fun to watch, agree or disagree, good gun porn
- Thread starter RUTGERS95
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he d
still impressive!
his rate of fire was slowest with HK and the KAC, fastest with the LMT
still impressive!
Great post!
The HK FTE malfunction was almost certainly due to a chamber cut with a worn reamer; possibly cut to .308 vs. 7.62x51 too.
Ask me how I know...
The HK FTE malfunction was almost certainly due to a chamber cut with a worn reamer; possibly cut to .308 vs. 7.62x51 too.
Ask me how I know...
Fun video,
For the most part agree, owning 3 out of 4 of those rifles.
Some observations that were interesting to me.
The HK's grouping were very impressive.
He mounted a high pressure can on the LMT and noted some failures as a result of over gassing.
He also did not did not mount that can on any of the other rifles. I think that his main area of concern with the LMT could of been mitigated with the appropriate can.
I have my bias's but all are really good rifles, just like with a lot of this stuff it really comes down to how you are going to use them.
I would rank them
1A. KAC, Most refined, but way overpriced in this current market.
1B LMT, little chunky but its the most flexible, i shot mine more than my KAC.
2. HK , Seems awesome, never shot one.
3. FN
For the most part agree, owning 3 out of 4 of those rifles.
Some observations that were interesting to me.
The HK's grouping were very impressive.
He mounted a high pressure can on the LMT and noted some failures as a result of over gassing.
He also did not did not mount that can on any of the other rifles. I think that his main area of concern with the LMT could of been mitigated with the appropriate can.
I have my bias's but all are really good rifles, just like with a lot of this stuff it really comes down to how you are going to use them.
I would rank them
1A. KAC, Most refined, but way overpriced in this current market.
1B LMT, little chunky but its the most flexible, i shot mine more than my KAC.
2. HK , Seems awesome, never shot one.
3. FN
KAC is ridiculously overpriced
I wish we had more videos like this from the various gun channels.
so my experience is opposite on the accuracy and recoil impulse. I own the LMTs, KAC and SCAR or should say I have owned all 3. My LMT SS was most accurate with close 2nd being the KAC, my BIL is the same. SCAR sucks, no other way to put it, sold that fker in hot second.
LMT is a little overgrassed but reliability is paramount and KACs finicky nature with ammo is legendary and having experienced it myself, it blows my mind that a 'battle rifle' wouldn't be able to eat everything and especially given the nature of NATO procurement for ammo (think Igman comes to mind with the ammo fiasco in early 2000s).
He also contradicts himself with the over gas and parts reliability not to mention, it's such an immaterial difference that I find it laughable.
fun video
LMT is a little overgrassed but reliability is paramount and KACs finicky nature with ammo is legendary and having experienced it myself, it blows my mind that a 'battle rifle' wouldn't be able to eat everything and especially given the nature of NATO procurement for ammo (think Igman comes to mind with the ammo fiasco in early 2000s).
He also contradicts himself with the over gas and parts reliability not to mention, it's such an immaterial difference that I find it laughable.
fun video
Nope proprietary HK "fuck you pay me" 80-100+ dollar magazines.
SCAR mags are proprietary too or at least they used to be however price was 40? each.
Honorable mention to the KAC factory mags which are 100+ dollars each likely because Uncle Sam is paying.
Ok, I have a questions. What is the purpose of over gassing a rifle, is it by design?
Second, the user of the YouTube that @RUTGERS95 posted states a lot of the gasses get blown back to your face by the LM&T. I have seen ad’s for charging handles that are supposed to help with that. If that is the case why LM&T not use that if it reduces the effect?
Last, the YouTube’s of OSS cans show that when using their cans the gasses sent back are greatly reduced. I would think that would make the rifle not only heavier but more unwieldly.
Maxwell
Second, the user of the YouTube that @RUTGERS95 posted states a lot of the gasses get blown back to your face by the LM&T. I have seen ad’s for charging handles that are supposed to help with that. If that is the case why LM&T not use that if it reduces the effect?
Last, the YouTube’s of OSS cans show that when using their cans the gasses sent back are greatly reduced. I would think that would make the rifle not only heavier but more unwieldly.
Maxwell
Rutger, just out of curiosity, what type of ammo and what model/generation sr25 did you have the issues with ammo? I am mostly curious because I know this was an issue with older models, but was under the impression it was not with the newest like the ACC.
Typically rifles are "overgassed" to increase reliability to cycle with various types of ammo in various conditions. Sending more gas backwards usually helps blow debris out and ensure the bolt cycles, extracts and picks up the next round.
You can use the silencero, radian and im sure other charging handles to bleed off some gas too, I've only used the LMT handles and dont have complaints. The consensus from LMT is that they chose their gas design on purpose to increase reliability at the cost of more gas being captured in the tube. If its a concern you can get a BRT gas tube, charging handle designed to bleed more off or even get an adjustable gas block on the barrel.
I used various ammo brands from fgmm all the way down to zqi. With LC she ran like a top and I'd add my BIL had a newer sr25 and it too was finicky with ammo brands
Neat video. He spent a chunk of change on ammo to make it. I watched a couple of the videos when he posted them on FB.
All of the rifles ran good. You can tell they were put out by companies with the budgets to develope accurate, reliable systems. While military contracts don’t guarantee perfection, they do usually signify a system that will meet a standard.
I don’t have the rifles, ammo budget, or time but I’d like to see how a DD5, SP10M, 716I, N6, V7, Armalite AR10, OBR, UIC10, a JP large frame, REC10, a B&T 308 and even one of the discontinued Colt 901’s fare under the same tests.
All of the rifles ran good. You can tell they were put out by companies with the budgets to develope accurate, reliable systems. While military contracts don’t guarantee perfection, they do usually signify a system that will meet a standard.
