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Range Report Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

T

Triggerfifty

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 1, 2005
199
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Hey shooters, i've had a few "ask abouts" concerning a subject that is in the data tables I sell. Not sure if this is the place to post this, but it is reloading related.

"We used to teach this load as a method for SOF snipers to recovery soviet 7.62 x 54R ammo, pull their bullet and use 3.1cc of powder, re-prime the operator's once fired cases, load the primer then reseat the russian bullet in the 7.62 x 51mm case. Yeah, the bullets are .311, and it pushes up the pressure, but without signs on the case. It's not a problem.

We used to do an exercise where a sniper team came into a FFP, they were out of ammo, but a broken SVD was nearby, they were expected to pull 5 rounds of 7.62 x 54R down, reload 5 of their fired cases with this bullet/powder, then engage 3 of 5 targets to a max range of 500 yards. 2 misses allowed for the non-zeroed state. They had 10 minutes to set up for the first shot, It was mostly for fun, but a great drill.

We did this under the guise of teaching precision reloading. We taught reloading 190 SMKs for a long range precision load, also mexican matching by slap hammering the 173 gr. special ball slug out, then pressing in and seating 168 gr. SMKs on top of the standard M118 load.

All that has gone away now, too much safety, and we are at WAR. Imagine that."

Trigger

BATTLEFIELD RECOVERY 7.62mm X 51
 2001
EMERGENCY ONLY: BULLETS FROM .306 TO .311 DIAMETER OR 7.6mm TO7.65mm WILL FIRE DOWN AN M-24 BARREL.

RECOVERY OF COM BLOC AMMUNITION: USE THE POWDER AND BULLET FROM THE SOVIET 7.62 X 54 RIMMED CARTRIDGE. USE 42 GRAINS (a 3.1CC scoop from a Lee Reloading Kit) OF POWDER. SOVIET B ULLET WEIGHT IS APPROX. 182 GRAINS.

YUGOSLAVIAN 7.62mm X 54 RIMMED IS CHOICE AMMUNITION. IT IS MUCH BETTER THAN SOVIET MANUFACTURED AMMUNITION.
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

....fascinating, were these re-primed w/comblock primers or US commercial ?
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

US Commercial... Federal Match, or whatever the guy carried. Pretty basic concept. Carry a Lee Field Reloading kit, small leather hammer, a slap hammer, primers and a 3.1cc scoop from the kits.

Yeah, clearly it's not something to do in a tactical environment, but mostly was done for unconventional warfare where re-supply wasn't likely or predictable. UW has in alot of ways gone away, the face of the war is drastically different these days. Case in Point: Guys have so much crap on their fronts that they are now UP in the bullet ricochet zone, and the surgeons see the result in more head and shoulder strikes, but like the bullets fell out of the sky. Sorry, got off on a tangent.

Guys, if you haven't used one of these little Lee kits, they're alot of fun to play with, all done by hand, with some leather you can make the process pretty quiet. It's old world stuff for sure, but still works in a pinch when ammo is out.

Trig
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

Now to figure out how to carry a bunch of primers without them either rattling or going off...
laugh.gif
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

Actually, this isn't new, and it's been done for quite a long time, without incident. For carrying, you have alot of options, and without much genius methodology. As for going off? There is always that possibility, but it's less dangerous than the non-electric B caps one may have with them, seperate of course from the chunks of C4 laying around inside a rucksack.

Trig
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

Slide open primers apply scotch tape on top of plastic tray, slide back into sleeve and tape sleeve closed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now to figure out how to carry a bunch of primers without them either rattling or going off...
laugh.gif

</div></div>
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

Pretty interesting, thanks T50!
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

I'd substitute masking tape for scotch tape, but otherwise...; bang-on...
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

The Lee Classic and Lee Hand presses both look like a possible blessing to load development; possibly even allowing load alteration and experimentation in-place at the range. That could be a real time and travel saver.

I'd be happier if the shebang was available in a .260 chambering, but there may be ways around that.

Lastly, being able to employ Lock-n-Load bushings with one or both of these devices could be a definite plus.

Greg
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

Greg-

I keep the Lee "Pliers from Hell" in my range back when I'm doing load work. The whole setup for charge thrower, balance, trickler and hand press fits in the bag along with a piece of plywood and a screwdriver and vice clamps. I bring prepped and primed brass with me, and if I'm tweaking a load I just charge and seat at the range.

Lock-n-Load bushings would make it a very nice setup, but the hand press doesn't have the real-estate to fit them in.
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

Strickland... yes, it was an option. SF guys as most special oeprators are given options, or tools for their toolbox so to speak. This is what you "can" do, you pick what you "want" to do.

