noticeably worse than others. Barrel temp issues are greatly exaggerated by most shooters, who've rarely (if ever) continued to shoot once a barrel gets hot. Long (20+) strings of fire in Long Range matches (where it'll show up the worst), simply aren't that much of an issue, and I can assure everyone that those barrels are usually plenty hot by the time we fire the final rounds. Ever make the mistake of touching a barrel after coming out of position in a Rattle Battle string? For a swing shooter, that usually means 35-36 rounds, fired in less than 50 seconds. Last rounds shouldn't show much of a shift in POI over the first, and we get ready to do it all over again just as soon as we hit the 500 yard line a minute or two later. I think most shooters worry far, far too much about this, without ever having really put one of the guns in question through the wringer to find out the facts.
 
"Maybe I need to put my gun through the ringer then. "

I figure I was worrying too much but I guess thats what happens when you spend more time reading then shooting.
 
I like where this thread is headed. Very good info here. I was originally thinking along the lines of permanent damage to a barrel caused by rapid fire. I never have shot a rifle of mine to the point I thought it was that hot but I guess it's possible. As far as barrel type and design I did have a mini 14 that was worthless after 15 shots. It was outstanding to watch the bullets start walking off the paper. I'm defiantly going to purchase a laser thermometer and play around with it. I'm running a fluted barrel on my 338 and it gets warm quick. My unproven theory I'm trying to prove or disprove is, I think I get more constant groups trying to keep my temp down or let's say consistent. Take a shot. Wait a minute take a shot and so on. I single feed due to length so my ammo temps stay constant as well (stay in the box out of the sun). Just something I thought was worth discussion.



Keep it coming
 
i shot 2-3 five groups then waint 10 min shoot same way.ive been doing this for a while now so far no prob..we shoot compt here 20rds per stage from fast shooting to slow shooting.so even 2o rnds then let it coll off is ok with me..ive seen a lot off people being sensitive when it comes to barrel temp..i think barrel can handle more heat than were expecting
 
Unless really really on a budget or are having some rare piece which has more sentimental/collecting value and wanting to leave the same system to grand kids i'd say watching barrel temp is like watching grass grow. Might be fun for some but not really beneficial or very productive. I've shot my .308 Tikka to the point of melting old factory stock at the point of contact and now at 5500 round count it still shoots great in the .4MOA. Considering new barrel here is @400€+work that equates down to ~0.1€/shot which is perhaps 15% of all costs i'd imagine its even lower for US prices. Simply not worth wasting time on it.
 
I am with the others, i am shooting a 30" bull criterion in 308. It doesn't walk at all after shooting 20-25 rounds in 15 mins, and the barrel is blazing hot due to hot ftr loads.
As long as i am not permanently damaging the barrel (it is an exceptionally accurate barrel) or significantly increasing copper fouling, i am fine with it. That is what i am looking for an answer to.
I check my seating depth often with a cut case and soft seated round. So far it's right where it was when i got the barrel, 1200 rounds ago


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The only thing that holds me back from shooting more when my barrel gets hot, is not being able to see too good through the mirage. I don't worry too much about the temp damage wise
 
The only thing that holds me back from shooting more when my barrel gets hot, is not being able to see too good through the mirage.

That's why God made barrel bans.
 
Oh my! If you're that concerned about barrel temp then never go prairie dog or ground squirrel hunting. I take three rifles prairie dog hunting so I can swap them out as they get super hot. I shoot .243 Winchester and I shoot it fast (shots fired and velocity)!

As these rifles heat up I/we still have no issues hitting the dogs out to 200 yds and beyond. I would assume that more rds are fired on a dog town then most people will fire in a couple months.

I average about 2500 rds per barrel before I send it off for a setback or rebarrel (depending how many times it has been set back). Now with that 2500 rds only about 1200-1600 would be 'match grade' accuracy with the rest being prairie dog accuracy.

So I wouldn't worry to much about barrel temp unless you are shooting like 500 rds (random number) per minute or more.
 
I do make a habit of reaching up and touching the barrel from time to time after a firing string just to make a mental note of how hot the barrel is or is not getting.
I have never believed I was doing any harm to my rifles when the barrel gets blistering hot...they can handle it.
 
Thanks for all the opinions. Just one of those things I guess I was taught as a young kid shooting. Or just picked up. As stated above I never thought I was doing damage just a habit I got into.
 
Nate,

you damage your barrel every time you pull the trigger. That's kinda the point. They're threaded on one end, and noting more than a piece of perishable tooling that's temporarily attached to your receiver. They wear out, and you replace them, simple as that. The option to get around that is simply not to use them. You use it, you damage it, and eventually it wears out.

There are some things that will be harder on barrels than others. Heavy bullets are a big one, and will wash out the throat a lot faster than lighter bullets will. Excessively high pressure loads are another. Most modern powders aren't too bad about temperature, but in the old days, very high nitroglycerine content in some powders positively ate barrels for breakfast. When the M1903 Springfield was adopted, it was originally loaded with a 220 grain FMJ-RN, loaded with Hi-Vel #2. This combination (heavy bullet, high nitro content) left those barrels shot out in about 800 rounds. You don't see that today, with a well balanced cartridge and sensible loads. Rapid fire isn't the boogeyman that most shooters today make it out to be. As I mentioned, in Infantry Trophy matches, we fire (on average) 30-40 rounds in about 50 seconds, at a couple of yard lines. The barrels last just fine, and accuracy isn't an issue. I've seen the gunners at Lake City doing M118LR testing, and those guys generally go through a ten round string in a matter of seconds. Literally sounds like a machinegun. They're firing a return to battery rest, an virtually pouring the rounds into the mag as they cycle the bolt. They generally repeat this process for about three groups before they switch out, and the barrels are way too hot to touch. They still shoot, and they get a respectable service life out of their barrels. Not suggesting anyone abuse their barrels, but don't be afraid to use them, either. After all, that's why we have them.
 
For a little context, every time you fire the rifle the inner surface of the bore gets hot enough to melt. Literally. That's partly what causes barrel erosion. Does it matter if it was 75 degrees or 250 before you fire? A little, but not much.