Night Vision Best overall set up for long range hog hunting at night

[Btar21]

As the title says, I am looking for some advice on the best overall setup for long range hog hunting. The subject has been touched on in various threads but I wanted to get more specific thoughts and advice around my specific intended use.

-I define long range at night as roughly half of what I would describe during daylight. So, for the purpose of this conversation, I would like the ability to confidently take a shot at 350-400 yards.
-My rifle is a custom built Remington 700 action in a Masterpiece Arms chassis chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor. The rife and my personal ability(during the day) are 1/2 moa at similar distances. I have a March High Master 10-60 day optic mounted to the rifle.
-I live in Texas and would primarily hunt hogs and occasionally coyotes in what I would describe as open terrain.
-I currently own a new Halo LR, which I love for spotting, but not sure I would be comfortable shooting at much more than 150 yards. Reasons for those hesitations are: Anything above 4x magnification the clarity declines quickly and I don't feel comfortable shooting that far at only 4x. Also, I have learned to shoot with turret adjustments not hold overs so holding over during the day would be a new skill that is exasperated at night.
-I have also owned a UTC-X not XII that I sold recently to help a family member out. I didn't have it long and never hunted it. I will say that just playing with it on my property, the ergonomics were a little tough with a long range optic in place. It was a bit heavy and I found the focus difficult to reach operate effectively. Perhaps the focus may be set it and forget it with a little more time with it. or the XII may likely be better

-All said, I would likely feel most comfortable keeping my day optic on my rifle and doing a clip-on for night hunting. Would you search for a XII(which seems to be the best) or use thermal for spotting and go NV with IR Illuminator to take your shots? If I go NV I would go something WP with a quality high FOM tube. My only concerns with XII are finding one and the limited support after the purchase of a very expensive piece of equipment.

 

[Choid]

the X and Xii are indistinguishable in every way. You need a day scope that goes down to 3x or so, so you can see the menu. Maybe look into a lower powered day scope, and also the new Tig everybody is gaga over.

 

[Burdy]

Handheld thermal for spotter. Quality NV such as M2124LR or PVS-30, quality scope with 15x-ish top end, good illuminator and weapons mounted laser range finder. There is not a better way.

 

[jwramp]

+1 for lowering your scope power. Set up another rifle for night hunting if you're going to stick with that 10-60x (dang that's a whole lot more scope than I've ever needed) and do a dedicated thermal or a 2.5-20 or 3-18 type scope with a PVS-27 or -30.

 

[jeffl838]

The UTC is better with a shorter scope so you can reach that focus ring. Your gun sounds bad ass, but if you want something that is the best overall night setup, you're gonna want a different rifle to go with it. The UTC is actually super nice with a 1-8, 2-10. or 3-15. It kinda starts sucking after 12 power. I'd personally be comfortable shooting a pig at 400m with a UTC and a 10x scope (your bottom end), but only if there was absolutely no chance that it was the neighbors dog or something like that

With night stuff, you almost have to own a suite to cover all situations, so the best overall setup will actually include several units. Is 400 yards the sweet spot you'll be hunting at, or your desired max effective range? I ask because something that will be visually excellent at 400 yards will be super frustrating at 50 yards. This is because available rifle thermals cannot optically zoom, so you're very restricted by available FOV. Also, will you be hunting from a static position?

 

[Btar21]

Gentlemen, thank you for the feedback. Sounds like I need to set my favorite day light rifle aside and do a dedicated night rifle. I think because it fits like an old glove, I want it to fit every shooting situation.

I forgot to mention I have a radius on both my long range rifles so estimating distance should be on par.

My other “longer range” rifle is a custom built F1/JP AR10 also chambered in 6.5 creedmoor (the round I reload). It’s a 3/4 MOA rifle with a March 1.5-15 mounted on it. The scope set up sounds like it’s more in line with a night time set up.

For those of you who do long range NV, what IR illuminator do you prefer? I would love to say I’ll just buy a UTC-XiI and call it done but I looked for some time for the X I had so must assume the XII will be even harder to find a quality unit. With that said, NV is what remains. Liking the high FOM M2124LR at the moment. It has come recommended by a couple trusted sources and seems to be obtainable new.

