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Suppressors Batfe reorganized wait times changing?

TexasGunTrustLawyer

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With the eight month mark post 41f approaching comma and with the large drop off in submitted forms, I have been wondering if we will see a significant drop in the wait time for NFA form approvals. I suspect that the ATF wants to make sure that we don't get our stuff quickly so they will be pulling examiner's out of the NFA branch and shifting them to other duties as the backlog of forms decreases.


From my TexasGunTrust.com feed.

[video]http://www.guns.com/2017/04/13/atf-announces-nfa-branch-reorganization/[/video]

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives has split its National Firearms Act branch into a separate division in hopes of providing more oversight and efficiency.

The new NFA Division will consist of an Industry Processing Branch, focusing on processing forms from the private sector, and a Government Support Branch centered on law enforcement.

The IPB will see the regulatory body dedicate an entire branch to handling the processing of consumer-directed documents including Form 1 and Form 4 applications for the making and transfer of NFA items such as suppressors, and short-barreled rifles and shotguns.

Dillon McConnell, a public affairs specialist with the ATF, told Guns.com the agency has increased the number of Legal Instruments Examiners — specialists who process these forms — from nine in 2012 to 27 today to address “unprecedented” volumes of NFA applications. The new branch will also strive to leverage “technology enhancements” moving forward.

“In addition, contract staff augment the government staff in the areas of customer service, data entry, and application research,” McConnell said.

As illustrated by statistics maintained by the ATF, over the decade between 2004 -2014 the number of NFA forms processed ballooned sevenfold from 193,224 to 1,370,344. This has also led to increasingly long waits. According to information compiled by NFA Tracker, who survey Form 1 and Form 4 application processes, the average wait time from purchase to tax stamp received ranges between 180-270 days.

Suppressor industry advocates welcomed the news, but feel more can be done.

“Regardless of the reasons, the current wait times for NFA applications are inexcusable,” Knox Williams, president and executive director of the American Suppressor Association, told Guns.com. “The restructuring of the new NFA Division is a clear indicator to us that the ATF is doing the best it can to address the situation, but their hands are largely tied. We applaud them for their efforts, and will do everything in our power to assist and enhance their ability to more efficiently process forms.”

Williams contends one fast cure to the long waits is for legislative correction by removing suppressors from NFA regulation and treating them like regular firearms.

In an 11-page internal document penned by the ATF’s associate deputy director and chief operating officer Ronald B. Turk earlier this year, keeping suppressors chained to tax stamps and NFA forms was identified as a known bottleneck.

“Since silencers account for the vast majority of NFA applications, the most direct way to reduce processing times is to reduce the number of silencer applications,” Turk stated. “In light of the expanding demand and acceptance of silencers, however, that volume is unlikely to diminish unless they are removed from the NFA.”

Williams agrees. “At the end of the day though, it’s important to note that they are still working with an 83-year-old processing system that won’t be fully fixed until major reform like the Hearing Protection Act is passed,” he said.

Government Support Branch

The second arm of the newly separate NFA Division will be more centered on industry affairs such as processing Special Occupation Tax applications for those importing, manufacturing or dealing in NFA items. The group will also handle the paperwork associated with NFA items used by law-enforcement and government entities such as Form 10s and 479.33 exemptions as well as process Freedom of Information Act requests for the division.

Larry Keane, the National Shooting Sports Foundation’s senior vice president and general counsel, told Guns.com he hopes the move leads to a better experience for all involved. “We hope it will help to enhance and further streamline ATF’s customer service to industry,” he said

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I've heard some rumors about this but have yet to date read any details on this. I'm still not convinced at this point the wait times will be going up but with the government any thing is possible. It still blows my mind that we have to send in paperwork, for a background check on our trust then once it passes have a 4473 done on us at the dealers when we go to pick the darn thing up. They want to speed things up just keep the $200 tax and get rid of the trust background check. It's not as if anything changes, we are still doing a background check on us anyway, just the same as before. Can't exactly make an argument its to prevent crime, there are no crimes committed with suppressors so wtf?

Anyone have any idea how many suppressors have been submitted since 41f went into effect?
 
I'd bet an industry association could estimate the number of form 4s submitted between 07/2017 and present and between 11/2017 and present, but it's definitely down dramatically year over year. As a datapoint for the ultra 9 i just bought: It was ordered mid-May of 2017, then the initial form 3 (TBAC to Silencershop) took just over a month (8/30/17 to 10/3/2107), not all that different from present times. The can then sat in inventory for five months before I bought it. It's a higher-end (if very popular) option, but that doesn't reflect a lot of inventory turnover during that time.

As far as the fact that no crimes are committed with NFA items....that only plays into the hand of those who would prefer a national registry of all firearms rather than the opposite. It's a long-term study on the effect such a registry would have, or at least that is how it will be spun given the right climate for that discussion.
 
Can't exactly make an argument its to prevent crime, there are no crimes committed with suppressors so wtf?

I agree with you, however, that's the exact argument opponents will use to fight HPA. They will say that there are no suppressors used in crime BECAUSE of all the regulation and long waits. It's total BS, but it will be a fight for sure.
 
