Beginner! Critique my reloading stuff and what else should i buy?

[stello1001]

Hey all,

I'm gonna want to get into reloading very soon. Do you guys care to share any constructive criticism and lemme know what I'm missing?

Cartridges I shoot include:
308
270
6.5 man bun
223
6.5 grendel

I have plenty of accurate match ammo for most my rifles. My 2 bolt grendels are the ones that shoot poorly with factory ammo so I want to start loading grendel ammo.
I am trying to make ammo that will be consistent, hopefully sub MOA. I don't necessarily need sub half MOA out of these rifles. They are hunting rifles and might occasionally plink with them just for fun.

I have:

Equipment -
Rock chucker Supreme
And the dies pictured below

Components -
Varget
Blc2
Ramshot Tac
Plenty of 1x fired hornady brass
New starline brass
Wolf and federal primers small & large
130 AR hybrids
123 SST
123 AMAX
120 AMAX
120 match burners

I need a way to dump powder, a priming tool, maybe some calipers.

Can somebody recommend specific models of these that you have found to like the best or work the best?

What else am I missing?

Left to right:
RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL SEAT 21
LEE 6.5 GRENDEL
RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL FL 21

That is what they say

** edit to add**

I should probably mention, I will probably start with blc2 and Tac using AMAX and SST bullets. Plan is to do OCW but that is later once I've actually loaded some rounds. I'm trying to get set up right now.

 

[straightshooter1]

Hey all,

I'm gonna want to get into reloading very soon. Do you guys care to share any constructive criticism and lemme know what I'm missing?

Cartridges I shoot include:
308
270
6.5 man bun
223
6.5 grendel

I have plenty of accurate match ammo for most my rifles. My 2 bolt grendels are the ones that shoot poorly with factory ammo so I want to start loading grendel ammo.
I am trying to make ammo that will be consistent, hopefully sub MOA. I don't necessarily need sub half MOA out of these rifles. They are hunting rifles and might occasionally plink with them just for fun.

I have:

Equipment -
Rock chucker Supreme
And the dies pictured below

Components -
Varget
Blc2
Ramshot Tac
Plenty of 1x fired hornady brass
New starline brass
Wolf and federal primers small & large
130 AR hybrids
123 SST
123 AMAX
120 AMAX
120 match burners

I need a way to dump powder, a priming tool, maybe some calipers.

Can somebody recommend specific models of these that you have found to like the best or work the best?

What else am I missing?
View attachment 8423243
Left to right:
RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL SEAT 21
LEE 6.5 GRENDEL
RCBS 6.5 GRENDEL FL 21

That is what they say

** edit to add**

I should probably mention, I will probably start with blc2 and Tac using AMAX and SST bullets. Plan is to do OCW but that is later once I've actually loaded some rounds. I'm trying to get set up right now.

Weighing your powder as consistently as possible is the biggest thing you can do towards getting good results from your reloaded cartridges. I've taken factory cartridges and pulled the bullets, weighing the powder from all the cartridge's and dividing the total weight by the number of cartridges, then recharging the cases with that powder in more uniform weights in the cartridges. Also, I made sure all the cartridges were seated the same as one of the originals. The result has been a huge improvement in consistency in MV as well as what I got on paper. The better the scale you use for this, the better the results you'll get. After that, it's more about fine tuning the uniformity of each case.

I use a simple Lee Powder Measure to "dump powder", then I trickle up where my scale will give me a difference just from one granule of powder.

For a priming tool that I feel would work really well for you is the Frankford Arsenal Platinum Priming Tool. You can do all those different cartridges and it's adjustable so you can get proper seating depth when using various cartridges that'll have various primer pocket depths.

For a caliper, I'd recommend a good quality caliper like the Mitutoyo. Of course, there are cheaper calipers, but they tend be difficult to get consistent measurements. I have some cheap one to use when accuracy is not really critical. But the accuracy of my Mitutoyo is important in addition to the time it saves in just taking measurements.

 

[MarkyMark007]

you dont have all new guccy useless reloading stuff, which the most active posters here are shilling.

so you sux!

 

[JerkyFreak]

May want to get Lapua or Peterson brass. Hornady is not the most consistent nrass around.

