- Thread starter Milf Dots
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Should we pitch in and buy him another $149 Ballistic Advantage barrel, or no?
So, the 2 main questions I have are, who the fuck is this discount Willie Wonka stunt double, and why should we give a damn what he thinks about anything? Judging by his target, he needs to be practicing more, and talking into a camera less...
Also, I found it hilarious, and [not so] surprising that he admits he likes the complementary reach-arounds he got from BCM better. Well gee, I wonder why he would say such a thing...
But I find it comforting that he assures us it's absolutely not because he's admittedly already bias towards Aero, and because the BCM uppers were free or anything. Sure thing guy...Whatever you say. His fake attempt at transparency was more transparent than the wanted it to be. 
Also, I found it hilarious, and [not so] surprising that he admits he likes the complementary reach-arounds he got from BCM better. Well gee, I wonder why he would say such a thing...
But I find it comforting that he assures us it's absolutely not because he's admittedly already bias towards Aero, and because the BCM uppers were free or anything. Sure thing guy...Whatever you say. His fake attempt at transparency was more transparent than the wanted it to be. 
Didn't watch the video, but do you really not know who Ben Stoeger is?So, the 2 main questions I have are, who the fuck is this discount Willie Wonka stunt double, and why should we give a damn what he thinks about anything? Judging by his target, he needs to be practicing more, and talking into a camera less...
Also, I found it hilarious, and [not so] surprising that he admits he likes the complementary reach-arounds he got from BCM better. Well gee, I wonder why he would say such a thing...
Nope, never heard of him. I try not to watch guntubers, 99% of them have turned into big-name shills with 5 minutes of demonstration and 15 minutes of talking about their sponsors.
So put a White Oak barrel in it and stop Whining.
A pistol guy talking rifles…you probably do t need to give a damn.
He’s a very very accomplished action pistol competitor.
Ben Stoeger - Wikipedia
My guess is he’s dabbling in 2 or 3 gun as well.
Barrels getting worn out in 5K rounds at his likely firing schedule should be no surprise. Then again he’s a pistol guy so it probably doesn’t occur to him.
Maybe if we get enough homeless people to chip-in we could get him a new Bear Creek Arsenal barrel for it...
For what he’s doing with it a Bear Creek would probably be fine. As long as it actually ran.
Dude uses guns as a bullet hose. As long as it’s capable of staying in an IPSC “A” zone reliably at typical go fast match ranges it’s all he needs.
Dude uses guns as a bullet hose. As long as it’s capable of staying in an IPSC “A” zone reliably at typical go fast match ranges it’s all he needs.
This all makes sense now. That's why I've never heard of him. Couldn't care less about pistol comps.He’s a very very accomplished action pistol competitor.
Ben Stoeger - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
My guess is he’s dabbling in 2 or 3 gun as well.
Barrels getting worn out in 5K rounds at his likely firing schedule should be no surprise. Then again he’s a pistol guy so it probably doesn’t occur to him.
And yes, this also makes sense why he has no clue that at the high-volume rapid firing schedules that he's probably training at for 2 or 3-gun, then a barrel can definitely wear out in 5K rounds.
Stoeger drama, and there's a lot of it, is like seeing a semi getting high centered at a railroad crossing. Move back a safe distance and enjoy the train wreck.
I think him and old tits McGee are divorced now.
So she’s open for business.
So she’s open for business.
I still laugh when I remember hearing a precision rifle competitor call USPSA competitors “Seven Yard Heroes.”
-Stan
-Stan
She probably told him they should both see other men...
No the replacement is pretty hot too.
Ben's an asshole, but in his defense, I don't think he'd argue the point, he'd probably agree. So at least you know what you're getting.
Ben's an asshole, but in his defense, I don't think he'd argue the point, he'd probably agree. So at least you know what you're getting.
This seems to be a counterpoint to those who think a nitrided barrel will last just as long as chrome-lined. Of course, people can factor in the time and cost of rebarreling versus cost of spent ammo.
Anyway, Ben Stoeger likes to stir up trouble but, reading between the lines, he always provides the facts.
Anyway, Ben Stoeger likes to stir up trouble but, reading between the lines, he always provides the facts.
Being a shit-stirring troll doesn’t make you wrong.
So I bought a yugo and it's not a Ferrari. Wah wa wah.
As far as I could tell, his only comment was that the barrel wore out quicker than he thought it should which was 5k rounds
That would be roughly 10 days of normal CQM training at 500rds/day. You could easily burn 5k in 2-3 courses.
I always try to work in night fire in CQM courses, so you might burn 500 Day 1, 200-300 Night 1, and 500 on Day 2. That’s only a 2-day course.
