Best barrel length

[MDStroup]

After deciding I wanted to build a tactical style bolt action rifle I went about looking what rounds would suit my needs the best. I noticed that none of the information on the rounds I was looking up mentioned the barrel length that would get most performance out of that round or was mixed counter active info. This gun will be used mostly for long range target shooting. So if you have any information on this subject please post. Here are the rounds I was looking at :
.30-06
.300 win mag
7mm rem mag
7mm rem ultra may
.270 win
.260 rem
6.5 creedmoore
8mm
(any other suggestions for long range calibers are welcome)

 

[areaone]

Re: Best barrel length

6.5x284

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Best barrel length

For .260 24" is adequate, but maybe not ideal. I use 28" 1:8"; and can get by with less-than-maximum loads, which I think could help prolong bore life.

I notice you didn't list the .280 Rem, which is essentially 7mm-'06 with a (very) slightly taller shoulder. 7mm bullets have come of age for LR lately, and the .280 can probably reach 1000yd supersonic with anything from about 150gr on up. H4350 and H4831SC are good propellents. I suggest a barrel length of at least 24" with a 1:9" twist for bullet weights of up to 168gr. Longer than 24" is better with this chambering too. I find this chambering to be relatively easy to find accuracy with load development. Recoil is not insubstantial, but it's better than a lot of the ones you mentioned, and bore life should be better too. Recoil with the .30-'06 and heavier bullets exceeds my idea of reasonable. I would consider the .280 to be about the hottest chambering I'd be considering for long strings of competitive firing, with trajectories comparable to good 300WM loads, and LR retained energy at least as good as the .30-'06.

Greg

 

[Remoah]

Re: Best barrel length

Are you asking for barrel length suggestions, or calibre suggestions?

Also, what is your intended use for this rifle (legitimately), will you be humping it up and down hills, or will it be sitting on a benchrest looking cool and awaiting the zombie invasion like all of my rifles
What ranges will you be shooting at.

As for calibre. No love for the .308, .243 or 7-08?
They may not be as big as some of the ones you've mentioned, but will definitely reach the 1000yd mark in the right hands, hell i've seen .223's ringing steel past 800 with repeatable accuracy!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Best barrel length

One of the key issues with target shooting is the faster firing cadence associated with match courses of fire. This frequently leads to overheated barrels, and most barrels have accuracy issues when fired at the faster cadences.

L-W has developed a specialty barrel for such applications that has the added feature of lighter weight.

Definitely on the pricey side, it still gets my attention.

Greg

 

[hdbiker1]

Re: Best barrel length

I was just introduced to an article about the secrets of the Houston Warehouse. It said in the article about the magic length being 21.75". Don't know specifics. Read the article, at least you should find it an interesting read.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html

 

[dk-1]

Re: Best barrel length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hdbiker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was just introduced to an article about the secrets of the Houston Warehouse. It said in the article about the magic length being 21.75". Don't know specifics. Read the article, at least you should find it an interesting read.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html </div></div>

That was a serious read!!! I do believe from personal experience that a barrel in the 20"-22" range is most accurate, however, I was unaware of a 21 3/4" magic length... One factor to consider though, with a shorter barrel also comes loss of velocity. At 100 yards in a bench rest application it would go unnoticed. At extended distances the loss of velocity will limit the round to some degree. From my research, a 243 (6mm) will lose about 116 feet per second by going from 26" to 22" barrel length. This is a small number and in the real world it probably won't make a bit of difference, just something to think about...

 

[Top Cat]

Re: Best barrel length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MDStroup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After deciding I wanted to build a tactical style bolt action rifle I went about looking what rounds would suit my needs the best. I noticed that none of the information on the rounds I was looking up mentioned the barrel length that would get most performance out of that round or was mixed counter active info. This gun will be used mostly for long range target shooting. So if you have any information on this subject please post. Here are the rounds I was looking at :
.30-06
.300 win mag
7mm rem mag
7mm rem ultra may
.270 win
.260 rem
6.5 creedmoore
8mm
(any other suggestions for long range calibers are welcome</div></div>

Most of those rounds you mention are going to be handload only propositions for long range target work. So if you don't plan to load your own ammo, your potential list of candidates would be a lot shorter. It also depends on what you mean by long range, and what other uses you intend for the rifle.

If you are just starting out, you might just consider a 308.

