I currently have an 20 inch .224 Valkyrie that I use for hogs. I don't hunt them very often, but I'm looking for a different upper or new rifle to use with my supressor. Since I have the supressor I would like a 16 inch for maneuverability. So what caliber would be best? Also recoil plays a factor since my elderly dad will be shooting it as well. TIA
- Thread starter Bleakney
- Start date
What caliber is your suppressor? No point suggesting calibers larger than you suppressor bore unless you're going to buy another. Why not just a 16" valkyrie?
6.8 SPC will check your boxes. Especially on recoil and follow up shots. Since you already have a suppressor I recommend going for a 2 stamp rifle and having Bison Armory put together a 10.5 or 11.5” barrel upper. Just make sure to add the AGB to the build. And SBR the lower for the 2nd stamp. I run the 10.5s….and they are highly accurate and reliable. BA can also do a longer barrel if you do not wish to SBR your lower.
Have killed a metric butt ton of hawgs with a 6.5 Grendel. Light recoil let’s you stay on the group and 123 grain bullets are a deathray.
Here is the barrel, he might have a bolt also. https://www.blackstonearms.com/AR-Performance-6-8-16-3R-11-Twist-Scout-Barrel-p/arp6816sct.htm
A 16” .224 Valkyrie has the same performance of a 16” 5.56 with a 60gr at over 3000fps. A 14.5” 5.56 will shoot 62gr M855 at 2900fps. At first, I was thinking of staying with .224 Valkyrie due to how cheap it is, but the performance just isn’t there for shorter barrels.
I will say that from 12” Grendel, the factory Federal 90gr TNT is doing 2698fps for me. Biggest benefit for 6.5 Grendel is there are 124 factory loads, the latest being the 100gr ELD-VT from Hornady.
The cartridges with optimum bore ratio will spit out higher projectile weights at much higher velocities than the tighter-bore cartridges.
6.5Grendel if you’re only wanting a new upper with light recoil. My dad is 73 and hunts with a 16” Grendel. I haven’t seen him use anything else in the last 7 years. It pretty much retired his 308’s and 30-06’s. His has a Wilson Combat barrel and shoots the Hornady Black 123 ELD slightly under moa for 5rd groups.
The Grendel smashes pigs and southeastern white tails out to about 400 yards. Ammo is cheaper and easier to find around where we live in Ga than 6ARC and 6.8SPC.
The Grendel smashes pigs and southeastern white tails out to about 400 yards. Ammo is cheaper and easier to find around where we live in Ga than 6ARC and 6.8SPC.
Small frame= 6.8 SPC
Large frame= 7.62 Nato
I use a Large frame and I don't see the need to change to anything else....
Large frame= 7.62 Nato
I use a Large frame and I don't see the need to change to anything else....
6.5 Grendel. If you're looking at 16 inch barrels, Sixfiveoutfitters.com will get you what you're looking for at a price that won't break the bank. If you really want to go all in, Precision Firearms.
Depends on range. I usually walk in with thermal and smack down with 300 blk. 120 grain whatever good round I can get my paws on, 12" barrel Bcm with sandman s. Works great although off hand I’m rarely shooting over 100 yds. Them pigs is fast. 
-plenty of calibers to skin this piggy with however. If shooting from range something else probably.
-plenty of calibers to skin this piggy with however. If shooting from range something else probably.I use this 6.8 for Florida hogs inside 200 meters. It is pretty good for paper punching @ 500 meters with simple box ammunition.
I've shot 5 good sized boars in the last two weeks with the standard 16" 223 with 62gr Federal Fusion. Drops them in their tracks every time for me, so no need to over complicate it. I run into coyotes a lot, so I don't want to change calibers and shed a ton of velocity for shots that could come up at distance. The 6arc running the new 80gr ELD-VT is an interesting option though.
I shoot a lot of pigs. In the small frame AR category I have primarily used 5.56 and 300 Blackout. I have a buddy who rides and dies with his 6.5 Grendel. We have never really compared small frames results but after several years of hunting I find that they all work about the same with no real difference. I have seen all three stone drop pigs and all three score solid hits and the pigs run for a 1/4 mile.