Just for general information, most of this program came to a stop. The army found out that the "battlefield recovery" thing was a cover for precision loading or reloading.

I've carried these tools now and then, not on every trip into the woods. The biggest issue frankly was keeping brass as you shot it up, as your load is heavy enough, keeping brass around adds "carry weight". It can be cached in the UW environment, but that has it's own special issues.

I'm thinking this would be an interesting whole string of threads. Survival and Emergency Reloading... what do you think? Just an open forum for the exchange of the ideas that some of you sharp thinkers have out there.

Trigger
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

T50, as an aside:

It looks like there were beaucoup countries that loaded 180gr pills in 54r: Czech, Hungarian, Yugo, Russia, and even Iran I think.

I can't imagine that they were all using the same powder right?

O, and while I'm thinking about it, what was it about the Yugoslav ammo that made it more desirable?

Neat stuff!
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

very interesting, thanks t50, I've lately often worried about what would happen if TEOTWAWKI hapened right now and all I had to depend on was my modest supply of about 100 rnds. I've thought about the handloading kit as it is also cheap.
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

The Yugo bullets were copper with a lead core. All others used a cupro-nickle outer with a mild steel core. The core could be off center and create a imbalance. Also the 149gr com block with the steel core is longer. Makes it act like a 170gr in the bore. It could increase pressures. Also diameter is all over the place. .3085-.312
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

Fascinating thread. A couple questions though:

If your going to pack in the reloading kit and primers, why not just pack in more ammo? Is there a real reason for it, or was it just this:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the "battlefield recovery" thing was a cover for precision loading or reloading.</div></div>

I guess primers take up a lot less room then the equivalent number of rounds you could create with them.

Also, I read this a few times, and I'm still not sure I understood it correctly:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Case in Point: Guys have so much crap on their fronts that they are now UP in the bullet ricochet zone, and the surgeons see the result in more head and shoulder strikes, but like the bullets fell out of the sky.</div></div>
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

Why not reload your primers??

I've heard of pulling out the anvils, use a nail (w/ the point flattened) as a punch to flatten out the FP indentation.

Cut off the white part of a "strike anywhere" match and use that under the old anvil to reload the compound.
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hellbender</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not reload your primers??

I've heard of pulling out the anvils, use a nail (w/ the point flattened) as a punch to flatten out the FP indentation.

Cut off the white part of a "strike anywhere" match and use that under the old anvil to reload the compound. </div></div>

I saw this as well, from a link to the High Point forum. The weight of a 100 pack of primers is probably the same as the special nail you need and you also have a known solution of known ignition consitency.
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

That is great info! I'm going to try it on 427's rifle this weekend.
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

"The Lee Classic and Lee Hand presses both look like a possible blessing to load development; possibly even allowing load alteration and experimentation in-place at the range. That could be a real time and travel saver."
I put together a kit containing the powder of the day, primed brass, scale, dies, etc. and the Lee hand press in a 20mm ammo box.
I used this a lot when I had to drive 15 mi to the range. I live at the range now, so don't need the kit.
Probably not too much weight to carry a trimmed down kit in a back pack to recover ammo as stated.
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hellbender</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not reload your primers??

I've heard of pulling out the anvils, use a nail (w/ the point flattened) as a punch to flatten out the FP indentation.

Cut off the white part of a "strike anywhere" match and use that under the old anvil to reload the compound. </div></div>

I've seen this done with low pressure (10Kpsi)pistol rounds as an experiment. I wouldn't want to do this with 50Kpsi rifle rounds. Also, I don't think the "match head stuff" has the brisance to light ~40grs of rifle powder. Not to mention it's tedious as hell and you need a clean/dry/stable work environment.
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Slide open primers apply scotch tape on top of plastic tray, slide back into sleeve and tape sleeve closed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now to figure out how to carry a bunch of primers without them either rattling or going off...
laugh.gif

</div></div> </div></div>

I know this is late to this discussion. But what I got is one of those little flyholder boxes. One that fits two boxes across (6"x4". With the padding they will hold two boxes deep or 400 total. You might have to cut the padding in half or replace it with other thinner packing padding.

This is a pretty slick idea. As a kid we used to reload .22 Hornet, .218 Bee and .250 Savage on a hand held ideal reloader. the hands sure got sore after the .250. But we could do 20 or so.
 
Re: Battlefield Recovery of Ammunition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triggerfifty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Just for general information, most of this program came to a stop. The army found out that the "battlefield recovery" thing was a cover for precision loading or reloading.</span>

...

Trigger</div></div>

Like developing their own rounds/loads instead of what BoO gives them. And some of the rounds being really productive...like the 6.8 (that produces a lot more smackdown than the 5.56) At least that forced the military to let the public look at what they weren't doing.
 
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