Been looking into building a M98 based hunting rifle, and I'm wondering about the bedding. I've heard/seen it done 2 diffrent ways on the 98. Is it better to float the barrel or bed it all the way out to the end of the stock? Reason I ask is I have a 1903A3 built around 1955 that's bedded all the way and it shoots great (.5moa or better) yet I've seen some that are floated and shoot well too. So which is better for this style action?
Gunsmithing Bedding a mauser
- Thread starter Nortex
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Re: Bedding a mauser
If it were me, I would bed the action and approx 1" of the barrel first and shoot it..... it's alot easier to bed the rest if you want to later than it is to remove cured bedding....
If it were me, I would bed the action and approx 1" of the barrel first and shoot it..... it's alot easier to bed the rest if you want to later than it is to remove cured bedding....
Re: Bedding a mauser
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chpprguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it were me, I would bed the action and approx 1" of the barrel first and shoot it..... it's alot easier to bed the rest if you want to later than it is to remove cured bedding.... </div></div>
+1 thays what I do on all my Mausers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chpprguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it were me, I would bed the action and approx 1" of the barrel first and shoot it..... it's alot easier to bed the rest if you want to later than it is to remove cured bedding....
+1 thays what I do on all my Mausers
Re: Bedding a mauser
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought about first inch or so but just wanted some other thoughts on the idea. I understand its better to at the least bed it that far since the action screw goes into the recoil lug. </div></div>
It's worked well for me so far, even with a heavy barrel, YMMV
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought about first inch or so but just wanted some other thoughts on the idea. I understand its better to at the least bed it that far since the action screw goes into the recoil lug. </div></div>
It's worked well for me so far, even with a heavy barrel, YMMV
Re: Bedding a mauser
On an older '98 (M/K 98) I've found it's usually best to bed about "chamber length" down the barrel. While the steel was the best for it's day, it doesn't compare to the modern 4150CM or 416R stainless actions for purity, thus strength (keeping it from flexing).
Your new barrel no doubt will be of modern steel. That does not need to be bedded. You do need to find a harmonically compatible load for it, though.
When I glass bed Mausers, I pretty much hog out the inletted area a good deal. I then fill the upper portion of the stock with as much acra-glass as is needed to fill all the voids. I bed front and back. As the rear tang is the only other fastener for the action. It needs to be held in place, so I put a layer of acra-glass under it. When it cures it clamps down nice and flat to that. The front has been filled until it squishes out a bit and that gets trimmed off. Remember to put release agent on your action. After you let the glass cure, then pull the action out and trim down in the stock so that the bottom metal, particularly the magazine well, can slide all the way up into the stock. Once, that is done you can then repeat the procedure with the bottom metal.
On a Mauser, <span style="color: #FF0000">DO NOT</span> bed both the action and the bottom metal at the same time. One or the other more than likely will become a glue in. Don't ask, but I know.
On an older '98 (M/K 98) I've found it's usually best to bed about "chamber length" down the barrel. While the steel was the best for it's day, it doesn't compare to the modern 4150CM or 416R stainless actions for purity, thus strength (keeping it from flexing).
Your new barrel no doubt will be of modern steel. That does not need to be bedded. You do need to find a harmonically compatible load for it, though.
When I glass bed Mausers, I pretty much hog out the inletted area a good deal. I then fill the upper portion of the stock with as much acra-glass as is needed to fill all the voids. I bed front and back. As the rear tang is the only other fastener for the action. It needs to be held in place, so I put a layer of acra-glass under it. When it cures it clamps down nice and flat to that. The front has been filled until it squishes out a bit and that gets trimmed off. Remember to put release agent on your action. After you let the glass cure, then pull the action out and trim down in the stock so that the bottom metal, particularly the magazine well, can slide all the way up into the stock. Once, that is done you can then repeat the procedure with the bottom metal.
On a Mauser, <span style="color: #FF0000">DO NOT</span> bed both the action and the bottom metal at the same time. One or the other more than likely will become a glue in. Don't ask, but I know.
Re: Bedding a mauser
Good points on not bedding the metal and the action at the same time (been there too).
I add a pillar under the rear tang for extra strength under there. The front is "self pillared" basically, but the rear will crush over time in a wooden stock.
