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Night Vision Battle of the Binos! Which is best, and why?

TheHorta

TheHorta

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    • Jan 17, 2014
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    NO AL
    This is an “All Skate” thread. Feel free to chime in with your thoughts and feelings.

    I have seven (7) different sets of binos — L3 2376 PVS-31A (x2), L3 WP DTNVG, L3 WP DTNVS with RPO Glass, L3 WP BNVD-UL SG, L3 WP RNVG, L3 2376 1531, and a set of GP ANVIS-6.

    Which is best, and why? If you have cash to burn, which one is your best option? (Hint: it’s NOT the PVS-31A).

    More to come. 😁

    But for now, Happy Thanksgiving to y’all! It’s turkey time!

    9AFA45D0-797A-4C68-BBB5-632D147D4F0A.jpeg
     
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    MOAR TUBES. Pano goggles for life.

    I really like that DTNVS housing, though. It’s the golden age of good goggles.
     
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    Curious what your recommendation is. Have limited experience with 31s, otherwise have run a 14 for the past 7 years but have set aside money to upgrade to binos this year. Leaning towards DTNVGs so I can flip up one side when scanning with thermal.
     
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    @smcfarland same. Running dual 14’s for now

    ETA: dual 14’s weren’t included for a reason. Only benefit is modularity. Heavy but nice to swap a 14 for a thermal on a bridge. Or give a 14 to a buddy to start their addiction to NV. Good gateway drug
     
    Last edited:
    smcfarland said:
    Curious what your recommendation is. Have limited experience with 31s, otherwise have run a 14 for the past 7 years but have set aside money to upgrade to binos this year. Leaning towards DTNVGs so I can flip up one side when scanning with thermal.
    Click to expand...

    Long story short, DTNVS with RPO (assuming good / similar tubes) crushes all others — including 31A’s. The 31’s are no longer “Gucci” and have been out for the better part of a decade. Lack of diopters and advanced features, along with OK-but-not-great optics puts it behind the DTNVS. If you’re deploying from subs, then the 31’s might be worth it. Otherwise, they’re a waste and just don’t perform as well.
     
    Weight on DTNVS with RPO? Where to buy the RPO? Haven’t seen a place to get that. Cost?

    Also, CR123 or battery pack?
     
    rlsmith1 said:
    @smcfarland same. Running dual 14’s for now

    ETA: dual 14’s weren’t included for a reason. Only benefit is modularity.
    Click to expand...
    Well there are a lot more benefits to bridged 14's than just modularity IMHO.

    1. Redundancy. One pod goes down on bridged 14s, the chances of the other going down at the same time are pretty much zero. This has real world benefits in a hostile situation. Can't say that about dedicated Binos. When they go down, they usually both go down at same time.

    2. Independent gain adjustment on each tube. That has some serious real world benefits that most people with dedicated Binos do not even have the ability to assess or understand. Point being it is really beneficial to have one pod turned way down compared to the other such that you preserve your night vision in one eye to monitor ambient light and if running a COTI it also has other benefits.

    3. So you face plant or break and ruin one side completely. Don't have to send the entire unit off to be fixed. Simply roll another 14 in on the side the one got trashed on and you back up and running. Dedicated Bino's have to be sent off so you are 100% minus a system.

    4. Modularity with the ability to mount a thermal on the bridged system. Can't do that with a dedicated Bino system with the exception of running a COTI on one pod.

    5. 2 onboard illuminators. Again redundancy. Dedicated Binos do not have that ability. You loose an onboard IR illuminator on dedicated Binos you are down with that for a backup system to any other illuminators you might be using.

    6. 2 independent power supply systems and batteries that run each pod. Again redundancy. When a battery or external power system has a failure on dedicated Binos, well you SOL on seeing in the dark.

    IMHO, a correctly bridged set of 14's offer quite a bit of superiority over dedicated Bino's with the exception of being somewhat heavier. I will take that penalty, all night long.
     