I agree with you, however, that's the exact argument opponents will use to fight HPA. They will say that there are no suppressors used in crime BECAUSE of all the regulation and long waits. It's total BS, but it will be a fight for sure.

I get that and am aware of that counterpoint but its a morons point at best, not directed at you. If a item is registered it doesn't do shit to prevent crime, all it will do at the very best is help solve crime and that's if we're lucky. Canada, Australia and even the ATF itself has proven that with their white paper release. Another problem with their argument is considering the sheer numbers of cans in private use you'd think at least 1 has been used in a crime not associated with organized crime, but nope.
 
I get that and am aware of that counterpoint but its a morons point at best, not directed at you. If a item is registered it doesn't do shit to prevent crime, all it will do at the very best is help solve crime and that's if we're lucky. Canada, Australia and even the ATF itself has proven that with their white paper release. Another problem with their argument is considering the sheer numbers of cans in private use you'd think at least 1 has been used in a crime not associated with organized crime, but nope.

I'm with you. I hope that someday, before I die, there is some common sense brought to firearms law in this country. I have my doubts, since the majority of our legislators are morons and are only interested in "self interest", but I do have hope. I think removing suppressors from NFA would be a good start. I'll keep my fingers crossed, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
 
I really hope they can get wait times down for sure but not hopeful.

The beast is nfa registry is the $200 tax stamp. Agencies I imagine don't want to lose revenue, I could be wrong but that's how I see it. The easy offset is allow form 1 and 4 machine guns of current years allowed and they will have so many $200 tax stamps they will not even remember what a suppressor tax stamp was. Problem is I dont think they think like that. With that said if the hpa had any hope of passing, they will have to remove the refund of the tax stamps from preciously processed and processing forms.

Of course I don't think anything in the nfa list should be nfa except maybe DD but even that's a fine line.
 
1,370,344 X 200.00 dollars.......274,068,800.00 in revenue just from form 1's and 4's. If I'm reading this right and my math is right that is a lot of our money we are paying to the Gov. to let us have a right that we have a right to. So the HPA isn't going to pass this year. Hopefully next year we have the correct amount of people in the Senate to get our 60 votes. I have 3 cans waiting that I just put in and I'm hoping to see at least one of them back by Dec. but I'm not holding my breath.
 
I had the same theory thought several weeks ago. Post all the pre 41F filings being completed you would have to assume a drop in the wait time by a significant factor. I wish a large dealer could quantify, but I wouldn't be surprised if filings dropped off 75% after 41F was enacted. Maybe wait times will land back near 4 months. Won't hold my breath.
 
That being said, my sales are better than 2015. .

Is the bulk of those sales pre-41f? Other dealers I've talked to stated they were selling cans like Twinkies at fat camp prior to July 13 then dropped off and couldn't sell them if they gave them away. Did you experience the same thing and if so that could be why you had better sales than the year previous.
 
Yeah, he's saying the his sales now in the slump are better than where he was at two years ago. One year ago was the boom in sales. The anomaly year aside he is still trending upward in business.
 
My post 41f sales are greatly slumped as well. But the positive side of that, is tje fact that I've got tons of cans in stock. I'm willing to bet the farm that wait times will be at least half, once the remainder of the pre 41f forms clear out. Which is soon. I'm already getting form 4 approvals from the first week on July.

People purchasing today are in for greatly reduced wait times.
 
Is the bulk of those sales pre-41f? Other dealers I've talked to stated they were selling cans like Twinkies at fat camp prior to July 13 then dropped off and couldn't sell them if they gave them away. Did you experience the same thing and if so that could be why you had better sales than the year previous.

As spife said, I don't count 2016 at all since we were pretty much sold out most of the time. We did experience the same drop off in sales, but since 41F had a specific date, we planned for it and weren't holding a lot of inventory after 41F. As a side note, I'm already getting post 41F form 4s back now.
 
My post 41f sales are greatly slumped as well. But the positive side of that, is tje fact that I've got tons of cans in stock. I'm willing to bet the farm that wait times will be at least half, once the remainder of the pre 41f forms clear out. Which is soon. I'm already getting form 4 approvals from the first week on July.

People purchasing today are in for greatly reduced wait times.

Hopefully my July 3 is soon then.
 
As spife said, I don't count 2016 at all since we were pretty much sold out most of the time. We did experience the same drop off in sales, but since 41F had a specific date, we planned for it and weren't holding a lot of inventory after 41F. As a side note, I'm already getting post 41F form 4s back now.

What date are you getting back?
 
Just bought a can on Friday. I'll let you guys know how it goes. My dealer said I was one of 30 cans bought in the last 4 months, and they expect wait times to really decrease.
 
Just bought a can on Friday. I'll let you guys know how it goes. My dealer said I was one of 30 cans bought in the last 4 months, and they expect wait times to really decrease.

My dealer is small but he said he's only done 3 cans that he can remember since the new rules went into effect which is way down from pre-41f.
 
I called the NFA branch yesterday (06/12/17), I was told they are 11 months behind (working on July 2016).
She said she expected things to move along faster once that backlog (41f) has been cleared.
So, right now, we are looking at 11 month waits, which is bullshit, however, taking into account you have a limited number of agents working 1.5 million forms, i can't find fault with them.