TC

 

[MDStroup]

Re: Best barrel length

•Forgot to list. 280 rem and 7-08.
• I didn't list .308 because I will be inheriting after all the legal work a M1a in. 308 that my grandfather and I built together when was younger so I don't need another gun in. 308 just yet
• yes I will be handloading
• Greg langelius thanks for the link to the barrel
• hdbiker1 that was a good read, thanks for the link to it
• the intended use for this gun is mainly long rang shooting drills in any place we can shoot beside a bench to keep my dad from getting rusty and improve my long range shooting skills
• remoah I know the .223 can be used accurately at a distance. I know several(i think the exact number is 5)people who target shoot with it out to a 1000 yards.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Best barrel length

Check out the barrel's price before you get your heart set on it. It has been prohibitive for me until lately, and may still be.

Unless the major bulk of your shooting will <span style="font-style: italic">definitely</span> be beyond 700 or 800yd, the .308 will still be a highly valid choice, and it is still quite capable of going to 1000yd. Having another gun in 308 shouldn't be any less logical than having it in any of the other chamberings you mentioned. It's actually more logical if you're already handloading for the chambering.

My preference would be for the .260, and the .280 is only really going to stand out if you're definitely planning on shooting <span style="font-style: italic">well</span> beyond 1000yd; the key difference is recoil and it's a pretty important one. Why shoot anything larger than the 260 unless it's truly necessary?

The warehuse article is pretty dramatic, but it's not a true indicator of the real world. The conditions the shooting took place under are only relevent if they can be reproduced, and I'd bet against many of us being able to do that. Meanwhile, barrel lengths are tied irrrevocably to chamberings and loads. Unless you're shooting the actual same load as the article, the barrel length data is simply irrelevent.

Barrel lengths are probably most closely related to case volume and a chamber/bore expansion ratio that's based on load configuration and barrel harmonic performance. If there's a way to calulate it ideally in advance, I don't know the process yet; and I have put considerable effort into figuring that one out over the years.

In the end there is no free lunch, stuff like this is still experimental, and my own (probably screwy) preferred approach is to go longer, and depend on load developement to make the arbitrarily chosen length work to its best potential.

Folks who know a better way should please, please chime in at this point. I could use that particular bit of enlightenment myself, too.

Personally, I firmly believe that learning how to compensate for the wind is best learned on the smaller scale with the .22, and then stepped up to the centerfire scale. Scaling this stuff by definite numeric ratios is probably a mistake, but there is some sort of scale at work, and intuition is probably the best tool for applying the one to the other. In the end, experience is the only valid teacher.

Greg

 

[Jimmy76]

Re: Best barrel length

Littlebit hard one, because if you want specific combination tailored just for your needs, then velocity, bullet weight & rate of twist are important to know. I try to make somekind of reasonable solution between original meaning of the caliber AND sniping. Ability to carry rifle in difficult situations is one part of this hard mission... uh ( Anyway.
IMHO between the lines:


.30-06
- 12" 660-700mm

.300 win mag
- 12" 660-740mm

7mm rem mag
- 9" or 10" 660-740mm

7mm rem ultra mag
- 9" 690-790mm (My recommendation is 8.5" - 9" twist with at least 180 grain bullet, because large load of powder burns barrel quite fast.)

.270 win
- 10" 640-680mm

- My humble recommendation would be 7mm WSM or 300 WSM. Reason is this: They are very accurate, Action will be shorter (not so heavy) and lots of different kind of bullets available.

EDIT: BTW: I´m not 100% sure about barrel lenghts, because size of the hole matters a lot. For example my superb Stainless Border 5R 7mm 660mm barrel spits 168gr Sierra MK out MUCH faster than Vihtavuori´s manual notices, so...

 

[Remoah]

Re: Best barrel length

hdbiker, good read mate. cheers.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Best barrel length

I'm with Jimmy, get WSM or SAUM style cartridge. They have a more proficient burn rate than the longer skinnier ones you've mentioned, other than the .260. I honestly don't know anything about the 6.5 creedmore.
All of your mentioned rounds are excellent hunting rounds, but for target shooting will warm up fast, maybe not the 6.5s.
I've seen some 6.5 wsm's, and 6.5 saum's shooting 130gr norma's and 140gr bergers at 3300 fps and they are absolute lazers.
No 6.5x284 will run with them.
Around here alot of us run 7mm saum's, 180gr bergers are the favorite. I have two 7saums, one 24", one 27', one runs 175gr bergers at 3080, the other 180gr berger hybrids at 3010. I recommend 7mm because of the better bullet selection over the 30 cals.
We may differ here, but to me Long Range starts at around 700 yards, depending on wind conditions,ELR starts at around 1500.
I recommend a 26" barrel if you're long range target shooting. Fast twist for shooting the heavier bullets, wieght of barrel or gun would be pesonel preference. To me, good velocity and a high bc bullet are a winning combo.

