Best bullet for PRS-type shooting, 6mm GT, 7.5 twist

[Malum Prohibitum]

So the barrel is already purchased and in the action. It is a Bartlein with a 1:7.5" Twist. So now I need to select a bullet. Because GA Precision developed this round, I was going to go to the new Hornady 109 ELD Match, which was developed just for this . . . but the forum has this discussion

New Hornady 109gr 6mm ELD-M

Looks like they are sold out now.

www.snipershide.com

in which there are reports of accuracy falling off due to stability at somewhere between 600-800 and farther.

Some recommended the 110 A Tip, but Hornady recommends 7.7 or faster twist.

If any of you are shooting 6mm GT and have a bullet recommendation from experience for a 7.5 twist barrel, I would love to hear it.

Thanks.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I feel like an idiot. While looking at 109 and 105 hybrid Bergers, I noticed they need 1:8 or faster . . . which is when I realized 7.5 was faster than 7.7 . . . duh . . .

I'd still like any recommendations to consider. Sigh.

 

[S3th]

You can't go wrong with 110 ATIPS or 105/109 Bergers.

 

[LR1845]

When I reloaded I always had the best luck and easiest to load with the 105 hybrids.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

You can't go wrong with 110 ATIPS or 105/109 Bergers.

When I reloaded I always had the best luck and easiest to load with the 105 hybrids.

LR1845, just to be clear, you are talking about these? https://bergerbullets.com/product/6-mm-105-grain-hybrid-target/

 

[LR1845]

LR1845, just to be clear, you are talking about these? https://bergerbullets.com/product/6-mm-105-grain-hybrid-target/

Yes.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Maybe one day Berger will start producing bullets in 6mm again . . . lol

 

[LR1845]

Maybe one day Berger will start producing bullets in 6mm again . . . lol

These shoot pretty good too…

Sierra MatchKing - 6mm 107 gr HPBT - Bullet Central

www.bulletcentral.com

 

[kyzim311]

If there was only one bullet to choose from, the 109 hybrid would be my pick. For PRS though, there is a list of bullets that will work just fine. 105 hybrid, 107 SMK, 108 eldm, and 109 come to mind first. 110 a-tip is too pricey for PRS IMO

 

[Kadams1563]

109 eld

 

[spife7980]

Any 105-115 will be just fine

But what you can find at what you believe to be a reasonable price. There aren’t too many bad heavy 6mm bullets these days.


I’d still default to a 7 twist given the choose though.

 

[High Desert duck]

I’ve shot over 1000 109 ELDs. Granted it was a 6 Creed but I’m not stepping on them. They are doing 3000 fps, and I have seen No drop in accuracy at any distance, out to 1400 so far. The barrel is a 1:7.5

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

109 eld

You have not experienced the drop in accuracy over 600-800 yards being discussed in the link in the original post?

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I’ve shot over 1000 109 ELDs. Granted it was a 6 Creed but I’m not stepping on them. They are doing 3000 fps, and I have seen No drop in accuracy at any distance, out to 1400 so far. The barrel is a 1:7.5

Thanks for sharing that - I guess it just throws up a red flag for me when several persons described the same issue, great groups at 100, but accuracy falling off after 600-800, which went away when they switched to another bullet.

 

[Kadams1563]

I personally haven’t but I also remember when the 140 eld’s had all kinds of problems and I never seen them either. Lol. I shoot steel only past 100 yards so they work fine for that.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Hornady is fine if you dont mind flyers. You will lose points due to BC consistency at longer ranges as well. Hard to quantify but like 90% of shooters are running berger 109's or 105s. They are the gold standard.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Hornady is fine if you dont mind flyers. You will lose points due to BC consistency at longer ranges as well. Hard to quantify but like 90% of shooters are running berger 109's or 105s. They are the gold standard.

DeathBeforeDismount, thanks. Nobody has had them in stock for about the wait time at the ATF for a form 4 approval. Berger has a statement on their web site saying they are not investing in increasing production due to fear of bankruptcy if demand drops, and they advise just to order at a dealer and get on a wait list - considering no dealer has had them in stock for about 9 months, that is probably going to be quite a wait.

