BC vs Accuracy - Which is More Important?

[paulwardd]

I've just recently gotten into long range shooting, and this question has been gnawing at me for awhile. In the long run, is it more important to have round with a higher bc bullet or a round that will shoot more accurately?

I know there are plenty of exceptions, so here are some guidelines I've thought up that are relevant for me. This is all theoretical for now.

Shooting 300 PRC
Figure shooting out 1,000+, hoping to make 1200yd to a mile a pretty realistic and repeatable occurrence.
Shooting a ~225gr bullet at 2900fps so I get the same theoretical range
I'm looking at two bullets: Hornady ELDM at .777 G1 BC and Berger Long Range Hybrid Target at .717 G1 BC

I know at long range, the higher the BC possible the better, but at what tradeoff for accuracy? Shooting the Hornady at .75 MOA vs Berger at sub 0.5? What about Hornady at 1 MOA vs Berger at .5? What about if the berger were lower BC? Would your answer change for 1000 yards vs a mile?

I know I'm probably all over the place asking a lot, but I feel it's a good question to ask. Any guidance will greatly help me.

 

[morganlamprecht]

youre comparing the hornady highest banded BC vs the berger averaged BC (i think avg over 800 yds iirc)

look this link over... https://www.hornady.com/support/ballistic-coefficient , and check the mach values and how the BCs shift, youll likely end up near the lowest mach # BC when shooting past 1k

that said...if you want more consistent bullets in flight, my opinion is shoot bergers, theyre just more expensive...ive never had a barrel that bergers didnt fly as (or typically more consistent) than hornady...not talking about a couple of 3-5 shot picked groups...im talking multiple 1000s of hornadys and multiple 1000s of bergers from anything 223 up to large magnums...a-tips are the possible lone exception, i havent shot any of them to have an opinion, but ive seen some really good results from buddies

BC vs accuracy is a trade off...one recent example i have is my 6.5prc, i shot 120 nosler ballistic tips and 135 berger classic hunters side by side, both of these at 100 shoot ragged holes, its a wash there...but to hit a 6" painted dot at 800, the nosler consistently took almost 1mil...the 135 berger took .6mil ...little over 8" of difference...both groups were sub moa, noslers right at 7" and the bergers at 5"...but the bergers keep me closer to my point of aim for longer if i guess the wind wrong...the higher BC typically gives the shooter much more room for error as conditions change

another example is my 223s...theyll shoot with anything i have at 100...they hang well to 5-600...past that, it is noticably harder to keep them on 1-1.5 moa plates from 800-1000 where my other rifles with much higher BCs have no issue at all

but thats comparing bullets with low to mid .200s G7s vs low to mid .300s...in your example i dont think youd notice or be able to pick out much difference at all in the noise of wind and shooter error...2 bullets in the mid to low .700 g1, are gunna drift close enough its a wash...shoot the more accurate bullet...my money is on the berger

 

[Jack Master]

is it more important to have round with a higher bc bullet or a round that will shoot more accurately?

This question boils down to the distance and cartridge you are shooting. Initial muzzle velocity and group sizes are more important in the supersonic ranges. In the tran-sonic and sub-sonic ranges the BC start to have much bigger effect. You'll need to choose which area you will be shooting more often and base your decision on it.

For the a 300PRC, at 1000-1200yd distance the BC is just getting started working. At that 2900fps at the muzzle both of these bullets will still be supersonic when they reach 1000 or 1200 yds. Is BC effecting your total drop and wind? Yes. But, not like it would in the tran-sonic or subsonic zones. In the subsonic range the BC start to matter a lot more. Bullet drop and wind deviation start to become much more effected.

Let the numbers show you the way to go. Below are 2 charts from the online Hornady ballistic program.

MV = 2900 with 10MPH wind at 90 degrees

The first chart is G1 = .777
Turns tran-sonic around 1600yds.
1000 Yd - Drop 245" - Wind 47"
1200 Yd - Drop 393" - Wind 72"

The 2nd Chart is G1 = .717
Turns tran-sonic around 1500yds.
1000 Yd - Drop 254" - Wind 53"
1200 Yd - Drop 410" - Wind 80"

Remembering these are all Theoretical values.
You are only giving up 10" drop at 1000yds and 14" drop at 1200 yards to get a better shooting group. Drop is constant and predictable. I would not worry about this value. Dialing any extra 1 MOA or .2Mil on your scope is not a big deal.
Wind is 6" different at 1000 and 8" different at 1200 yards. This is 3/4 MOA or .2 Mil wind. This is equivalent to calling the wind speed to within 1 mph which is very difficult to do.

If your your groups sized at 100yards are 3/4 or 1/2 minute does not mean your groups at 1000yds will also be 3/4 or 1/2 minute. Groups are more likely to be 1 or 1.5 moa. This is 10.47" or 15" at 1000yds. When comparing this to the 6" of wind variance shows that group size is more important.