If you want something that will just drop them, I think that you need to go to large frame. I can't recall any pig ever shaking off the NATO 7.62.
I usually hunt with 5.56 77 grain. My range limiting factor in terms of getting clean kills is actually my optics. We scan for pigs with either a thermal monocular or nods. Most of us shoot them with some kind of dedicated thermal optic like a thermal scope or a good thermal clipon in front of a day optic (I prefer this because of versatility). With my setup, I can detect heat sigs at great distance, I don't get positive target id with the handheld until around 300 yards. I bring all this up because with my small frame setup, the 5.56 is plenty deadly at 300 yards and in.
If you want something that will just drop them, I think that you need to go to large frame. I can't recall any pig ever shaking off the NATO 7.62.
I usually hunt with 5.56 77 grain. My range limiting factor in terms of getting clean kills is actually my optics. We scan for pigs with either a thermal monocular or nods. Most of us shoot them with some kind of dedicated thermal optic like a thermal scope or a good thermal clipon in front of a day optic (I prefer this because of versatility). With my setup, I can detect heat sigs at great distance, I don't get positive target id with the handheld until around 300 yards. I bring all this up because with my small frame setup, the 5.56 is plenty deadly at 300 yards and in.
You're looking for penetration and decent energy transfer. A lot of subsonics don't do as well on larger swine. 5.56 even does fine with the right projectile.
The reality is that no caliber is going to negate good shot placement. You have to put the rounds where they need to go. The right ammo choice only helps after that. I've seen pigs that were shot in the lugs and shoulders move a long ways after.
I typically aim higher in the neck or behind the ear, and with enough penetration, they don't move far if at all after that.
The reality is that no caliber is going to negate good shot placement. You have to put the rounds where they need to go. The right ammo choice only helps after that. I've seen pigs that were shot in the lugs and shoulders move a long ways after.
I typically aim higher in the neck or behind the ear, and with enough penetration, they don't move far if at all after that.
Kill between 60-80 pigs a year for the last 20+ years. Have seen perfect shot 308 and 300 win mag to boiler room run 800+m out of a field. Neck shots if want them to drop. Everything else on running pigs comes down to money for me. 5.56 is a heck of a lot cheaper to miss with (and you will), and does good enough when you connect. 70gr Barnes probably works best for me, but cheap 77gr works good enough. Primarily out of an 11in AR and ranges from 30-300m.
As a nerd who keeps data on all of his kills... I absolutely will recommend a .308.
There is no free lunch in anything. The .308 will generate more recoil, and be ~1.5lbs heavier to carry. I use a three chamber brake, so the recoil is really no different than the 6.8/Grendel guys who run suppressed...but the tradeoff is that I have to wear muffs and I hunt alone.
I can get more running pigs on the ground with 30 cent .308 bullets than I can with 80 cent 6.8/6.5 bullets. It just is what it is, and more related probably to energy dump than anything else. YMMV, but my data is conclusive to me and my sample size larger than most. Ironically, the .308 is cheaper for me to reload and hunt with.
If you subscribe to the ideas of hydrostatic and hydraulic shock, the .308 will give you more of what you're looking for over small frame AR cartridges too. If you think that those are hogwash, then disregard completely.
The 6.8 and Grendel guys argue amongst themselves a lot. Having killed 100+ pigs with each, I find their performance on game to be virtually identical. It will come down to bullet selection (because shot placement on runners is a wish) on which does better for you. I see zero reason to switch if you have one or the other. I have both. I like both. Both are extremely underrated.
I've killed 50+ with a 5.56. It does just as well as anything on opening shots where you can pick your placement. It does comparatively suck on runners though, as you will lose an additional 15% or so over the other cartridges I mentioned. I've put some monsters down with the 5.56 though.
Adding to the confusion are the heavily edited videos that fload around the internet. Watch the hunting videos where the editing has a lot of hard cuts between scenes when there are still pigs in the field, but you jump to the next scene...that is because either the guy missed 6 shots in a row, or he tagged the same hog poorly 6 times and it got away. If that guy is trying to promote something, realize that you are getting a heavily edited version. But it is the internet...nobody misses, and everyone does it better than you.