I also have started placing an AL or steel recoil block in wood stocks at the recoil lug to help deal with the small contact patch created by the integral lug on that action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While the steel was the best for it's day, it doesn't compare to the modern 4150CM or 416R stainless actions for purity, thus strength (keeping it from flexing).</div></div>
Bending/stiffness is determined by the modulus of elasticity of the steel and not the stress allowables of the material. The difference in modulus from mild steel to fully hardened 4000 series is less than 2%, so the explanation above is not really in line with reality.
You're right in that the steels that Mausers used (in the good factories) were truly top notch for the day and they're still not a bad way to do things. Thru hardened 4340 300 M is so nice to make high strength components from though, that its not advantageous to use case hardened 1000 series type steels like Mauser was doing.
Good points on not bedding the metal and the action at the same time (been there too).
I add a pillar under the rear tang for extra strength under there. The front is "self pillared" basically, but the rear will crush over time in a wooden stock.
I also have started placing an AL or steel recoil block in wood stocks at the recoil lug to help deal with the small contact patch created by the integral lug on that action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While the steel was the best for it's day, it doesn't compare to the modern 4150CM or 416R stainless actions for purity, thus strength (keeping it from flexing).</div></div>
Bending/stiffness is determined by the modulus of elasticity of the steel and not the stress allowables of the material. The difference in modulus from mild steel to fully hardened 4000 series is less than 2%, so the explanation above is not really in line with reality.
You're right in that the steels that Mausers used (in the good factories) were truly top notch for the day and they're still not a bad way to do things. Thru hardened 4340 300 M is so nice to make high strength components from though, that its not advantageous to use case hardened 1000 series type steels like Mauser was doing.
Re: Bedding a mauser
I have bedded a lot of 98 Mausers and have evolved my own system.
The rear pillar is in many ways a copy of Wagner:
http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/mmrifle/mmrifle3.html
http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/turk/turkbed1.html
http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/turk/turkbed2.html
http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/turk/turkbed3.html
Except I use mild steel [1010] 3/8" tubing, and he uses water pipe nipples.
The Mauser action screws have .390" heads and .254" shanks.
The 3/8" tubing has and outside diameter of .375" and an inside diameter of .306"
I need ~ .048" of bushing to center the screw in the pillar.
That is ~.025" per side. That should be ~ 5 layers of .005" masking tape, but is always much less, like ~ 2 layers.
For the pillars to be pre compressed, the washers need an inside diameter of .255" and an outside diameter of .390".
There are no such washers. They need to be fabricated from other washers.
I put the screws, tape, pillars, and washers on the receiver and tighten the screws.
I drill out the stock to accept this to drop in.
I put Steel putty on the outside of the pillars, and the inside of the holes in the stock.
I put Steel putty on the stock behind the recoil lug to accept the recoil force and the action screw force.
This way, as steel in concrete is best pre stressed in tension, pillars in stock are best pre stressed in compression.
I try to get the Mauser and bottom metal working together just right outside the stock. I feed dummy rounds. I measure the gap between the top and bottom metal in the front and the rear. I count the number of turns it takes to get the screws in tight. I do it with the pillar in the rear, but I do not like to pillar in the front, so some other spacer is needed. Sometimes I make a big dummy pillar for the front.
When I put the top and bottom metal and rear pillar in the stock with the right number of turns on the screws, I want the barreled action and bottom metal to have a small clearance to move in the stock. I don't want the wood to touch [or at least not to push on] the barreled action or the bottom metal. The wood will later touch the glass and the pillar. The barreled action and and the bottom metal will clamp the stock by pushing on the rear pillar and on the glass.
I don't bed .223 Mausers, but it does not matter much, because I hate converting Mausers to .223.
Anyway, 223s do not kick hard enough to make any measurable change in accuracy by bedding for me.
300 Win mag Mausers, I glass bed them. I don't mind that conversion.
I try to get the first inch of barrel in front of the receiver bedded, along with the back side of the recoil lug, and a square inch of area under the receiver behind the recoil lug. I pillar bed the rear with a pre compressed and scored pillar made from 3/8" mild steel tubing. I glass the front of the bottom metal later. The rear of the bottom metal is already positioned with the pillar.