 

[Btar21]

Sorry, to clarify, I will be shooting from a relic carbon tripod on a arca rail.

The 350-400 range is the sweet spot for this application. I have a 300 black out (the other round that I reload) ultra light AR15 that I built for shorter ranges (50-150) that I planned to just run the halo dedicated.

 

[Bevo]

This thread confuses me. Who is shooting hogs at 350-400 yards? Coyote you can't call in, sure. But why shoot a hog from there when you can stalk up to 50 yards...that's half the fun for me.

 

[jeffl838]

that 6.5 with a faster load should be fine for pigs out to 400. Especially with the radius. Honestly, if you're blasting your target with illumination, you won't really need a special high FOM unit. A run of the mill pvs30 or 27 would be fine and those are pretty cheap.

If you can get your hands on a grey market military laser (la5, peq15, etc), the ability to zero, focus, and change power on the illuminator makes them ideal.

I personally settled for a Luna ELIR-3. It kinda sucks, but it's bright and does the job ok. I saw a recent thread about an incoming contender to the Luna. I've heard the Steiner SPIR isn't bad, but is kinda bulky as well as twice the cost of the luna.

 

[sleeplz]

This guy knows how to hog hunt. Semi autos and thermals will be your ultimate setup. Search lone star boars in case you don’t have your YouTube linked.

 

[Btar21]

We have a ranch that the house sits on the top of a hill and down in valley behind the pond, the hogs root and feed. I’m not saying that I never have the interest in stocking but, there are occasions, that I’d like to hunt from the house. There are two sides of every sword, there is the thrill of the stalk but there is also the thrill of long range marksmanship. I grew up doing long range shooting and as I have grown older, I have the desire to do so in the night. Hopefully that clears up the confusion.

 

[Btar21]

Regarding illuminators, what is the consensus on units like the MAWL or Raid-x? Worth the expense or are the alternatives that are a better value? I have a MAWL I am currently looking at but been on the fence for the investment

 

[diggler1833]

I've been around some - definitely not all - of the more high end thermal scopes and clip-ons offered today. Maybe my inexperience with every setup is speaking here, but I'm not 100 percent confident in 100 percent positive ID at 400 yards.

I've seen some deer scooting around for acorns in 12-18" grass without lifting their heads up for extended periods of time. Same back profile, same erratic movement of a hog. Got me all excited until we got close and finally realized what we were seeing. Obviously hunting right after bailing hay or brush hogging might help to reduce this.

I'm not saying it can't be done. Just that this definitely requires an extra level of caution. Good luck, and I'm in this thread now to see the results.

 

[deersniper]

Magnification is over rated.
Especially with thermal.

NF 2.5-10x50f1 plus Utc on a 20” proof barreled 6.5 ar10 is a Awesome! combo.

That TigIR is getting good reviews also.

But I highly recommend the nx8 and 65 proof ar

 

[Texasflyer]

I live in central Texas. My hog and coyote night setup is a model 70 in .243 with an atn thor lt thermal. My brother brings an ar 15 with a nv scope and i put him on things and we take what we want. I will say its rarely past 200 yds that we hunt out to.

 

[smcfarland]

I have an F1 6.5 Creedmoor as well that I use in this capacity, but typically don't go past 300 with it on coyotes and pigs.
The best bang for the buck I've found is a SIMRAD KN203. I recently added a Luna ELIR 3 to replace my older TNVC torch for illumination, and it works perfect when paired with the SIMRAD out to 600+.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Lots of good feedback up yander ^^^^^

.................

I see a couple options, but really it starts with the ability to adequately range your target if you aren't shooting laser beams. Most people that know their property, know distinguishable points of reference, but you would want to assume that if using thermal and conditions are horrendous, you won't have a clue what's what (it will be a sea of grey). Similarly with NV, it's different, but can still be difficult depending on conditions.