 

[kthomas]

Hornady is fine if you dont mind flyers. You will lose points due to BC consistency at longer ranges as well. Hard to quantify but like 90% of shooters are running berger 109's or 105s. They are the gold standard.

Last match I was at a guy in my squad had 6mm ELD's randomly blowing up on him.

Mind you, he was shooting a 6mm Creedmoor.

I personally don't have enough faith in Hornady's products to use them. They seem to have consistency and QA/QC issues, especially in the ELD-M line.

Bergers always produces consistent and reliable results for me, hard to even consider other options.

 

[LR1845]

DeathBeforeDismount, thanks. Nobody has had them in stock for about the wait time at the ATF for a form 4 approval. Berger has a statement on their web site saying they are not investing in increasing production due to fear of bankruptcy if demand drops, and they advise just to order at a dealer and get on a wait list - considering no dealer has had them in stock for about 9 months, that is probably going to be quite a wait.

Try the 107 SMK's you wont be disappointed.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

DeathBeforeDismount, thanks. Nobody has had them in stock for about the wait time at the ATF for a form 4 approval. Berger has a statement on their web site saying they are not investing in increasing production due to fear of bankruptcy if demand drops, and they advise just to order at a dealer and get on a wait list - considering no dealer has had them in stock for about 9 months, that is probably going to be quite a wait.

I have like 10K 109s on backorder, you should do the same. Also when they come in stock buy a few K. Not getting caught short handed is part of preparing for the sport.

 

[camocorvette]

In a dasher I've been only using 108 ELDM'S. In my rifle they will hit a 6"plate every time at 840 yards. If I move to the 3" plate at 840 I'm at about 50% hits. Further than that and my groups open up alittle.
I plan on trying the matchburners. But the 108 elds seem to work just fine for their price point.

 

[howler]

Pick anything in a yellow box (Berger), and it will shoot. Their bullets are very high quality/consistency for mass produced ones. Not that any of the others listed here won’t shoot well, it’s just berger you don’t really have to wonder if the bullet is sucking or something else.

 

[CK1.0]

Everybody is going to say Berger Hybrids, 105's or 109's, which is also why they are always out-of-stock lol.

I've shot more than a few thousand of each of the following in 7.5T 6mm barrels:

108gn ELD-M's - I feel like they get a bad rap, they're straight-up VLD's which can be tricky if you don't know better, and they don't always work at the ubiquitous "20 off the lands", you either need to jam them or find a jump-range they like (~40-60 thou off worked great for me).

115gn DTAC's - were my favorite until they went out-of-stock under COVID (only back in-stock recently), solid choice IMO, you can run them a little slower than usual as the good BC makes up the difference, jumped mine ~60-80 thou off.

112gn Barnes Match Burner - these are cheaper than most as Barnes hasn't really established itself in the precision rifle world as some others have. I was skeptical, but the BC numbers and overall consistency has been impressive, especially for half the price. I took a chance on some of these when everything was sold out and have ended up shooting a shitload of them. I've shot many softball-sized, and a few baseball-sized groups at 1250 yards with these, so don't turn your nose up too quickly before you try them. I jump them 100 thou.

I plan to try the newer 109 ELD-M's, but with the Match Burners hovering ~$0.30 per bullet or less, I haven't gotten around to them yet.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I have like 10K 109s on backorder, you should do the same. Also when they come in stock buy a few K. Not getting caught short handed is part of preparing for the sport.

I understand your point, but I didn't run out. I am just getting started, building a 6mm GT rifle (still waiting on my chassis, 8-12 weeks), and gathering what I need. Now it is time to pick the bullet, but it looks like picking Berger means no shooting until next winter, so I will have to go with something else in the meantime.

I already need to go with Hornady brass rather than Alpha, which is not in stock anywhere.

I really appreciate everybody's input. I am just hoping to learn from the experience of others and avoid any expensive or time wasting mistakes to the extent I can.

 

[kyzim311]

The Bergers and alpha brass pop up a few times a year. To me the alpha brass is a bigger deal that the Bergers, just because Hornady brass ranges in quality from not great to bad. Keep your eyes open and you will find what you want

 

[CK1.0]

The Bergers and alpha brass pop up a few times a year. To me the alpha brass is a bigger deal that the Bergers, just because Hornady brass ranges in quality from not great to bad. Keep your eyes open and you will find what you want

He brings up a good point: having 300+ cases from the same lot makes a pretty big difference in the big picture, the name of the game is keeping rounds consistent and repeatable and that helps a bunch.