I don’t have the rifles, ammo budget, or time but I’d like to see how a DD5, SP10M, 716I, N6, V7, Armalite AR10, OBR, UIC10, a JP large frame, REC10, a B&T 308 and even one of the discontinued Colt 901’s fare under the same tests.
The HK looks fantastic but the weight specs online make me think it's a pig to carry around.
In regard to over gassing a rifle by design, I not sure that over gassing means the same thing to everybody.
Where I may say that a rifle may be overgassed if you are experiencing failures to feed, extract, or parts breakage, others may say that anything that is not gassed optimally would be overgassed.
none of these rifles in any sense of the word can be considered unreliable, based on over a decade of down range performance. The only time that overgassing really comes up is when somebody mounts a full size, silencer that was probably designed and engineered for maximum sound suppression on a closed system such as a bolt action.
Considering that most of these rifles are going to be submitted for the same test/solictation, the rifles have to be gassed to run a reliable a wide selection of ammo in temperatures ranging from -60 to 160. If the system does not have enough gas to run a -60, it will essentially disqualify its self from moving forward. Incidentally, this also means that a gun is going to run hotter as temperatures increase. All of these rifles have passed DoD climate testing suppressed and suppressed.
Kac using their own cans.
LMT Used SF
HK used OSS
Scar used there own can.
Nobody is submitting a rifle for evaluation using some bullshit, hobby grade bolt gun can. Pew Science's blog/podcast does a really good job of detailing how important it is to really understand the engineering that goes into these cans and how they are going to perform on a particular host.
So going back to the question of gas deflecting charging handles. Gas to your face is not a problem if you are using the appropriate can. Gas deflecting charging handles are a product of the early 2000's when silencers just started to gain in popularity and concept low back pressure cans did not exist.
is my 13.5 MWS gassed more generously than my ACC, probably, but when configured with the same break, and can, its really hard to feel a difference shooting them back to back.
great postIn regard to over gassing a rifle by design, I not sure that over gassing means the same thing to everybody.
Where I may say that a rifle may be overgassed if you are experiencing failures to feed, extract, or parts breakage, others may say that anything that is not gassed optimally would be overgassed.
none of these rifles in any sense of the word can be considered unreliable, based on over a decade of down range performance. The only time that overgassing really comes up is when somebody mounts a full size, silencer that was probably designed and engineered for maximum sound suppression on a closed system such as a bolt action.
Considering that most of these rifles are going to be submitted for the same test/solictation, the rifles have to be gassed to run a reliable a wide selection of ammo in temperatures ranging from -60 to 160. If the system does not have enough gas to run a -60, it will essentially disqualify its self from moving forward. Incidentally, this also means that a gun is going to run hotter as temperatures increase. All of these rifles have passed DoD climate testing suppressed and suppressed.
Kac using their own cans.
LMT Used SF
HK used OSS
Scar used there own can.
Nobody is submitting a rifle for evaluation using some bullshit, hobby grade bolt gun can. Pew Science's blog/podcast does a really good job of detailing how important it is to really understand the engineering that goes into these cans and how they are going to perform on a particular host.
So going back to the question of gas deflecting charging handles. Gas to your face is not a problem if you are using the appropriate can. Gas deflecting charging handles are a product of the early 2000's when silencers just started to gain in popularity and concept low back pressure cans did not exist.
is my 13.5 MWS gassed more generously than my ACC, probably, but when configured with the same break, and can, its really hard to feel a difference shooting them back to back.
@GUNNER10, thank you too for a detailed explanation. I am not an engineer nor do I play one on the internet, just trying to learn from others.
I looked back in my in e-mail box to see how long ago I put my name on a waiting list, not quite a year now. No problem, not in a rush. Many good things are worth the wait.
Have a good weekend.
Maxwell
I looked back in my in e-mail box to see how long ago I put my name on a waiting list, not quite a year now. No problem, not in a rush. Many good things are worth the wait.
Have a good weekend.
Maxwell
Waiting list for rifle, suppressor?
I have a few questions about what that video seemed to show.
- What kind of barrel did the LMT rifle have (Stainless Steel or CM)?
- Was there a reason why the Bipod was extended longer during the FGMM shooting of the LMT then any of the other rifles?
- Why wasn't the MLok version of the LMT used instead of the Quad Rail?
- What kind of barrel did the LMT rifle have (Stainless Steel or CM)?
- Was there a reason why the Bipod was extended longer during the FGMM shooting of the LMT then any of the other rifles?
- Why wasn't the MLok version of the LMT used instead of the Quad Rail?
Probably the chrome lined version, bipod could be his personal shooting position at the time, I wasn't aware that MLOK made the bullets fly straighter vs quad rail.
LMT are built for relatability in extreme conditions and abuse. Now you can tune the rifle to fit your needs with any adjustable gas block, bcg or install parts that just redirects the gas like an LMT enhanced carrier or a good charging handle.
KAC runs a tighter DI but they state that low powered ammo like steal case will not operate reliably in there newer builds.
if you don’t feel like dumping cash on a charging handle, you can apply silicone to the stock charging handle and get similar results.
He was running the stock 16 inch CL. I think the idea was to do a base line comparison of the big 4 308 gas guns and I think he achieved that. There is a lot of interest in these 4 rifles and there really isn't a lot of content that directly compares and contrast as not many people can drop 30k on rifles, optics and ammo for a youtube video. While I may have a minor critic on a part of the video, I think he puts out great content.
I spoke to him briefly via DM and it sounds like he does have some other barrels and he will continue to do similar videos in the future.
Does that thing really not have the HK fluted chamber ?
I have not handled one of those, I only have my PSG1 to gauge by.
Thanks.
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