Best Powder Scale

[l115a3]

I currently using RCBS Charge Master Combo to weight Varget for my .308 win.

It was comfortable to use by just let them pour and weight but in some shot, I have to take out powder due to their over pouring process.

The Digital scale run accuracy within +/- 0.1 Grain

Do this RCBS Digital was accuracy as same as Mechanic scale?
What is the best accuracy digital scale model for weight rifle powder?
I found some article mention with +/- 0.02 Grain Accuracy.!!!

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Best Powder Scale

I have come to the opinion that the most accurate, more importantly consistent, scale is balance beam based. Flourescent lights, noise in an electric line, weak batteries, poor electronics have no effect on the laws of physics.

I have a Brian Enos sourced I201 electronic that I used twice before buying my Dillon/Ohaus balance. I will sell you my 30 year warranty scale for $110.00 shipped. Box all accesories included.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Best Powder Scale

The best scale for reloading is a Generation 2 Prometheus.

Don't bother Googling it, they are hand made balance beam scales with a intergrated electronic trickling system, when I picked mine up I was amazed at the level of genius it takes to make 1 machine, not only are they super accurate(10 charges of Varget had a ES of .006 grains measured on a 15k lab scale) but are fast, around 9-10 seconds per charge, there was a long wait and the price was totally worth it.

 

[richardj]

Re: Best Powder Scale

Keep the Chargemaster and learn the programming and suggested improvements (adding the McDonalds Straw). Google it and you'll find the document you need for success..

RJ

 

[Walt K]

Re: Best Powder Scale

I have a Chargemaster and have used it in the past. I found it a bit slow and having some minor inconviences at times. I must admit I did not change the parameters to speed it up but I did use the McDonald's straw trick.
I now throw my charges using a Harrell's powder thrower, and tickle if necessary and check the powder charge weight using a Gem Pro 250. The Gem Pro 250 reads out to .02 of a grain. It's not a bad little scale. It repeats fairly well. It will drift sometimes about +/- .02, but that's not too bad. I have to admit the first unit went belly up in only three sessions but the company replaced it promptly.
The second unit seems to be OK so far. It's not too expensive, about $130.00 from Amazon.com. Regarding the scale, it's small, very portable, if you reload at the range, light weight, comes with a plug in charger and has a 20 year warranty. Worth checking out.

 

[CaptRob]

Re: Best Powder Scale

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The best scale for reloading is a Generation 2 Prometheus.

Don't bother Googling it, they are hand made balance beam scales with a intergrated electronic trickling system, when I picked mine up I was amazed at the level of genius it takes to make 1 machine, not only are they super accurate(10 charges of Varget had a ES of .006 grains measured on a 15k lab scale) but are fast, around 9-10 seconds per charge, there was a long wait and the price was totally worth it. </div></div>

What does something like that cost?

 

[Walt K]

Re: Best Powder Scale

Enough to make your head spin.

 

[avidflyer]

Re: Best Powder Scale

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: walt k</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Chargemaster and have used it in the past. I found it a bit slow and having some minor inconviences at times. I must admit I did not change the parameters to speed it up but I did use the McDonald's straw trick.
I now throw my charges using a Harrell's powder thrower, and tickle if necessary and check the powder charge weight using a Gem Pro 250. The Gem Pro 250 reads out to .02 of a grain. It's not a bad little scale. It repeats fairly well. It will drift sometimes about +/- .02, but that not too bad. I have to admit the fist unit went belly up in only three sessions but the company replaced it promptly.
The second unit seems to be OK so far. It's not too expensive, about $130.00 from Amazon.com. Regarding the scale, it's small, very portable, if you reload at the range, light weight, comes with a plug in charger and has a 20 year warranty. Worth checking out. </div></div>

I use the chargemaster then check the charge on a GEM PRO...works like a champ

 

[dan46n2]

Re: Best Powder Scale

Are you a good enough shot for that extremely accurate Prometheus to make a difference? Are your primers, bullets, and brass as consistent also? For most people including me the answer is no.... Well I want a Prometheus anyway!