 

[Gee Kay]

you'll want a reloading manual or ten if you dont already have them. we've all read them from cover to cover, at least i hope people have. that should be your go to when starting out. what i do or someone else does may not be what you want to do. the reloading manuals are there to keep things safe.

not sure if you'll need a different insert for the AMAX, i had to get a different seater insert for the VLD's for my hornady seater, but now i use the forster seater with no issues,

as a powder thrower, i use the rcbs chargemaster lite, used to use the powder thrower that came in the kit, then trickled up
as a primer seater, i use the kn hand primer, used to use the primer seater that came in the kit before wanting something a little better
calipers, i have hornady digital, analog and mitutoyo, started cheap before going expensive. they all do the job
might want to look into a comparitor set also
you'll also want a case trimmer
maybe a stuck case remover, just in case
case lube, cant forget case lube, or a stuck case remover will be used often

 

[VSP968]

I would suggest buying as many reloading manuals that you can get your hands on. They’re mostly written by lawyers but there is invaluable information in them.

The Lyman manuals are especially good for beginners. I’ve been buying them as new editions come out and giving the older ones away to local new reloaders for years.

 

[supercorndogs]

Powder metering kind of depends. If you are using ball powder like blc2 you can get very accurate results just throwing charges with something like the Lee perfect powder measure, or RCBS powder thrower. You can get very accurate laods throwing extruded powder also but it doesn't meter well so it will show up in your ES and SD throwing extruded. Those numbers will start to rear their head past 600y with vertical spread in groups. So if you just hunt with these rifles. You might not care much about .2 or .4 grain spread throwing extruded powders.

You can get a brass priming system for your press or one of the diffrent handprime tools.

You will need a caliper to make sure your 1x brass is not over max trim length. And some sort of trim tool to trim the brass if it is.

You will need a chamfer and debur tool to clean up case mouths.

It is also nice to have a tumbler to clean case lube off full length sized cases. You can wipe it off with a rag though.

 

[MarkyMark007]

I would suggest buying as many reloading manuals that you can get your hands on. They’re mostly written by lawyers but there is invaluable information in them.

View attachment 8423301

The Lyman manuals are especially good for beginners. I’ve been buying them as new editions come out and giving the older ones away to local new reloaders for years.

so what did you learn with all that reloading manuals?

I assume that you learn basics of reloading, not powder charts. So what is so different in every book, that you need 3 editions of same publisher?

 

[Gee Kay]

you'll have to buy them to see what the differences are

reloading is not a guessing game, but theres always trial and the hospital if the oops i fucked up isnt too severe.

 

[redbullitt]

A good enough scale and a way to trickle up to proper weight from a normal powder thrower would be my move. Cost effective and plenty precise.

Dial calipers will do the job just fine too. The rcbs hand primer or the frankford do well. Lyman trickler has served me well for years. Rcbs one is ok too! I've used an old rcbs powder thrower for years too. Works great on ball like your blc2. Less well with varget etc.

 

[spife7980]

Get a charge master, it’s the cheapest reliable way to get into electronic dispensing. And not having to have your time and attention focused on the actual act of weighing powder it’s well worth the could hundred bucks more than manual.

Priming tool, I say whatever you can get with a tray so you’re not handling each primer individually. My lee hand primer was great until it wore in/out enough that it wasn’t able to seat all the way. A bench primer is easier on the grip.

For trimming, go electronic and with a three way trim/chamfer/deburr cutter so you only handle each piece one time instead of 3.

Calipers, Igauging origincal are pretty good and not that expensive, my mitutoyo are nicer feeling, smoother scrolling etc, but they are also a good bit more expensive.

 

[Chris W.]

Do not cheap out on a scale. You will buy an expensive one at some point so may as well save yourself some time and money and buy it now. The FX-8120 is pretty standard. If you want to save some additional time buying the AutoTrickler or SuperTrickler will auto-dispense the powder for you at pretty close to kernel level consistency.

Or if you're handy with 3d printing and electronics you could make your own: https://github.com/eamars/OpenTrickler

A case trimmer is another nice accessory. I actually like the Lyman unit, but the gucci guys in here are big fans of the Giraud or Henderson.