Oh, and I've found that killing 8-10 hogs with a particular combo can actually be pretty misleading. You might have a streak of fantastic luck. All of a sudden hogs 15-20 are made out of Kevlar and you're left scratching your head.
There is no free lunch in anything. The .308 will generate more recoil, and be ~1.5lbs heavier to carry. I use a three chamber brake, so the recoil is really no different than the 6.8/Grendel guys who run suppressed...but the tradeoff is that I have to wear muffs and I hunt alone.
I can get more running pigs on the ground with 30 cent .308 bullets than I can with 80 cent 6.8/6.5 bullets. It just is what it is, and more related probably to energy dump than anything else. YMMV, but my data is conclusive to me and my sample size larger than most. Ironically, the .308 is cheaper for me to reload and hunt with.
If you subscribe to the ideas of hydrostatic and hydraulic shock, the .308 will give you more of what you're looking for over small frame AR cartridges too. If you think that those are hogwash, then disregard completely.
The 6.8 and Grendel guys argue amongst themselves a lot. Having killed 100+ pigs with each, I find their performance on game to be virtually identical. It will come down to bullet selection (because shot placement on runners is a wish) on which does better for you. I see zero reason to switch if you have one or the other. I have both. I like both. Both are extremely underrated.
I've killed 50+ with a 5.56. It does just as well as anything on opening shots where you can pick your placement. It does comparatively suck on runners though, as you will lose an additional 15% or so over the other cartridges I mentioned. I've put some monsters down with the 5.56 though.
Adding to the confusion are the heavily edited videos that fload around the internet. Watch the hunting videos where the editing has a lot of hard cuts between scenes when there are still pigs in the field, but you jump to the next scene...that is because either the guy missed 6 shots in a row, or he tagged the same hog poorly 6 times and it got away. If that guy is trying to promote something, realize that you are getting a heavily edited version. But it is the internet...nobody misses, and everyone does it better than you.
Oh, and I've found that killing 8-10 hogs with a particular combo can actually be pretty misleading. You might have a streak of fantastic luck. All of a sudden hogs 15-20 are made out of Kevlar and you're left scratching your head.
I agree, I have given up on small frames and I'm switching to the .308.
Responses here will likely vary with personal preference. All of them listed will do the job, we hunt heavily in south Texas with thermal with most shots being 100 yds or less. Black Hills 77 TMK or a 300BO 110 TTSX is the standard we've settled on. All gas guns, 308 at times but more for a change than anything else.
Nice, what round and at what range do you think you tagged them at? Recover any of the projectiles?
I have a AR in 450 Bushmaster with a suppressor I use for Arkansas hogs. SOB will kill werewolves. Drops them in their tracks.
I ran into my first situation the other night where a cartridge like the 450BM or 50 Beowulf etc... would have been beneficial. Boar in THICK brush. Tried to thread a 6.8 in there, but the bullet deflected a bit low and was coming apart already when it hit him. He ran about 100 yards and I could hear him thrashing in the brush.
I actually made my way in to get him (stupid idea when you're alone at night) and had to finish him off at a very close range. Had I backed out he would have laid there and died by morning (I had done some decent circulatory damage).
Usually you want something with decent capacity and fairly flat trajectory in dealing with running hogs on open ground. The 450 class offers neither of these...plus the cost of ammo/components. However they do offer benefits from time to time.
I actually made my way in to get him (stupid idea when you're alone at night) and had to finish him off at a very close range. Had I backed out he would have laid there and died by morning (I had done some decent circulatory damage).
Usually you want something with decent capacity and fairly flat trajectory in dealing with running hogs on open ground. The 450 class offers neither of these...plus the cost of ammo/components. However they do offer benefits from time to time.
Like any tool, the 450 has it's advantages and disadvantages. Just play into the strengths.
Congratulations on your hogs. Please do not take what I am about to say as an attack or criticism, because they are not. I think you might find that when the pigs get 200+ pounds larger than the juveniles that you harvested, that a small cartridge like the 5.7 is an extremely optimistic choice.