Thermal:

The UTCx/xii are fantastic performers. You don't need to adjust the focus very much once setup. In fact, once I set mine, it's very rare that I touch it from night to night. My process is a quick check with my eye-balls, then head out. Sure, the UTC line-up isn't light, but it's pretty compact and exceptional at PID in all sorts of conditions.

The Tig may benefit you in that it's a fixed focus at infinity, and no ability to tweak it. With the shuttered auto-NUC, there really isn't much need to touch the thing once it's mounted. Select a brightness and color pallet you like, and go. This is by far the lightest and smallest option. Also runs on rechargeable batts for 8 hours straight.

LWTS-LR is another good option as a clip-on, but it's heavy, and the focus ring is even further forward. Probably not ideal considering you don't like the focus ring on the UTCx.

Night Vision:

You're going to need an illuminator unless you're a fair weather half moon or better kind of guy. The same problem exists with the LRF necessity for the ranges your'e after. Frankly, without a LRF, even living on and knowing the land mark range indicators, you're still going to want an LRF. On no-moon or cloud covered night, NV clip-ons will struggle just like any other I2 device.

The 2124LR in WP is probably my favorite option. Like you, I couldn't stand the -30 focus ring being so damn far forward. I'm 6'1" and have a pretty long wing span, and even still it wasn't pleasant. The 24LR pulls the focus adjustment back towards the shooter, and it's about the lightest wait I2 Clip-on you can get meant for the ranges you indicated. The 24LR is not magnum rated, but works fine on 308w or similar.

PVS27 is another option, at about half or a third of the cost of a new 2124LR. It will be a green tube unless you send it to Jay. The focus adjustment is back towards the shooter and very easy to manipulate. The -27 has a larger lens than the -30 and 24LR and in theory pulls in more light thus reducing the need for illumination; you'll still need it though. It's a heavy pig but magnum rated.

PVS30 is a beast at a billion pounds, but it's nearly indestructible. The focus adjustment sucks, unless you go with the UNS LR A2, which you can also opt for a high FOM L3 WP Tube. The UNS LR A2 solves all my PVS30 problems when it comes to focus adjustment, but it's still heavy as hell. Probably not the right path considering you think the UTCx is heavy.

..................

In summary, you have options, and everything I posted was the quick and dirty. If you want the full reply, happy to go voice. PM your phone number.

In my eyes, there are really just a couple options for you based on what you're wanting. You will want a shorter optic with base mag closer to 3x like the 5-20 US, ZCO 4-20, or NF 2.5-20. This bring the clip-on closer to the shooter. You also want a LRF - if it has built in illumination, consider it a bonus.

Thermal, you're looking at the Tig if new, and the UTCx/xii or LWTS-LR if used. Night Vision, I would sway you towards the 2124LR, or if you can muster the added weight, get the UNS LR A2; opt for L3 Filmless in either. You will 100% need illumination capability, and that's an entirely other can of worms.

Preston

 

[jeffl838]

Regarding illuminators, what is the consensus on units like the MAWL or Raid-x? Worth the expense or are the alternatives that are a better value? I have a MAWL I am currently looking at but been on the fence for the investment

I don't think the mawl has an adjustable flood, which is nice if you're pairing it with a pvs30/27.

I like the mawl in that it's serviceable, has good brightness with the civ units, and has a nice mount. I don't like a lot of other ergonomic things about it, and that (i think) the flood isn't adjustable. I don't know anything about the raid x.

I'd rather have a luna over the mawl for illuminating with a pvs30 or 27 because of the adjustabilities.

 

[Btar21]

Preston
Thanks for the detailed write up. I have a silencerco radius on both my rifles, I am a stickler about knowing my distance. I know this gets harder in the dark but the radius, thus far, seems to do pretty well. I have considered a combo unit with an aiming laser just haven’t gotten clarity on how far they accurately work to take a shot. Having a flat trajectory like the 6.5 I’m sure helps and I am sure, as with everything, it depends on how much you spend on one.