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    I ran bridged L3 WP binos for 2 years. They worked fine, but I won’t be going back. ;)
     
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    rlsmith1 said:
    I’m also interested in:

    Nocturn Industries UANVB Katana

    And

    Lowlight Industries LLUL-21

    RPO glass with either of these would be interesting too
    Click to expand...

    Skip the katana

    Friends on off button is already going out and one of his bungee loops snapped in the first week.
     
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    Straight up binoculars for surface combat as well as being in vehicles/helos, ANVIS9.

    Possibility of indoor/CQB mission profile, PVS31 assuming I don't have to get anything repaired/replaced on my dime.
     
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    I have L3 WP RNVG's. The weight of the RNVG's kinda sucks, but I take comfort in knowing they can handle me eating shit on a fall or dropping off my helmet.

     
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    Lack of articulation is always a deal killer IMHO especially with the available choices out there today.

    With one exception. A sub $2,000 set of PVS 7 B/D with a Omni 7 tube is an excellent value and a good performer.
     
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    Ok, the next question is, where can you buy the DTNVS with RPO glass?
     
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    Anyone running coti or e-coti with their binos? Some type of thermal detection is such an advantage.

    Just rolling around with a NOX18 let’s me see deer at 500+ and detect cattle in open fields at over 1k. Just unfair. Smaller game is a little more tricky but still visible. I find myself bridging the 14 & NOX more than I do bridging 14’s and using the NOX as a handheld. Mostly because I haven’t figured out a good way to keep the NOX handy (maybe lanyard?)

    2 questions:

    1. DTNVS with coti / e-coti (sounds like the e-coti isn’t a crazy upgrade front that standard coti) or save the weight and use a handheld scanner?

    2. Battery pack or single battery? Seems like the pack is the way to go from a weight distribution standpoint but want to make sure
     
    rlsmith1 said:
    Anyone running coti or e-coti with their binos? Some type of thermal detection is such an advantage.

    Just rolling around with a NOX18 let’s me see deer at 500+ and detect cattle in open fields at over 1k. Just unfair. Smaller game is a little more tricky but still visible. I find myself bridging the 14 & NOX more than I do bridging 14’s and using the NOX as a handheld. Mostly because I haven’t figured out a good way to keep the NOX handy (maybe lanyard?)

    2 questions:

    1. DTNVS with coti / e-coti (sounds like the e-coti isn’t a crazy upgrade front that standard coti) or save the weight and use a handheld scanner?

    2. Battery pack or single battery? Seems like the pack is the way to go from a weight distribution standpoint but want to make sure
    Click to expand...
    I’d just stick with the NOX you have rather than strapping on a COTI of the various types. The DTs let you roll one up to scan.
     
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    UL BNVD Single gain. Rugged, full featured, lightweight for the "every ounce counts" types, long warranty, single AA battery.
     
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    The NOX vs COTI is definitely apples to oranges but the COTI is always on which is definitely an advantage over a scanner. PID isn't as important as detection. Can always PID with something else
     
    I went BNVD-SG w/Elbit SL WP and a Jerry-C. Works for me, as I started on .gov's dime with the original K-Pot and PVS-5's, LOL.
     
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    How far have you guys been able to detect <deer size game with the coti? I'm not worried out pid, got the 30 for that.
     
    @rlsmith1 I run the Pas 29 COTI a lot. I always run in outline. I also know how to set the gain correctly for a nights specific emissivity such that it pretty much only lights up a living critter.

    All that being said, my experience has been that in heavy brush, the COTI in Outline will typically pick up an animal deeper in the brush than my TWS (Flir Boson Cores). I believe it has to do with the algorithm settings in Outline combined with the proper gain settings discriminates to a higher degree.

    Now when I say "picks up" it is typically just a portion of Outline that will "pop" in deeper cover but it is a trustworthy enough signal that it gives me a very good "detection" that a living critter is in there that warrants further investigation.

    I personally value the Pas 29 COTI as a not to be without device on your NV for what that is worth.
     
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    @WhereNow&How would you mind sharing some of your COTI settings tips dependent on a particular nights emissivity as you said?