I've had two boars come back at me over the years. Both were taken with a 5.56, and the second being the reason why I moved up in terminal energy. Boar # 2 was shot at 132 yards in the chest cavity ("traditional" placement) and by the time he slid to a stop at 25 yards from me he had taken another 7 hits (I fired 11 times, hit 8). I had broken both front shoulders and could count five impacts in his chest. He was ~215lbs and had 2+" cutters. I was actually on my place, but about a 600 yard walk from my truck. Not good for survival should I get my leg ripped open.
Bullet was a Mk 318 Mod 0, and I'd killed several boars larger than that with it already. Problem is that those were all perfect placement. It's the imperfect placement that'll get you in trouble in a hurry.
I wish you many more fine years of pig blasting, and I hope you never run into a situation like I did.
Agree.
It is a perfect cartridge for hunting a known distance over a feeder in cover, where 1-2 shots is all you'll probably get off before the pigs are out of sight. That is its niche.
For dudes trying to hunt open fields and eradicate as many pigs as possible in their 1-200 yard run back to cover it is surpassed by most other choices.
Don't hunt over a feeder, just try to catch them where clear shots are available. Never was after quantity, just meat for the freezer. then the grill!
A great t example of why more than one cartridge can be "the best" choice for different hunters. Best of luck to you Sir!
Usually I'm hunting at night with a thermal from an elevated platform looking out over a field with max shot of 400 yards and avg distance of 150 yards. I currently use a 22 inch 6.5 Grendel, silencerco Omega with a Trijicon Reap2 IR35 on a tripod and a 384 thermal scanner. I used to use Hornady 123 SST's but I switched to Cavity Back 118's (Took a deer with them and were extremely impressed) at 2560fps and will be using them for the first real hog and coyote hunt in a few weeks. I use a 18 inch Proof CF Grendel and March 1-10 for a lighter daytime walking around rifle.
I moved to Arkansas from Iowa a few years ago and deer hunting then wouldn't allow bottlenecked rifle cartridges, so the 450 was the choice over shotguns. I bought a 600 rounds at Scheels during a sale and got and amazing price for them along with the gun. With my ATN Thermal, it's been a reliable gun so I just adapted my hog tactics to utilize it. The laws have since changed up there, but since the land is so flat, I'd be hesitant to use anything that had a long distance reach. Shooting a farmers cow with an errant round is definitely frowned upon. Inside 200 yards they are deadly if on target.
I think the biggest factor in the what caliber question, besides distance, is where you intend to shoot the critters. Pretty much any of the calibers discussed here are effective if delivered to the ear/neck. The difference will be if for heart/lung shots, where hide thickness, bone deflection, penetration depth, wound channel, etc. become factors in whether or not you put them down or they run off. Also important if you hunt for the meat, not so much for eradication.
That video of those hunters who were run down and torn apart by the huge sounder of hogs is a great reminder that they are dangerous game, not just targets.
For a cartridge consideration, that steers me in the direction of wanting magazine capacity and quick kill terminal performance, with a quick-handling carbine or rifle. Reliability under stress is also another major factor.
I don’t care what chambering is selected, it makes sense to work-out all your magazines and ammo to ensure they run reliably through the gun.
It has taken 67 years of magazine development in the AR-15 to get it where it is with 5.56, and we’re still not done. AR-10 has been 69 years, and it hasn’t received anywhere near the same attention and testing as the 5.56.
The improved performance cartridges that have come along over the past 21 years in the AR-15 are still undergoing magazine development, often without anyone taking overall ownership of the firearm, barrel extension, chambering, ammunition, and magazines.
It’s why I do what I do when assembling an AR-15, which looks nothing like how I used to do it 20 years ago and prior.
40gr max. Range was probably 20-25 yards. Jumped out of a utv and let em have it. The blonde spotted one I doubble tapped in the side of the head a neck, then started shooting into the group with a lot of hits. They ran into a briar thicket and couldn't get to em. But could see at least 2 more back in the brush on their sides.