 

[bward]

Re: Best Powder Scale

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dan46n2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you a good enough shot for that extremely accurate Prometheus to make a difference? Are your primers, bullets, and brass as consistent also? For most people including me the answer is no.... Well I want a Prometheus anyway!</div></div>
The biggest advantage to them is that it cuts way down on reloading time. That, and when you have a random flyer you know it was all you.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Best Powder Scale

If you have to ask................

 

[CaptRob]

Re: Best Powder Scale

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptRob</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The best scale for reloading is a Generation 2 Prometheus.

Don't bother Googling it, they are hand made balance beam scales with a intergrated electronic trickling system, when I picked mine up I was amazed at the level of genius it takes to make 1 machine, not only are they super accurate(10 charges of Varget had a ES of .006 grains measured on a 15k lab scale) but are fast, around 9-10 seconds per charge, there was a long wait and the price was totally worth it. </div></div>

What does something like that cost? </div></div>
Did some searching $3500 and you not even own it. WOW!!!

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Best Powder Scale

It's a lease, so what, Brand did that to keep his master piece HIS

 

[bward]

Re: Best Powder Scale

It's not exactly a short term lease either. They are so much better than anything out there nothing else is even comparable.

 

[George63]

Re: Best Powder Scale

satorius GD 503 is the next logical step up from the standard electronic - the problem with a standard electronic is in the software that compensates for drift /electrical supply variations - when you add 1 pc of powder at a time the software interprets that as drift and may not change the reading

the GD 503 uses a different strategy - (something about measuring a magnetic field) that makes it less susceptible to drift from electrical supply variations, this allows the software to pick up and display small additions (trickling) - so while it is only marginally better for some purposes , it is well suited for powder dispensing

it is about a grand

 

[tolnep]

Re: Best Powder Scale

i hear a 3 year wait for the Prometheus.

by the time it arrives you could have loaded 3 million rounds.

 

[Killshot44]

Re: Best Powder Scale

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have come to the opinion that the most accurate, more importantly consistent, scale is balance beam based. Flourescent lights, noise in an electric line, weak batteries, poor electronics have no effect on the laws of physics.</div></div>

Sorry, but this Luddite view has to end sometime, it IS 2012...
Digital scales in every lab and in thousands of other offices replaced beam scales long ago - there's no voodoo to them.
Excellent precision scales for reloading can be had for under $600. The only hard part is deciding how much scale you want.

In fact, right now it's hard to beat a little Gempro250 for dollar value. Reads to .02grain and doesn't drift. It's on the the slow side for trickling but if you don't mind the wait....
Would make a great back-up or range scale, if not a primary for someone starting out.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Best Powder Scale

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killshot44</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have come to the opinion that the most accurate, more importantly consistent, scale is balance beam based. Flourescent lights, noise in an electric line, weak batteries, poor electronics have no effect on the laws of physics.</div></div>

Sorry, but this Luddite view has to end sometime, it IS 2012...
Digital scales in every lab and in thousands of other offices replaced beam scales long ago - there's no voodoo to them.
Excellent precision scales for reloading can be had for under $600. The only hard part is deciding how much scale you want.

In fact, right now it's hard to beat a little Gempro250 for dollar value. Reads to .02grain and doesn't drift. It's on the the slow side for trickling but if you don't mind the wait....
Would make a great back-up or range scale, if not a primary for someone starting out.
</div></div>

I suppose you are excited about the switch to compact flourescent bulbs being shoved up the countries ass. They are the latest and greatest so to not love them would make one a Luddite? Incandescence just plain works all the time and so does a balance beam.

First scale I bought was a MyWeigh I201, German load sensor based, 30 year warranty from a respectable reloadinng house. Thing has sucked from day one. Could be dirty power, broken scale, air currents who knows but I wont spend money on a power conditioner to make my $160 scale work when a $70 Dillon beam never leaves me wondering. I'm sending the MyWeigh back to them on the warranty very soon. If it comes back as a brand new in the box exchange $110 shipped to anyone that wants it.

I wonder why Prometheus hasnt come out with a digital based system? I proudly wear my Luddite badge, drive my carburated self repairable motorcycle, rue the dawning of the spiral bulb era and leave the Chevy Volt to those unlike me.

