Night Vision basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

[AXEMAN]

i know it may be too low dollar for this crowd, but has anyone tried any inexpensive stuff? below $300? yukon or bushnell units are all +/- $200. i sometimes want to just see whats got the dogs and animals all riled up at night in my area. i really dont want to spend a bunch on it since its limited useage. i saw some russian stuff at the gunshow that accepts screw on camera lenses that was pretty neat, but i dont know anything about them. thanks

 

[harlikwin]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

Since this question gets asked alot, I put together a cheap NV guide over at:

http://wolverinetechnologiesllc.com/Nigh...on-buying-guide

In the sub 500 range there are some triple cascade gen1 systems. they do have some drawbacks however which I go into in the guide.

The cheapest Gen2 mono for sale is about 800 with a used tube, also in the guide. And if you feel adventurous there is ebay.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

no one admits to owning a yukon or bushnell?

 

[Fx1]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

the only half decent monos are digital at that price. gen 1 sux really bad.

if u got decent IR illuminator then you can use digital such as Yukon Ranger or Ranger Pro.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harlikwin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since this question gets asked alot, I put together a cheap NV guide over at:

http://wolverinetechnologiesllc.com/Nigh...on-buying-guide

In the sub 500 range there are some triple cascade gen1 systems. they do have some drawbacks however which I go into in the guide.

The cheapest Gen2 mono for sale is about 800 with a used tube, also in the guide. And if you feel adventurous there is ebay. </div></div>

Why don't you just post it here to assist folks instead of pimping your MOD area on another site?

Ebay can be VERY risky unless your pretty savvy in NV. Good buys can be found there, but folks should do their research first to insure you're really getting what you paid for.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

well i was just using that as an example. its a good reference to see whats available in the retail market. im not looking to spend a bunch on this, its not a life saver or going into combat. just casual civilian use for seeing whats out there. i was just hoping someone may have used some of the lower dollar stuff like the bushnell products or similar. or would admit to it, lol

 

[OmegaMan]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

I think we all have used the cheap stuff at some time or another. Fact is the gen 1 gear just does not have enough gain to be very useful. I think the cheap digital units are better then gen 1 if your just looking for a toy.

I agree with Vic about eBay. Many good deals can be found and I find them all the time. If you are not experienced you could very well get burned. Tubes don't come with a hour meter or a history of how they were used.

Even with knowing what I am doing I still get burned on occasion.If you can afford the risk good deals and bad ones are plentiful on the auction sites. Separating the two is the tricky part.

If you are just looking for a toy and realize it is not very good or versatile. Also understand it is in no way suited for any kind of serious use. I have used the Yukon Digital Ranger with a good IR illuminator (TNVC Torch). It worked OK inside 100 meters for spotting things.

Not great night vision but useful for just looking around. I would never stake my life on it and digital has many drawbacks. Frame rate and dealing with motion being the most troublesome.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

Omegaman (like that user name btw, GREAT MOVIE, old and new).

I hope digital keeps progressing. When I did that in depth review of Supervision several years back, I REALLY wanted this technology to work for alternative Gen 1 work. The frame rate as Omegaman spoke of was and is the REAL killer for most Digi systems.

AXEMAN, Not afraid to admit it.

I've used a Bushnell many of times early on to really see what is seen and not seen, I had to. Many times my friends would come over so all of us could examine these devices for what they really are.

Cheap NV is just that, cheap and most come away with such a bad taste in their mouth with most Gen 1 systems. Some may have spent upwards of a thousand clams on a "cheap" Gen 1 and are so discouraged they think other Generations do not do any better. We've seen this over the years with many new folks who say "is this it?"...And that is a real shame when this happens.

We always say to most to at least save for a Gen 2 system at the very least. A D-300 is a good place to start for decent performance in the 1400-1600 range.