 

[R_A_W]

May want to get Lapua or Peterson brass. Hornady is not the most consistent nrass around.

I always advocate for people to start w/ the cheapest brass they have, put a few reloads on it & then set it aside. New reloaders tend to overwork & over trim brass... but once they've got the hang of things, I definitely agree

@stello1001
I would start by focusing on a single cartridge with 1 powder in 1 brass and 1 or 2 bullets. The more variables a new reloader introduces, the more difficult it is going to be to discover & learn from your mistakes

 

[Maurygold]

you'll have to buy them to see what the differences are

reloading is not a guessing game, but theres always trial and the hospital if the oops i fucked up isnt too severe.

You don’t need to buy them. Most of these books are outdated or the info is available for free online.

Here’s a great video on a good process:


Here’s the hodgdon book reference for loads so you don’t blow your gun apart:

https://hodgdonreloading.com/

 

[supercorndogs]

If you are just hunting and shooting under 400y. You don't need much to make ammo that shoots fine inside that window. Throwing extruded or ball would be fine. Some of Lee kits come with most everything you will need.

The most attractive thing to me about 8208 was it is an extruded powder that throws well. Throwing charges is faster than weighing them for sure.

I shot a lot of 300y groups when i first started relaoding throwing 26.6g of varget with a 55vmax. I was averging 1.7" at 300y with it, with bag and bipod. I shot lots of 400-600y pdogs with that ammo.

 

[stello1001]

So if I have summarized all posts correctly, it seems as if I need the following:

-Powder scale (am looking at the frankford arsenal platinum series)
NOTE: will also look at the chargemaster @spife7980 has recommended
-Powder measure to dump
-Hand priming tool
-Maybe a trickler (I'll be doing ball powders though)
-Hornady one shot
-Case puller (in case i stick a case)
-Chamfer & debur tool
-Trimming tool in case I have case stretch
(I could get the 3 in 1 and do trimming, chamfer & debur all with one tool)
-calipers
-comparator (not entirely sure what this is but I have an idea and am about to go do research)
-a couple manuals won't hurt (although most info is now readily available online)
-I think I'm missing something but don't recall



As per the comment to start with one powder and maybe just maybe 2 bullets. That's probably a good idea.

I think I'll start with:
Ramshot tac
1x fireformed hornady brass
120 amax & 123 amax

I'll save my new Peterson brass for later so I can practice on shitty brass in case I overwork it or fuck it up in the beginning.

 

[spife7980]

-Powder scale (am looking at the frankford arsenal platinum series)
-Powder measure to dump
-Maybe a trickler (I'll be doing ball powders though)
NOTE: will also look at the chargemaster @spife7980 has recommended

If I were throwing ball powder and weighing it I would still want a trickler to make them easier. The chargemaster is a combination of the individual scale, throw and trickler into one.

-comparator (not entirely sure what this is but I have an idea and am about to go do research)

The comparators are really just datums (2 dimensional plane, aka a round hole) that you can mount on your caliper to get a linear measurement on a round angled surface(3 dimensional object).

Here you can see the headspace comparator being used to measure the shoulder

This is what it is measuring

This sort of illustrations headspace which is the distance from the point on the shoulder to the bolt face. When people say headspace in reloading they are meaning the headspace clearance, the space between the shoulder of the brass and the shoulder of the chamber.

As you screw the sizing die down deeper you force the shoulder lower which creates more clearance/empty space between the sized brass and the chamber. Sizing die not deep enough in the press means you feel the shoulder bottom out on the chamber as adequate clearance wasnt created, sizing die too deep and you create excess clearance which leads to excess work on the brass and relatively premature case failure.
Thats why .002 difference between fired and sized is a generally agreed upon happy place, enough to not impede chambering but not so much its loosey goosey.