 

[MJY65]

Re: Best Powder Scale

I own both digital and beam scales and see a place for each, but I tend not to get too worked up about the .1 grain powder variations that seem to bother some shooters. Here's why:

A few years ago I worked up a load for my 300WM. I chronographed each five round group on my Oehler 35P as I increased by .1 grain increments. When all the numbers were crunched it worked out to about 3FPS change/.1 grain powder. Running that through my ballistic program, that works out to about .75" difference in drop per .1grain at 1000 yd. It seemed significant until I realized that misjudging wind by 1/10 mph would have about the same effect. I can't judge wind anywhere near that accurately and I doubt my Kestrel can either. Being off in your range estimation by 5 yards would do the same. Most importantly, moving the muzzle of your barrel .0012 inch relative to the buttplate on a 44" rifle will also put you off by about an inch at 1000.

I realize that different loads may produce more or less variation with changes in powder charge, but the basic premise should be sound. I think we tend to focus on what we can see, like a .1 on a LED display sitting on the bench and forget about the many other things that make a much bigger difference.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Best Powder Scale

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MJY65</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own both digital and beam scales and see a place for each, but I tend not to get too worked up about the .1 grain powder variations that seem to bother some shooters. Here's why:

A few years ago I worked up a load for my 300WM. I chronographed each five round group on my Oehler 35P as I increased by .1 grain increments. When all the numbers were crunched it worked out to about 3FPS change/.1 grain powder. Running that through my ballistic program, that works out to about .75" difference in drop per .1grain at 1000 yd. It seemed significant until I realized that misjudging wind by 1/10 mph would have about the same effect. I can't judge wind anywhere near that accurately and I doubt my Kestrel can either. Being off in your range estimation by 5 yards would do the same. Most importantly, moving the muzzle of your barrel .0012 inch relative to the buttplate on a 44" rifle will also put you off by about an inch at 1000.

I realize that different loads may produce more or less variation with changes in powder charge, but the basic premise should be sound. I think we tend to focus on what we can see, like a .1 on a LED display sitting on the bench and forget about the many other things that make a much bigger difference. </div></div>

Well said!!
I wonder how many guys can shoot within the numbers they post up.
I realize there is no names behind our forum titles, but I'd like to know who these guys are with the fancy shit and can they shoot.

I'd be more inclined to ask Bryan Litz, Kyle Liebatrau, Francis Buell, or David Tubb what scale they use. These guys can shoot.

The best scale is the one your'e loading with right now, for it is all you have at your disposal.

Given the fact most people on this site use manufactured ammo anyway, and do just fine with it??????
Sorry for the rant, fuck it.
Miles

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Best Powder Scale

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MJY65</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own both digital and beam scales and see a place for each, but I tend not to get too worked up about the .1 grain powder variations that seem to bother some shooters. Here's why:

A few years ago I worked up a load for my 300WM. I chronographed each five round group on my Oehler 35P as I increased by .1 grain increments. When all the numbers were crunched it worked out to about 3FPS change/.1 grain powder. Running that through my ballistic program, that works out to about .75" difference in drop per .1grain at 1000 yd. It seemed significant until I realized that misjudging wind by 1/10 mph would have about the same effect. I can't judge wind anywhere near that accurately and I doubt my Kestrel can either. Being off in your range estimation by 5 yards would do the same. Most importantly, moving the muzzle of your barrel .0012 inch relative to the buttplate on a 44" rifle will also put you off by about an inch at 1000.

I realize that different loads may produce more or less variation with changes in powder charge, but the basic premise should be sound. I think we tend to focus on what we can see, like a .1 on a LED display sitting on the bench and forget about the many other things that make a much bigger difference. </div></div>

One of my constant questions with reloading/riflery is "How much does it matter?" The tool suppliers make a ton of money making us believe it matters a lot but they work off the premise our skills are perfect.

My skills are far from perfect. I have seen the enemy and it is me.

My first batch of loads I allowed my Dillon powder drop to fill my cases and I did random checks to see how the stick powders were falling. IMR 4895 poured about the best of the three I tried. Varget and 4064 were my other powders. I was generally within .5 grains with 4895 and with Varget I had a few plus .7. That batch of test rounds would make a nice group for about 5 rounds and the rest of ten would be outside the core.