Bottom line is to REALLY research your choices of what your own requirements may be. If sitting by the campfire and looking short distances with very low resolution for the "cool factor", maybe that cheap Gen 1 can be for you. But for any more serious work, folks will really have to look into a Gen 2 at the minimum.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

thanks guys. like i said in this case, i have a neighbor that drives a truck and is away from home during the week. his trees are covering the lights and his back yard is dark. often the dogs get agitated and i see them staring that was. could be coon, possum or cat. may be a person. its not for a weapon sight or for shooting and for sure not a life saving situation. just looking for the lesser of evils as it were. its hard to judge a bushnell in a walmart when they wont turn out the lights, lol. but thats what the liberal return policy is for i guess

myself, i cant see spending $1000 or more on something for this application. and i really dont know what i would do with a good gen 2 anyway. i have never been in a situation yet that i have needed night vision. but thanks guys, i appreciate it.

you know i hear you talk about tubes. i wont say i know exactly all about it, but it sounds like you buy components and make stuff yourselves? the tube being the main part of the device im guessing. ill look thru that other thread on DIY stuff to see what you make. sounds neat

 

[harlikwin]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

Axman,

For your application, you would likely be fine with gen1 sub $100 viewer and a good IR illuminator. If you can look through the bushnell (with the daylight cover on) at whatever store, just make sure the magnification, and tube distortion are fit with your needs.

Also If you read through the first part of my guide you can certainly use the Gen1TC units for observation, this was actually their primary role throughout various wars.

And one key distinction I always make that there really are 2 categories of Gen1, the commercial which largely sucks and requires the use of illuminators, and the old military which largely works ok without illuminators if its good shape.

Gen1 systems achieve light amplification through kinetic means (i.e. by accelerating electrons and smashing them into a phosphor screen.) So a single tube system (i.e. the vast majority of commercial systems) have low light gain, while the triple staged gen1 (1960's tech) actually work much better since there are 3 tubes to multiply the signal.


As for building your own stuff, CJ7hawk has his website where he has built a variety of viewers including one using a gen1 triple cascade tube.

http://aunv.blackice.com.au/cgi-bin/nightvision/forum?index=projects&story=cascade

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

thanks for the info. ill keep an eye out and start reading. the guys here at the gunshows are pretty far removed from reality. the stuff they sell isnt special, but its priced that way. everything they have on the tables can be bought cheaper anywhere. there are guys there selling ammo that is the same brand as walmart but for $5-$10 more. i guess in their world they dont research much

 

[harlikwin]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

Axman, the last place I would buy NV gear would be at the gunshow. Usually what little I've seen at the ones near me is overpriced by 2-3x for ancient pvs-2's or soviet 1pn34s.

 

[OmegaMan]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

Axeman, Harlikwin brings up some good points. Cj7Hawks do it yourself build using a cascade tube is a good project. Biggest issue with this project is finding a good tube with decent life left in it.

Keep in mind these tubes are very old but this project can be done on the cheap and they work pretty well for just spotting things. I really do recommend a digital unit over the cheap Gen 1 commercial units. They both will need a good IR light source. I think the low cost digital units will outperform cheap Gen 1 units using a intensifier tube.

None work great mind you but for your application should do the trick. Good luck whatever route you choose.

I realize some just can't justify lots of money when your only need is home use for spotting things. Just keep in mind that Gen 2 or 3 systems FAR outperform these cheaper alternatives. Once you look through a good system you will be amazed at the difference.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

harlikwin, i noticed that too. i saw stuff that sportsmans guide and cheaper than dirt sell for a lot more. ive noticed that the gunshows operate in a bubble. there are guys there selling ammo for way more than i can get it at walmart. they sell alot too. i know dealers that are paying more wholesale than walmart charges retail. they didnt know until i told them

 

[damit]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

OK, I will be one that admits I have an ATN mono, gen one. I use it for the same reason as AXE wants to. Its OK for ID'ing animals out to 50-75 yds, small animals and a bit further for larger like big dogs or deer. It has an IR illuminator built in and was around $200 a couple of years ago.

Flame on

Dave

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

arial flares - cheaper than NV and freaks out whatever the hell is spookin the dog.

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: basic entry level monocular, nothing fancy

Hmm,

As mentioned, you can make a cascade project within your budget which will let you see quite well...

But if it's commercial items, I'd go digital in the lower price range. Digital isn't much better than Gen1, but it is OK at ID'ing animals out to 100m. I've watched foxes approach through mine and it's fine for that kind of work.

It's not so good for FOV, but the contrast is good and it's built-in illuminator works well enough. It eats batteries though and you need to take them out when not in use.

Regards
David.