Go to this site www.6mmbr.com , there is some good reading on cartridges. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but those benchrest shooters know their shit.

Good luck in your quest.
Miles

 

[MDStroup]

Re: Best barrel length

At first I thought al of the responses I was getting were weird, untill I reread my question. I think I must have been sleepy when I wrote that because I left out alot of my question, and what I typed made me sound like a retard. So let me start over. I know barrel lenght affects velocity only. But Haveing to long of a barrel will create sag since it is a cantilevered beam, and to much sag will start to affect accuracy. But going to short will result in a great loss in accuracy which in turn cuts down the range. So when trying to find info on the best lengths for each caliber I came across Eugene Nelson's article "barrel length and the precision rifle, why shorter barrels may be better." and was surprised to learn how short you can go before affecting velocity. In the article they cut down a 26 inch barreled bolt action rifle in .308 to 20 inches with no loss in velocity and when they cut it down to 18 inches it only lost 32 FPS. They also did another test where they cut down a 28 inch barreled bolt action in .300 win mag to 22 inches without a loss in velocity. Both guns retained the same accuracy they had from the beginning. The only problem with shorter barrels is that you cant use heavier bullets, or bullets with more or slower burnning powder to their full potential. So all I wanted to know was the shortest lenght barrel you could have with each caliber and still use the heavier bullets. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

 

[frankythefly]

Re: Best barrel length

Do you have a link to the Article?

My experience is that from a 26inch to a 20 inch .308 was a loss of 140FPS, utilizing the same load between the two(175 SMK, 43.5varget)

You really need to pick a caliber, then pick a max target distance, then from that pick a bullet/powder combo. Anyhow lots of information on this topic.

 

[jp67]

Re: Best barrel length

Here is a link to the article about barrel lenght:
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

 

[shooter65]

Re: Best barrel length

Each barrel blank is different and will tell you where it needs to be cut and crowned. The smallest spot in the bore has to be crowned.

 

[*greenhorn*]

Re: Best barrel length

+1 to shooters response, but yes length affects allot, muz. vlos., burn presentatage, stability of the projectile, max grain weight of allowed projectile, ( if you have a shorter barrel its "harder" to get a bigger grain bullet to stabilize ). short barrels are easier to manover and work with in a real world situation. but too short the less relibal the shot is in y experiance is.

i have a 20" 308
i have a 12" 308

the shorter is less moz vlos. and the more deflection at range

pics to explain

 

[MDStroup]

Re: Best barrel length

First I don't know how to post links, second I don't think I can post links to other sites on here yet. Cowboy1978 those are two very nice guns you have their. What type of pistol is that? The link jp67 posted does lead to the right article.

 

[TattooBlade]

Re: Best barrel length

308 22" just like GAP built mine. Nuff said.

 

[Scooter64]

Re: Best barrel length

Is your barrel length measured from muzzle to front of recoil lug?

 

[*greenhorn*]

Re: Best barrel length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FLHX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is your barrel length measured from muzzle to front of recoil lug? </div></div>

no from the muzzle to the end of the lands, barrel groves, top of chamber, how ever you like to say, the length of tube that is refiled is your barrel length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MDStroup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First I don't know how to post links, second I don't think I can post links to other sites on here yet. Cowboy1978 those are two very nice guns you have their. What type of pistol is that? The link jp67 posted does lead to the right article. </div></div>

the pistol is a Lone Eagle may by magnum research same people who make the Desert Eagle

the easy way to post a link is to copy the address bar on where you want people to go and paste it in the post I.E.

www.yahoo.com

or this

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...309#Post2960309

witch is the link for this post

 

[Jhnmdahl]

Re: Best barrel length

As many have pointed out, you can't intelligently choose a barrel length without knowing at least your caliber, load, and goals first. For example, the 7mm magnums should be at least 26", or you're wasting a bunch of powder burnt after the bullet has left the barrel - you could do just as well with a 7mm-08 if you cut them both down to 22".

Also, stating a single barrel length, like 21.5" or some such thing is ideal, won't hold true with a different caliber, load, bullet weight, barrel contour, bedding, or other such factor changed.