This time I pulled the cases after the powder drop and trickled my powder to grains desired. Saturday shooting 200 yd prone with my 1931 barreled 1903 using ladder peep I found some loads that pounded the 10/X ring. I got useful data and feel confident I'm going to have a production load soon for my guns so I can stop dicking around with "testing" and just shoot.

I couldnt do this with my digi scale because weighing the exact same charge would not give me a repeatable number and putting the pan on would give me a display that looked like the processor was running the zero program. The key point for the OP is to get a scale that gives <span style="font-weight: bold">you</span> confidence in what you are doing.

 

[tolnep]

Re: Best Powder Scale

im curious..

i would assume case volume can be more important than the weighing to the .1 gr.

there's lots of talk about scales here but i've havent seen a comparison of case volume variance to powder weight variance.

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Best Powder Scale

Update

Just got word from my scale seller that he will get a warranty credit from MyWeigh I201 and refund my total purchase price.

To the OP whatever you buy make sure you get something that the manufacturer/seller will stand behind the product. If you are dead set on Digital certainly consider MyWeigh and if you are going to buy any reloading gear Brian Enos Estore is a great place to shop.

I've achieved total enlightenment.

 

[230grRN]

Re: Best Powder Scale

I just went through this same predicament, I had three different scales, an older Hornady Pacific balance, a Lyman DPS and a Dillon digital.

The DPS worked good, but was slow and wasn't always repeatable, went to the Dillon and it wanted to drift all the time, probably due to the Flouresent lights over my bench, and the Hornady just doesn't had the sensitivity it once had.

So at this point I just sold off the DPS and Dillon, and I'm currently waiting for a balance scale that has been tuned by Scott Parker, who I've heard really knows how to tune balance scales. The claim is it will show movement with just one kernel added to the pan, I guess I'll find out!

 

[George63]

Re: Best Powder Scale

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tolnep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">im curious..

i would assume case volume can be more important than the weighing to the .1 gr.

there's lots of talk about scales here but i've havent seen a comparison of case volume variance to powder weight variance.

</div></div>

it is practical to weigh powder to .1 grains - trying to measure case volume to a similar standard is not practical

 

[Bob 964]

Re: Best Powder Scale

I use the Denver Instrument MXX-123. Precise to 0.02 gr. I have no complaints.

 

[aloreman]

Re: Best Powder Scale

Actually magnetically dampened beam scales are also affected by florescent lights. The emf induced by the ballast causes all kinds of funny crap.

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: Best Powder Scale

They still don't have all the gremlins out of the electronics. I have my doubts that they will ever be 100% accurate. My beam doesn't require batteries so I can use it any place.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Best Powder Scale

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tolnep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">im curious..

i would assume case volume can be more important than the weighing to the .1 gr.

there's lots of talk about scales here but i've havent seen a comparison of case volume variance to powder weight variance.

</div></div>

IMH experience brass of the same brand, the weight variation mean nothing, my current load for my 260Rem has a repeatable SD of 5 and a ES of 11, these numbers come from various range sessions, I'm using Win 7-08 and Win 243, resized to 260Rem, Neck Turned, Pockets Uniformed and Flash Holes deburred, FL every time, trimmed every time, .002 neck tension on 142 SMK. The reason I use Win brass is because its the cheapest, and after all the work shoot dam good, I lose a lot of brass at a match, at 42 cents or less each its the cheapest 260Rem brass there is. Also IMHO a large case like 300WM may not be as sensitive to .1 variations in charge weights due to there volume as a smaller case which most of us shoot.

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: Best Powder Scale

What is best can vary depending upon where you are going to do your reloading.

If you are going to reload in my garage, then you will use a beam scale. The florescent lights directly overhead, proximity to the fuse box and periodic gentle draft coming though the garage vents make using something as twitchy and prone to drifting (at least in my garage) as a Denver Instrument MXX-123 simply impossible... I know I tried.

I stand by my Ohaus 10-10 tuned by Scot Parker.

If you can successfully use a digital good for you. My reloading environment will not allow it currently.