5000 rounds isn’t squat really. I’ve seen Bushmaster barrels with 2” of throat gone with well over 24,000 through the pipe, still cutting nice clean holes on-target. They were chrome-lined of course. The rest of the critical parts were replaced with TDP stuff, not factory Bushampster.
You start to see a big separator between the Vismod guns that satisfy some people’s desire to own an AR-15-like object, and those that eat high volume and like it like TDP guns do.
The mass-produced nitride barrels at low cost from a lot of shops are meant more for the 2-3 weekend/year plinker, not for running through constant CQM burn-downs.
It’s one of the reasons I can easily tell people to just go with a BCM if they want something that will last, will be reliable day-after-day, and have good life to the pipe. They’re more affordable in the long run.
$279 BCM barrel vs one of the base tier nitride on lower grade steels will go at least 4x the distance in round count.
Only wealthy men can afford cheap barrels if you actually want to shoot.
Ben Stoeger has been shooting high volume for the last 2 decades, including 3-Gun. I think what he’s pointing out is that unlike other carbines he has that will eat 20k rounds and not flinch, this one started key-holing at 5k.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he put 80,000 rounds a year through AR-15s.
He broke two bolts previously too.
I'll bet dollars to donuts that if you put Ben Stoeger behind a precision rifle he will be way way more capable than you think right off the bat, and would probably be crushing in PRS and NRL in very short order if he decided to train for it. He might be an ass at times, but the dude can make bullets go where he wants them too; his basic fundamentals are fucking locked on.
Well there’s a lot of USPSA guys I’ve seen who definitely fit that description.
True, I believe he said it took about 20,000 rounds to break the two of them but wasn't very clear beyond that. In one of the earlier videos he mentions the barrel that was keyholing and said it had 5-10,000 rounds on it. That later got revised to 5,000 rounds apparently but he also previously stated that he doesn't keep good round counts so I'm not sure which to believe. After I watched a few of his videos I generally found his statements to be vague other than he says some stuff broke and Aero is garbage just to ruffle feathers.
He's seems like the anti-gear guy, he has and uses a lot of shit but doesn't know much about it.
That's probably true. I took one of his classes a couple of years ago back when he was sponsored by Tanfo. I shot his Limited gun and it was a POS. He didn't care how it felt, just that it fired reliably and was moderately accurate.
This is what I gathered just from this 1 video.
His “drug dealer” reference reminded me of Bob Saget in Half Baked…
I don’t know Stoeger. Never took a class from him. Never shot with him. That said, I’d put down real money that he could walk circles around everyone in this thread, in the disciplines that he shoots.
Stoeger doesn’t strike me as the typical gear queer we see on SH. A gun is a tool. And, he’ll beat you with a race gun, or a stock gun. Without watching the vid, I’d wager all he’s saying is that the aero isn’t the right/best tool for this job, when others (BCM?) are available.
This whole thread kind of reminds me of when I was a kid and had some friends that were in to baseball and baseball cards. One of them was trying to make a trade. The interaction went sort of like this…
“Hey, I’ll trade you this card for that card”
“That’s a _____ card. He sucks.”
I’m minding my own business thinking “Bitch, he’s on a baseball card. Your ass can’t make it around the bases without two rest stops and a pinch runner.”
Stoeger doesn’t strike me as the typical gear queer we see on SH. A gun is a tool. And, he’ll beat you with a race gun, or a stock gun. Without watching the vid, I’d wager all he’s saying is that the aero isn’t the right/best tool for this job, when others (BCM?) are available.
This whole thread kind of reminds me of when I was a kid and had some friends that were in to baseball and baseball cards. One of them was trying to make a trade. The interaction went sort of like this…
“Hey, I’ll trade you this card for that card”
“That’s a _____ card. He sucks.”
I’m minding my own business thinking “Bitch, he’s on a baseball card. Your ass can’t make it around the bases without two rest stops and a pinch runner.”
I gotta agree with this comment...the idea that because hes only a competitive pistol shooter, must mean he's some kind of amateur in other disciplines? Thats hilarious.
Fundamentals are fundamentals. Anyone capable of competing at his level, is likely to be above-average to begin with, in another discipline.
I remember watching pros vs. joes too...and it was odd how pretty much any professional level athlete on the show embarrassed the groups of average joes they picked up..regardless of how athletic or skilled they believed themselves to be.
I also dont understand the odd defense of Aero just to try to make the guy look bad..Im a fan of their products too....but its a given that their BA barrels are a budget product..built to a low price point.