    I have read a tremendous amount about the COTI AGC(auto gain control function) and settings and am still having some trouble getting it to outline heat signatures consistently from night to night. Not trying to hijack the thread but any of your input would be greatly appreciated.
     
    Hoyter87 said:
    @WhereNow&How would you mind sharing some of your COTI settings tips dependent on a particular nights emissivity as you said?

    I have read a tremendous amount about the COTI AGC(auto gain control function) and settings and am still having some trouble getting it to outline heat signatures consistently from night to night. Not trying to hijack the thread but any of your input would be greatly appreciated.
    Click to expand...
    Adjust gain to where nothing lights up but live critters. Go into Auto Gain and run it down to no more than 2 points over gain.

    Problem most people have with the COTI is they got WAY TOO MUCH crap lighting up. Clutter, clutter, clutter.

    I don't want to see the outline of trees, buildings etc etc. Could care less about that. Tune it down so that 99% of the time you are looking at a regular NV scene to get around and then when an Outline or Partial Outline "pops" its heads up time.

    Running around with a COTI that is slinging a whole bunch of useless clutter in your view leads to complacency of the signals being received.
     
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    For hunting, I run the Skeet IRX bridged to a PVS14 with L3 UF WP high FOM tube. I can see everything living within eye sight and positively ID it. It is predator vision.



    For defensive work, I like my PVS31a with e-coti or now that I have it, my GPNVG18 with e-coti. Definitely improves situational awareness in quickly changing environs.

     
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    Dvlray6 said:
    For hunting, I run the Skeet IRX bridged to a PVS14 with L3 UF WP high FOM tube. I can see everything living within eye sight and positively ID it. It is predator vision.



    For defensive work, I like my PVS31a with e-coti or now that I have it, my GPNVG18 with e-coti. Definitely improves situational awareness in quickly changing environs.

    Click to expand...
    How well do the skeet and 14 'fuse'? And as far as moving around/navigation through woods/various terrain which of these setups do you find best?
     
    mpl2353 said:
    How well do the skeet and 14 'fuse'? And as far as moving around/navigation through woods/various terrain which of these setups do you find best?
    Click to expand...

    It is NOT true fusion. I find for me the best image dominates. When I am scanning the thermal dominates. When I am shooting or moving the I2 dominates. For me, it does not give me a headache and seems “seamless”. My brain cleans up the switching. I don’t use for defensive use because I don’t have same 3D awareness that I do with the duals or panos.
     
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    Took me probably 10 nights to get used to the nox/14 combo. I found exactly the same, best image dominates. Set your thermal brightness close to I2 gain and all is good. Once it clicked it was pretty cool. Definitely takes some thinking and determination to do
     
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    Was reading an article (TFB) that said the RPO glass has some interesting effects with WP tubes. Is he making a mountain out of an anthill or are there image effects that are noticeable compared to regular glass?

    I’m not too worried about the increased reflection off the front but maybe should be.

    Merry Christmas everyone
     
    rlsmith1 said:
    Was reading an article (TFB) that said the RPO glass has some interesting effects with WP tubes. Is he making a mountain out of an anthill or are there image effects that are noticeable compared to regular glass?

    I’m not too worried about the increased reflection off the front but maybe should be.

    Merry Christmas everyone
    Click to expand...
    I haven’t noticed anything, but I’d have to test under whatever specific conditions he used and look for it. Basically, it’s like someone telling you about something you never noticed before, which I think indicates it’s a nothingburger. The payoff of RPO is so much greater than any perceived negatives that any downside is trivial.

    It’s like owning a Ferrari and complaining about how bad its MPG rating is.
     
    Last edited:
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    That’s what I figured because it’s the first I’ve heard of it. I get some light spots when using sacrificial lenses if I’m looking towards a light source but it doesn’t degrade image and isn’t really distracting. Wondering if he had sacrificial lenses on doing the same thing
     
    Anyone aware of new binos coming to market since we are getting close to SHOT?

    Also, has anyone experienced tube flickering with the DTNVS housing? What causes it and is it a real issue?
     
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