A similar thing can be done on bullets to measure them down lower on the ogive (curved arc of the bullet nose) away from the meplat (bullet point)

 

[straightshooter1]

So if I have summarized all posts correctly, it seems as if I need the following:

-Powder scale (am looking at the frankford arsenal platinum series)
NOTE: will also look at the chargemaster @spife7980 has recommended
-Powder measure to dump
-Hand priming tool
-Maybe a trickler (I'll be doing ball powders though)
-Hornady one shot
-Case puller (in case i stick a case)
-Chamfer & debur tool
-Trimming tool in case I have case stretch
(I could get the 3 in 1 and do trimming, chamfer & debur all with one tool)
-calipers
-comparator (not entirely sure what this is but I have an idea and am about to go do research)
-a couple manuals won't hurt (although most info is now readily available online)
-I think I'm missing something but don't recall



As per the comment to start with one powder and maybe just maybe 2 bullets. That's probably a good idea.

I think I'll start with:
Ramshot tac
1x fireformed hornady brass
120 amax & 123 amax

I'll save my new Peterson brass for later so I can practice on shitty brass in case I overwork it or fuck it up in the beginning.

Hmmm???

I didn't see what you'll be using to clean your brass. Any wet tumbler (no SS pins) will do for most really dirty brass. But if you're brass is ejected into mud and dirt that get inside the cases, then SS pins will help clean that out. Otherwise, a good vibrating tumble is good. . . especially if you're using medium grain rice.

Because I feel is always a good idea to know where your lands is with regard to how your seating your bullets, I think its a good idea to get the Hornady headspace comparator in addition to the comparator for measuring cartridge BTO's (Base to Ogive):

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-kit

Also, an Overall Length Gauge:

Hornady Lock-N-Load Overall Length Ga Bolt Action

The Hornady Lock-N-Load Overall Length Gauge is one of the best kept secrets to accurate reloading. This tool allows reloaders to quickly and easily...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[R_A_W]

NOTE: will also look at the chargemaster @spife7980 has recommended

Definitely do this, it will save you time and you can skip these:

-Powder scale (am looking at the frankford arsenal platinum series)
-Powder measure to dump
-Maybe a trickler (I'll be doing ball powders though)

You should definitely get the Hornady ogive & headspace comparators and a dry media tumbler mentioned by @spife7980 @straightshooter1

 

[R_A_W]

2 other things

I've never needed a stuck case removal tool, just use enough lube & keep your sizing die clean

You don't have to buy a media separator, but they're <$50 and do save a LOT of time

 

[supercorndogs]

If I were throwing ball powder and weighing it I would still want a trickler to make them easier. The chargemaster is a combination of the individual scale, throw and trickler into one.

The comparators are really just datums (2 dimensional plane, aka a round hole) that you can mount on your caliper to get a linear measurement on a round angled surface(3 dimensional object).

Here you can see the headspace comparator being used to measure the shoulder
View attachment 8424196
This is what it is measuring
View attachment 8424197
This sort of illustrations headspace which is the distance from the point on the shoulder to the bolt face. When people say headspace in reloading they are meaning the headspace clearance, the space between the shoulder of the brass and the shoulder of the chamber.
View attachment 8424199
As you screw the sizing die down deeper you force the shoulder lower which creates more clearance/empty space between the sized brass and the chamber. Sizing die not deep enough in the press means you feel the shoulder bottom out on the chamber as adequate clearance wasnt created, sizing die too deep and you create excess clearance which leads to excess work on the brass and relatively premature case failure.
Thats why .002 difference between fired and sized is a generally agreed upon happy place, enough to not impede chambering but not so much its loosey goosey.



A similar thing can be done on bullets to measure them down lower on the ogive (curved arc of the bullet nose) away from the meplat (bullet point)
View attachment 8424198

Ball powder throws inside .1g easy. I.E. the dump is proabaly as accurate as a chargeMaster.

I do like having a chargemaster and use it regularly depending on the ammo I am loading. Or if I am loading an OCW tests it makes fast and easy.

 

[R_A_W]

looks like he's using Varget too though

 

[stello1001]

If I were throwing ball powder and weighing it I would still want a trickler to make them easier. The chargemaster is a combination of the individual scale, throw and trickler into one.

The comparators are really just datums (2 dimensional plane, aka a round hole) that you can mount on your caliper to get a linear measurement on a round angled surface(3 dimensional object).