I've been shooting the same 300 Lapua cases for 2 barrels and 14 firings/cycles (over 4000rds), if you want single-digit SD's you need to make your own luck. Not to fuck things up, I have 300 Alpha cases on deck for my next barrel (and I expect it's as good or better than the Lapua stuff).

Not that stuff like Hornady brass is bad, it isn't. 300+ cases from the same lot would likely be close enough to each other for me.

But 300+ cases thrown together like jambalaya from a bunch of "2-3ish box range trips before I got into reloading"... you'd better be good and damn lucky lol.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

These shoot pretty good too…

Sierra MatchKing - 6mm 107 gr HPBT - Bullet Central

www.bulletcentral.com

Thanks.

I also see Berger 105 VLD Target for about the same price as the Sierras, but I haven't seen anybody mention or discuss them. Is the VLD Target inferior to LRHT?

 

[DocRDS]

I was just about to say, try the VLD...

Is hybrid better?

I think the better question is are you capable of shooting the difference...

I'd bet you'd be fine

 

[kyzim311]

Vlds tend to be more seating depth sensitive, basically treat them like and eldm for seating depth testing and you should be ok

 

[howler]

The Berger VLDs shoot great and for me the 115’s and 105’s shot very well with minimal load development in two different cartridges/barrels. They’re just less popular than hybrids because those are the “easy button”.

Many records have been shot with Berger VLDs.

 

[Jarhead94]

Bergers 105 and 109 have more podium finishes than any bullet. But they are really hard to come by. I gave up on them several years ago. I shoot 108 eldm in my Gt with the same barrel as yours, and proof 7.5 twist. They shoot really well out to 1000 yards. It's really gone depend on your reloading skills and trueing of your data with whatever bullet you choose. Looking back on my match books, if you miss every shot past 800 and get 8 hits per stage, your still in top 10. To me that's a more realistic approach than chasing the best bullet. Good luck with your gt, great round for sure.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Bergers 105 and 109 have more podium finishes than any bullet. But they are really hard to come by. I gave up on them several years ago. I shoot 108 eldm in my Gt with the same barrel as yours, and proof 7.5 twist. They shoot really well out to 1000 yards. It's really gone depend on your reloading skills and trueing of your data with whatever bullet you choose. Looking back on my match books, if you miss every shot past 800 and get 8 hits per stage, your still in top 10. To me that's a more realistic approach than chasing the best bullet. Good luck with your gt, great round for sure.

Most helpful post yet, thank you, but lots of great input from everybody.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I think the better question is are you capable of shooting the difference...

LOL, dose of reality. But I thought maybe I could come in second to last instead of last if I used Berger LRHT.

 

[M4orturnate]

Hornady is fine if you dont mind flyers. You will lose points due to BC consistency at longer ranges as well. Hard to quantify but like 90% of shooters are running berger 109's or 105s. They are the gold standard.

The 109s eld and 110 atips are incredibly consistent. Less then 1% bc variation when we shot them over the ab radar. Im just about through my first 1k of 109s and havent had a single round do something weird. One nice thing is you do load dev with the 109 and can literally drop a 110 in its place without changing anything and it shoots the same. My plan was 109s for training and 1 days and atips for 2 days but the 109s have been so good i may forgo the 110s

 

[howler]

The 109s eld and 110 atips are incredibly consistent. Less then 1% bc variation when we shot them over the ab radar. Im just about through my first 1k of 109s and havent had a single round do something weird. One nice thing is you do load dev with the 109 and can literally drop a 110 in its place without changing anything and it shoots the same. My plan was 109s for training and 1 days and atips for 2 days but the 109s have been so good i may forgo the 110s

Litz has measured the 110 A-Tips over 1% and 2% in BC variation in his most recent book. Doesn’t seem to be consistent.