JeffVN

 

[1066]

Re: Best Powder Scale

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 230grRN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm currently waiting for a balance scale that has been tuned by Scott Parker, who I've heard really knows how to tune balance scales. The claim is it will show movement with just one kernel added to the pan, I guess I'll find out!

</div></div>
A single kernel of powder is quite possible with a good, well set-up beam scale.
This is my humble 502's working, showing single kernels of Varget.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnVOoGd1bDU

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Best Powder Scale

My Dillon can register single kernels of Varget, IMR 4064/4895, RL19 easily.

I'm having much more fun, gaining confidence in my ammo and having it show on target this time, (my second batch of rifle), relying on my beam.

I've taken the lighted magnifying glass shown in the pic from my press and I place it in front of the balance mark so it is easy to hit my exact weight despite my crappy eyesight.

I dont chase bench rest rounds. There is no check of runout, truing primer pockets, trimming necks, etc. I've limited my concerns to buying good projectiles and consistent powder charges. Until I can shoot better this works for me.

 

[Shoottothrill]

Re: Best Powder Scale

Anyone tried one of these:

Sartorius AY-303 Milligram Scale

It's for Pharmaceutical use but say it's accurate to .001 of a grain.

Available here. Precision Weighing Balances

 

[jerseymike]

Re: Best Powder Scale

If you're a tactical match or recreational shooter the chargemaster is the way to go. If youre having issues with overthrows try the straw mod. Have been using it with varget and hasnt overthrown since

 

[68GT]

Re: Best Powder Scale

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Dillon can register single kernels of Varget, IMR 4064/4895, RL19 easily.</div></div>

so does mine...

 

[pmclaine]

Re: Best Powder Scale

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RQI</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Dillon can register single kernels of Varget, IMR 4064/4895, RL19 easily.</div></div>

so does mine...

</div></div>

Very nice set up. Must be nice to have 99.9% confidence in your powder drops.

I cant trust my Dillon powder measure drops until they have been weighed on my Dillon balance beam.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Best Powder Scale

My 17 dollar lee safety scale registers single kernals of varget.

The thing just fuckin works. Not intuitive and they apparently don't give instructions with it. Once you figure the locking mechanism, it works quite well.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Best Powder Scale

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RQI</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Dillon can register single kernels of Varget, IMR 4064/4895, RL19 easily.</div></div>

so does mine...

</div></div>


It's more like 1/3 of a kernel, and every 8-10 seconds.

When this question comes up I see a lot of people justifying or trying to say there scale is the best or just as good as but way cheaper than the Prometheus Gen2, simple truth is the Gen2 is the best, bar none, sure there are other scales out there that are super duper lab accurate, but the Gen2 is more than just a scale, it is powder dispensing system with no equal, the only thing even close to it is a ChargeMaster, but there nowhere near as accurate, repeatable, or as fast. I said this many times, I didn't get my Gen2 because it is dead nuts accurate, I got it because its fast, I work 12 hour days, spend 2.5 hours commuting, my days off are spent with my family first, chores second, fun third, less time reloading means more time shooting. And looking over the PRS top 20 shooters I see 8 people who are using a Gen2, there is probably another couple in there who I don't know but are keeping there use of one a secret. You either get it or you don't.

 

[Layton]

Re: Best Powder Scale

It's a little slower but I just use a Lee measure kit(spoons) to get close(1 spoon of powder), then an Omega trickler over a Sartorius scale to get my final charge weight. Total investment is around $500. My error rate is +/- a portion of a single kernel of powder as no 2 kernels weigh exactly the same. I only load a 100 or so rounds at a time so pumping out hundreds or thousands of rounds at a time isn't a concern for me. (I'm going for quality over quantity for what I do.) I have VERY consistent velocities as a result.

And I use my real name so if I ever sound like I'm making outrageous claims I'm easy to track down.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Best Powder Scale

Brian Smith, I can be found 3-5 days a week at the Southwest Airlines Maintenance Hangar at Dallas Love Field, 2630 Shorecrest Ave, 0530-1730.

 

[68GT]

Re: Best Powder Scale

outrageous claims? not when its the truth. A horse and buggy and an automobile will both get you to work...