Here you can see the headspace comparator being used to measure the shoulder
View attachment 8424196
This is what it is measuring
View attachment 8424197
This sort of illustrations headspace which is the distance from the point on the shoulder to the bolt face. When people say headspace in reloading they are meaning the headspace clearance, the space between the shoulder of the brass and the shoulder of the chamber.
View attachment 8424199
As you screw the sizing die down deeper you force the shoulder lower which creates more clearance/empty space between the sized brass and the chamber. Sizing die not deep enough in the press means you feel the shoulder bottom out on the chamber as adequate clearance wasnt created, sizing die too deep and you create excess clearance which leads to excess work on the brass and relatively premature case failure.
Thats why .002 difference between fired and sized is a generally agreed upon happy place, enough to not impede chambering but not so much its loosey goosey.



A similar thing can be done on bullets to measure them down lower on the ogive (curved arc of the bullet nose) away from the meplat (bullet point)
View attachment 8424198

Ahh, yes! This is what a comparator is. I knew I knew what it was I just couldn't entirely remember haha. Definitely a good tool to have.

I can use the method of letting the bolt free fall on an unprimed case and feel for resistance to identify when I'm touching the lands and then use comparator to confirm consistency across loaded cases. This would be one use for it, right?

And then of course, a dry tumbler and media is what I had forgotten. I don't entirely think I'll require wet tumbling.

 

[straightshooter1]

2 other things

I've never needed a stuck case removal tool, just use enough lube & keep your sizing die clean

You don't have to buy a media separator, but they're <$50 and do save a LOT of time

Because I like to inspect my brass as I remove cleaning media from the cases, I simply use a small bucket and a pan with slots, pour the contents of the tumbler in and then empty a handful of cases at a time. When I see any media in the primer pockets I'll just pluck it out with a small screwdriver and once and a wile I'll see a sliver in a flash hole that needs to be push out. Whatever media you use, it's always a good idea to inspect them before loading.

 

[supercorndogs]

I would just dump varget too unless I am making ammo to shoot past 500y or so. For normal hunting ammo .3 or .4g spread is going to be fine as long your not on the edge of where the POI shifts as you work up in charge weight.

 

[straightshooter1]

Ahh, yes! This is what a comparator is. I knew I knew what it was I just couldn't entirely remember haha. Definitely a good tool to have.

I can use the method of letting the bolt free fall on an unprimed case and feel for resistance to identify when I'm touching the lands and then use comparator to confirm consistency across loaded cases. This would be one use for it, right?

And then of course, a dry tumbler and media is what I had forgotten. I don't entirely think I'll require wet tumbling.

It's often a matter of preference, but one of the tools I use often during case prep is my RCBS headspace gauge to check my cases when I start sizing to be sure I'm getting the shoulder bump I'm after. I have a Hornady headspace comparator too, which shows me numbers from my caliper, but this gauge/Mic is just more convenient and faster.

Precision Mic | RCBS

RCBS Precision Mics determine chamber headspace and bullet seat depth by measuring from the datum point on the case shoulder to the base of the case.

www.rcbs.com

 

[stello1001]

I would just dump varget too unless I am making ammo to shoot past 500y or so. For normal hunting ammo .3 or .4g spread is going to be fine as long your not on the edge of where the POI shifts as you work up in charge weight.

I'm not opposed to dumping varget on whatever reloading setup and tools I end up with. I just want to start loading grendel first and I know blc2 or tac are better suited powders for said cartridge.

I have varget for my 223 and 308, which I have plenty of good match ammo for. Hopefully by the time I've shot all that ammo, I've probably already upgraded and bought more or better tools.

 

[spife7980]

I can use the method of letting the bolt free fall on an unprimed case and feel for resistance to identify when I'm touching the lands and then use comparator to confirm consistency across loaded cases. This would be one use for it, right?

And then of course, a dry tumbler and media is what I had forgotten. I don't entirely think I'll require wet tumbling.

I use the stripped bolt method to find my lands.
Using the bullet comparator is how I assign a number to that point. From there you can measure to find how much jam or jump your seating depth your loaded rounds are and go from there. Its also how you can tell consistency across cases, yes.