1.3%
1.4%
1.6%
2.2%
2.3%

That’s the records he has for the 110 A-Tip in his book (Modern Advancements Vol. 3) for BC variation.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

The 109s eld and 110 atips are incredibly consistent. Less then 1% bc variation when we shot them over the ab radar. Im just about through my first 1k of 109s and havent had a single round do something weird. One nice thing is you do load dev with the 109 and can literally drop a 110 in its place without changing anything and it shoots the same. My plan was 109s for training and 1 days and atips for 2 days but the 109s have been so good i may forgo the 110s

What barrel?

 

[spife7980]

Litz has measured the 110 A-Tips over 1% and 2% in BC variation in his most recent book. Doesn’t seem to be consistent.

1.3%
1.4%
1.6%
2.2%
2.3%

That’s the records he has for the 110 A-Tip in his book (Modern Advancements Vol. 3) for BC variation.

He also sells Berger…

 

[howler]

He also sells Berger…

Right, which is why the Berger 109 LRHT is right up there with it in tons of BC Variation. Have you read it, or are you just pointing out the obvious?

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Hornady ball garglers even defend them when they are blowing up going down range. It's a form of stockholm syndrome.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

He also sells Berger…

Or The foremost modern small arms ballistician has a hand in designing , testing and developing the best bullets on the planet. You can look at it both ways.

 

[spife7980]

I was just saying not to take it as gospel

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Results don't lie. There is a reason hornady bullets can be found anywhere and guys would sell their mothers into prostitution for LRHTs.

 

[DocRDS]

LOL, dose of reality. But I thought maybe I could come in second to last instead of last if I used Berger LRHT.

No worries, I often do it myself and convince myself I must have 'the best' when some alternatives are just as goon. I did some target shooting with ELD-X (hunting bullets). Idiot on the trigger outweighed anything else

 

[M4orturnate]

What barrel?

Hawk hill 7.5 twist. I shoot a br my runs them in a gt

 

[M4orturnate]

Litz has measured the 110 A-Tips over 1% and 2% in BC variation in his most recent book. Doesn’t seem to be consistent.

1.3%
1.4%
1.6%
2.2%
2.3%

That’s the records he has for the 110 A-Tip in his book (Modern Advancements Vol. 3) for BC variation.

Dont buy them then idgaf. Means they will stay available. Ill keep placing well with them. Id give bergers a try but im not chasing something thats never in stock. Typical capstone limit supply keep prices up. No thanks

 

[M4orturnate]

Litz has measured the 110 A-Tips over 1% and 2% in BC variation in his most recent book. Doesn’t seem to be consistent.

1.3%
1.4%
1.6%
2.2%
2.3%

That’s the records he has for the 110 A-Tip in his book (Modern Advancements Vol. 3) for BC variation.

Ive never shot atips over the radar. Both me and my friend shot different lots of 109s. Both were less then 1%. Small sample size but my experience.

 

[Baron85]

I recently started testing the 112 matchburners in my 6BR and dasher. Accuracy was excellent and consistency so far in my limited use has outperformed my 108eldm load at distance. Seems I am getting more consistency and better accuracy at distance with the 112’s. I have only shot around 100 or so of the 112’s so far so more testing needed.

 

[Turbwhistle]

Last year i ran 109 lrht for the entire season, this off season i started messing with 112mb and i wont be switching back. The results i have gotten do no warrant paying more money for a bullet that shoots just as good, and is harder to find.

 

[Jarhead94]

Last year i ran 109 lrht for the entire season, this off season i started messing with 112mb and i wont be switching back. The results i have gotten do no warrant paying more money for a bullet that shoots just as good, and is harder to find.

This is good to hear. I got around 2500 of these and some fresh jugs of h4350. Really want to try this combo. I have got some good feedback from a friend shooting these in dasher around 2800. What cartridge and powder are you running these?

 

[Turbwhistle]

This is good to hear. I got around 2500 of these and some fresh jugs of h4350. Really want to try this combo. I have got some good feedback from a friend shooting these in dasher around 2800. What cartridge and powder are you running these?

I am running a 6gt, my practice loads were 112’s, alpha brass, cci450’s, and varget at 2850fps.
My match loads are h4350, going the same 2850fps. The varget shot better but I have a bunch of h4350, so I’ll use it up.