Group size is also about confidence. If you pick the better BC bullet with bigger groups and miss at 1000 yards your going to blame it on the gun when it was likely you or your wind call that made the mistake. Having a tight group and knowing you can make the shot if you do your part makes a lot of difference.

You will likely get several different responses for this questions but if your are shooting mostly supersonic go with the group size. If you are regularly getting into the subsonic range go with BC. Be realistic here, not many people shoot past 1000 on a regular basis. We all dream of it, but few do it.

 

[paulwardd]

Thank you both! That clears up a lot for me.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I've played with both the 225s and Berger 230s in my existing 300 PRC, and when I get my new build in a few weeks, I'll be adding 230 ATips to the mix.

The thing to remember about the Berger is that it has the hybrid ogive, which is much more forgiving with respect to seating depth. This means you don't need to keep chasing the lands as the throat erodes. In absolute terms, the higher BC bullet would seem to be better in certain regimes, but from a practical perspective, I've found the Berger to be superior.

Different bullet, but yesterday I did an extreme seating depth test with my 6 BRA and Berger 105 hybrids. I've been using .025 as my go-to. I did tests at 025, .050 and .075. At 850 yards I had no substantive vertical difference between the .025 and the .050 (about 2.5" spread ), while the .065 showed marginal vertical dispersion difference at about 4".

I've got 500 A-Tips I'll be playing with in the 300 PRC, but it's going to take a lot to move me off of the 230 Bergers.

 

[salks]

Go with the Berger. Some advise given to me from a friend. I have found it to always be true.

 

[paulwardd]

I've played with both the 225s and Berger 230s in my existing 300 PRC, and when I get my new build in a few weeks, I'll be adding 230 ATips to the mix.

The thing to remember about the Berger is that it has the hybrid ogive, which is much more forgiving with respect to seating depth. This means you don't need to keep chasing the lands as the throat erodes. In absolute terms, the higher BC bullet would seem to be better in certain regimes, but from a practical perspective, I've found the Berger to be superior.

Different bullet, but yesterday I did an extreme seating depth test with my 6 BRA and Berger 105 hybrids. I've been using .025 as my go-to. I did tests at 025, .050 and .075. At 850 yards I had no substantive vertical difference between the .025 and the .050 (about 2.5" spread ), while the .065 showed marginal vertical dispersion difference at about 4".

I've got 500 A-Tips I'll be playing with in the 300 PRC, but it's going to take a lot to move me off of the 230 Bergers.

Thank you!

 

[hereinaz]

If you want to understand this, buy Bryan Litz books and use the WEZ analysis.

 

[Davo308]

On a similar note, Bryan Litz was on The Every Day Podcast part 3 and commented that he would prefer a load with smaller SD's vs one that shot a smaller group.

Berger No BS BC Podcast Part 3 with Bryan and Emil

https://theeverydaysniper.podbean.com/e/the-everyday-sniper-berger-no-bs-bc-with-bryan-litz-emil-praslick-part-3/ This episode is probably my favorite so far, we had a great conversation, the flow was awesome knowledge bombs were falling from heaven, absolute perfect podcast Enjoy

www.snipershide.com

 

[Dthomas3523]

For your goals of shooting a mile, the two most important things will be:

Low ES
Bullet to bullet consistency

Modern Bullets all have more than enough BC and shoot well into the .5moa or less groups.

But, at distance you will need consistent velocity, otherwise you won’t know why you missed if at any time you can have a random velocity high or low enough to miss. This is why you see shooters like David Tubb running a chrono at all times. When he misses he can see if velocity was the reason behind the miss.

Once you have an ES acceptable for your target size, the only two things that can now go wrong is A) shooter error or B) bullet to bullet inconsistency

Bullets not being consistent is the biggest reason people say their groups were good at 100 but “fell apart“ at distance. They say the “gun doesn’t like the load or bullet” when in fact the bullets have a different BC and the variance is enough to open the group. Solution to this is sorting/tipping/pointing Bullets or buying Bullets that are very consistent.

 

[Steel head]

For your goals of shooting a mile, the two most important things will be:

Low ES
Bullet to bullet consistency

Modern Bullets all have more than enough BC and shoot well into the .5moa or less groups.

But, at distance you will need consistent velocity, otherwise you won’t know why you missed if at any time you can have a random velocity high or low enough to miss. This is why you see shooters like David Tubb running a chrono at all times. When he misses he can see if velocity was the reason behind the miss.

Once you have an ES acceptable for your target size, the only two things that can now go wrong is A) shooter error or B) bullet to bullet inconsistency

Bullets not being consistent is the biggest reason people say their groups were good at 100 but “fell apart“ at distance. They say the “gun doesn’t like the load or bullet” when in fact the bullets have a different BC and the variance is enough to open the group. Solution to this is sorting/tipping/pointing Bullets or buying Bullets that are very consistent.