When I am done bedding the barreled action, I take it out, put it back in, screw it down, hang onto the stock wrist with one hand and bang the barrel with the palm of my other hand. I want hear a sustained high frequency sine wave like a tuning fork. If not, I chisel some out and start over.
I use Devcon steel putty so I don't have to fight time or gravity.
I use Redding Imperial die wax for release agent, because it is there. Many things would work.
I use a lot of masking tape, not clay, to keep epoxy off of things I don't want epoxied.
When ever I get tempted to use clay, I use foam rubber instead.
I have bedded a lot of 98 Mausers and have evolved my own system.
The rear pillar is in many ways a copy of Wagner:
http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/mmrifle/mmrifle3.html
http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/turk/turkbed1.html
http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/turk/turkbed2.html
http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/turk/turkbed3.html
Except I use mild steel [1010] 3/8" tubing, and he uses water pipe nipples.
The Mauser action screws have .390" heads and .254" shanks.
The 3/8" tubing has and outside diameter of .375" and an inside diameter of .306"
I need ~ .048" of bushing to center the screw in the pillar.
That is ~.025" per side. That should be ~ 5 layers of .005" masking tape, but is always much less, like ~ 2 layers.
For the pillars to be pre compressed, the washers need an inside diameter of .255" and an outside diameter of .390".
There are no such washers. They need to be fabricated from other washers.
I put the screws, tape, pillars, and washers on the receiver and tighten the screws.
I drill out the stock to accept this to drop in.
I put Steel putty on the outside of the pillars, and the inside of the holes in the stock.
I put Steel putty on the stock behind the recoil lug to accept the recoil force and the action screw force.
This way, as steel in concrete is best pre stressed in tension, pillars in stock are best pre stressed in compression.
I try to get the Mauser and bottom metal working together just right outside the stock. I feed dummy rounds. I measure the gap between the top and bottom metal in the front and the rear. I count the number of turns it takes to get the screws in tight. I do it with the pillar in the rear, but I do not like to pillar in the front, so some other spacer is needed. Sometimes I make a big dummy pillar for the front.
When I put the top and bottom metal and rear pillar in the stock with the right number of turns on the screws, I want the barreled action and bottom metal to have a small clearance to move in the stock. I don't want the wood to touch [or at least not to push on] the barreled action or the bottom metal. The wood will later touch the glass and the pillar. The barreled action and and the bottom metal will clamp the stock by pushing on the rear pillar and on the glass.
I don't bed .223 Mausers, but it does not matter much, because I hate converting Mausers to .223.
Anyway, 223s do not kick hard enough to make any measurable change in accuracy by bedding for me.
300 Win mag Mausers, I glass bed them. I don't mind that conversion.
I try to get the first inch of barrel in front of the receiver bedded, along with the back side of the recoil lug, and a square inch of area under the receiver behind the recoil lug. I pillar bed the rear with a pre compressed and scored pillar made from 3/8" mild steel tubing. I glass the front of the bottom metal later. The rear of the bottom metal is already positioned with the pillar.
When I am done bedding the barreled action, I take it out, put it back in, screw it down, hang onto the stock wrist with one hand and bang the barrel with the palm of my other hand. I want hear a sustained high frequency sine wave like a tuning fork. If not, I chisel some out and start over.
I use Devcon steel putty so I don't have to fight time or gravity.
I use Redding Imperial die wax for release agent, because it is there. Many things would work.
I use a lot of masking tape, not clay, to keep epoxy off of things I don't want epoxied.
When ever I get tempted to use clay, I use foam rubber instead.
Re: Bedding a mauser
Sorry guys, I forgot to mention I do use the pillars that come with the action. It is about 1 1/4"(?) for the rear. The front is supposed to fit together with the bottom metal preventing a crush fit of the wood. And I do bed them. They are (should be) the only thing that becomes a glue in.
Sorry guys, I forgot to mention I do use the pillars that come with the action. It is about 1 1/4"(?) for the rear. The front is supposed to fit together with the bottom metal preventing a crush fit of the wood. And I do bed them. They are (should be) the only thing that becomes a glue in.
Re: Bedding a mauser
What weight barrel and what kind of stock would be useful information.
What weight barrel and what kind of stock would be useful information.