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Depends on the individual and their willingness to get into the nuances of the discipline. Some can not make the transfer of skills/fundamentals too...it isn't a given.
Depends on the individual, sure I'll agree with that. We're not speaking in generalities here though. The individual discussed is one who's already a competitive and top ranked shooter. I'd bet a lot of money on the fact that if he's shot out a barrel, its beyond discussing that he's willing to get into the "nuances" of a rifle. The training available to him (and the resources) open up doors that likely make typical training plateaus and roadblocks a non-issue. His learning curve is going to be shorter than any random guy you'd pull out of a range.
Ben Stoeger has no problem getting other top ranked shooters and instructors to drill with him, give him the time of day, or private instruction if necessary.
Joe weekender typically has to save his resources and do one single out of state shooting trip a year.
We still cant get a majority of shooters to get past 3 shot "groups".
The overwhelming general public is definitely not worried about the nuances of anything remotely close to precision, to make it an arguable point.
Stoeger is a well respected instructor in his own right. Unlike pretty much everyone in this thread, shooting is his day job…
Thats an odd perspective to have from someone participating in a discussed on here called "Best AR manufactures"
no lol, actually it's a perfect comment for this
Its odd to me, because that statement either makes him a hypocrite, or by his own admittance, a poor "carpenter".
This seems like an attempt to find some specific narrow window that he might not be above-average in, as a gotcha.
Similarly, you could hand a pistol to the majority of shooters at a range, and put them in a match and they'd probably be well below 50% as well. Or limit it to some very specific criteria, like bullseye, which hardly anyone actually practices for, and I bet most of the guys would score laughably low.
To argue that a professional driver doesnt know "shit" about cars outside of basics, is hilarious. I've been to a track with my last Porsche. It was easy to spot newer drivers, and more experienced ones, and I guarantee that you'd lose a LOT of money betting on the experienced ones "not knowing shit" about their car.
Truth.
I'm surprised the Aero nitride barrels only go 5k-10k rounds though, people go "oh it's cheap" but then I've seen other cheap ass barrels go a loooooong time. Del Ton used to have a chrome lined one, PSA pistol kits seem to do pretty well, that polish guy who does the AK videos has beat on a few PSAs with 5000 round tests and they weren't keyholing.
You jumped from not knowing anything other than “the basics” to rebuilding an engine? That’s quite a leap in moving the goal post for what already was a pretty weak argument in the first place.
I’ll place my belief in a top ranked
competitive shooter being above average in another discipline long before I believe the majority of no name guys here post that they shoot half moa every time they go out.
What other problems has he had from aero other than the barrel wearing out faster than he thought it should?
I think you’re missing the point that someone who has the fundamentals, discipline, knowledge, and funds to become one of the best in the world at a shooting sport would have a much shorter path to competence at another than the average joe.
He may not step in day one and blow everyone away, but in a month he’d be where most people are in a year or two.
I dont see this as a fight, I just dont think you're approaching this from an unbiased perspective. Every single person here, who is acting like Stoeger is some knuckle dragging simpleton when it comes to rifles, could have easily posted that feedback on his youtube video, directly to him.
Instead, they chose to do so in a forum, where he's specifically not part of the conversation. That in and of itself is telling. I dont see anyone issuing him a challenge either, regardless of how "below average" they keep saying he'd be with a carbine.
What do you consider the equivalent to engine rebuilding for carbines? Should Stoeger be expected to know how to run his own reamers and produce quality barrels out of blanks, or just rebarrel the aero AR when the barrel is shot out? Is it logical that professional shooters (especially ones who are paid to teach as well) are more likely going grab another rifle, instead of wasting their time on rebarreling what was a budget choice in the first place?
I find it odd overall that people are directing their anger at the fact that he called out a low quality product, as opposed to the product being low quality in the first place.
The PX is littered with ballistic advantage barrels. It sure as shit isnt because people love them so much that they decided to spread the love by distributing them to others. I say that as someone who owns both a BA barrel, and quite a few other Aero parts too. I dont see anyone here dumping their favorite brand to support Ballistic Advantage/Aero in reaction to this. I bet they would react differently if he shit on BCM, Noveske, Larue, Geissele etc
When was the barrel last cleaned, I have found that a few of my barrels (usually Brux) cause key-holing when they are getting pretty dirty even though the last 1,500 rounds of the same loading. distance, etc. did not keyhole. The first time the keyholing raised its ugly head like that I was surprised given the volume of shots that did not keyhole and was very happy to see the keyholing go away after a sound cleaning. The number of rounds between cleaning and keyholing was upwards of 400 which usually did not cause a problem.