After some great feedback above, I am going to look to set up my 6.5 creed AR10(F1/JP combo with with a proof carbon barrel and omega can) with the night gear, it has a 1.5-15 March compact on it which seems to fit the bill much better. It is also much lighter with gives more grace on the weight of the clip on.

The Tig is interesting, just need to research it a bit more then try to figure out where to get one from if that is the path.

The UTC-Xii would probably one of my first choices but where to do you actually find one and what kind of premium do you pay for it once you do?

The likely path I will end up on however will be NV. I really like the 2124lr and it can be purchased brand new. Sounds like the Luna is a good illumination option if NV is the direction.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Preston
Thanks for the detailed write up. I have a silencerco radius on both my rifles, I am a stickler about knowing my distance. I know this gets harder in the dark but the radius, thus far, seems to do pretty well. I have considered a combo unit with an aiming laser just haven’t gotten clarity on how far they accurately work to take a shot. Having a flat trajectory like the 6.5 I’m sure helps and I am sure, as with everything, it depends on how much you spend on one.

After some great feedback above, I am going to look to set up my 6.5 creed AR10(F1/JP combo with with a proof carbon barrel and omega can) with the night gear, it has a 1.5-15 March compact on it which seems to fit the bill much better. It is also much lighter with gives more grace on the weight of the clip on.

The Tig is interesting, just need to research it a bit more then try to figure out where to get one from if that is the path.

The UTC-Xii would probably one of my first choices but where to do you actually find one and what kind of premium do you pay for it once you do?

The likely path I will end up on however will be NV. I really like the 2124lr and it can be purchased brand new. Sounds like the Luna is a good illumination option if NV is the direction.

Haven't seen but one xii for sale, and that didn't get listed publicly. Your best bet is to post a WTB ad and see what pops up. Pretty much everything else can be sourced brand new.

Whatever path you go, we can help you with your purchase.

 

[theLBC]

 

[jeffl838]

Preston
Thanks for the detailed write up. I have a silencerco radius on both my rifles, I am a stickler about knowing my distance. I know this gets harder in the dark but the radius, thus far, seems to do pretty well. I have considered a combo unit with an aiming laser just haven’t gotten clarity on how far they accurately work to take a shot. Having a flat trajectory like the 6.5 I’m sure helps and I am sure, as with everything, it depends on how much you spend on one.

After some great feedback above, I am going to look to set up my 6.5 creed AR10(F1/JP combo with with a proof carbon barrel and omega can) with the night gear, it has a 1.5-15 March compact on it which seems to fit the bill much better. It is also much lighter with gives more grace on the weight of the clip on.

The Tig is interesting, just need to research it a bit more then try to figure out where to get one from if that is the path.

The UTC-Xii would probably one of my first choices but where to do you actually find one and what kind of premium do you pay for it once you do?

The likely path I will end up on however will be NV. I really like the 2124lr and it can be purchased brand new. Sounds like the Luna is a good illumination option if NV is the direction.

Post pics when you get done. A pro with the 2124LR will be that you will be able to read see landmarks/sign if you want to set some up for your range...

Where are you located?

 

[Btar21]

I want to thank all the members that chimed in and/or sent me a PM with your thoughts. I was heading in the wrong direction so I appreciate the guidance.

The ultimate conclusion was the thermal clip on fit the majority of my needs so I made a deal with Preston last night on a Tigir 6Z. This will work on both my long and short range rifle set ups covering a lot of my needs.

That said, as advised above, there really isn't one perfect solution for all environments. So, after some very good NV feedback from several members, I may give into temptation and get one of those as well. I posted my new Halo-LR today FS or FT and will be on the hunt for a good NV clip on & illuminator.

I will post pictures of both rifle set-ups once I have all the gear in hand and mounted up. I will also post some review notes from a laymen's perspective on both.

 

[SkyScrapin]

The ultimate conclusion was the thermal clip on fit the majority of my needs so I made a deal with Preston last night on a Tigir 6Z. This will work on both my long and short range rifle set ups covering a lot of my needs.

Thank you sir! We appreciate your business and trust in our recommendations!