Best Seater Die for Precison and Die Issue.

[Stillwagon]

I've only been reloading now for a few weeks but am curious to get input on the best seater die for precise measurements. I'm currently loading for 6.5 creedmoor and have used hornady custom and standard rcbs dies and have had some concerns.
After setting my die to the desired position I always seem to be 1-3 thousandths off high or low on probably half of what I load.
Can someone explain to me if this is a die issue or if this is normal with these types of dies? And what is the best die available for precise seating? Cost is not and a concern, I just want precision.

Thanks

 

[1J04]

You're probably gonna wanna look at Micrometer Seater Dies, kinda like the Forster Ultra Micrometer Seater Dies or others. You can also look into Reddings Competition Shell Holders as well. As far as your 'concerns' over the Seater you have, and being +/- 1-3 thou off, you might wanna share just how you set up your Die, the Press, info regarding Brass, and definitely whether or not someone that know what 'they're' doing is mentoring you. If you're going by ANY Die manufacturer's instructions, that's probably a good 1st place to look. You can just toss those in the garbage.

 

[spife7980]

could be a bullet issue, could be a neck tension issue. All we know of is that the steel in the die isnt moving randomly.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I've only been reloading now for a few weeks but am curious to get input on the best seater die for precise measurements. I'm currently loading for 6.5 creedmoor and have used hornady custom and standard rcbs dies and have had some concerns.
After setting my die to the desired position I always seem to be 1-3 thousandths off high or low on probably half of what I load.
Can someone explain to me if this is a die issue or if this is normal with these types of dies? And what is the best die available for precise seating? Cost is not and a concern, I just want precision.

Thanks

If you have a lot of seating depth variation then you may want to look at your case prep (neck tension consistency and chamfer), case fill percentage, and bullet to seating stem fit. Even the cheapest seating dies are capable of excellent consistency

 

[Stillwagon]

Rock chucker single press, brand new hornady brass, hornady 140gr bthp, and Im setting the dies per manufacturer instructions

 

[spife7980]

Are you 1-3 thou high or low on COAL or on CBTO?

 

[Stillwagon]

CBTO

 

[XLR308]

There are still alot of variables unanswered but several of the main culprits have allready been pointed out.
If you are measuring the actual COAL and not to the ogive that is one source of the variation.
Even some of the best and most precise bullets will show some variation from bullet to bullet due to slight variation in the length of the nose forward of the ogive.
You stated a variation of +/- .003" that is not out of the norm for many bullets if you are just measuring the COAL and not taking into consideration that variable.
There is also the possibility that your chosen bullets point is not a precise match to the interior dimension of you seating stem or possibly making contact with the tip of the bullet before being fully supported.
You can easily check this by pulling the stem and verifying that there is no gap or wobble to the bullet when the nose is inserted into the stem.
Point or meplat damage as well excessive run out would be another way to check this.
Some of the newer bullet designs as they become longer and more sleek will end up requiring a Vld seating stem even if they are not listed as VLD design, one in particular is the 150SMK.
I initially had intended to load this bullet in a set of Redding Type S dies but ended up having to order a VLD stem before I could continue with them.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Did you size and chamfer the new brass? Is your load compressed? Does the bullet get full circumferential contact in the seating stem?

 

[Stillwagon]

There are still alot of variables unanswered but several of the main culprits have allready been pointed out.
If you are measuring the actual COAL and not to the ogive that is one source of the variation.
Even some of the best and most precise bullets will show some variation from bullet to bullet due to slight variation in the length of the nose forward of the ogive.
You stated a variation of +/- .003" that is not out of the norm for many bullets if you are just measuring the COAL and not taking into consideration that variable.
There is also the possibility that your chosen bullets point is not a precise match to the interior dimension of you seating stem or possibly making contact with the tip of the bullet before being fully supported.
You can easily check this by pulling the stem and verifying that there is no gap or wobble to the bullet when the nose is inserted into the stem.
Point or meplat damage as well excessive run out would be another way to check this.
Some of the newer bullet designs as they become longer and more sleek will end up requiring a Vld seating stem even if they are not listed as VLD design, one in particular is the 150SMK.
I initially had intended to load this bullet in a set of Redding Type S dies but ended up having to order a VLD stem before I could continue with them.

I will check the stem although the hornady set came with the extra stem for amax/eld bullets and I have used both stems and keep getting similar results.

 

[Stillwagon]

Did you size and chamfer the new brass? Is your load compressed? Does the bullet get full circumferential contact in the seating stem?

I didn’t do anything to the new brass but should I be chamfering it out of the bag or box?
I’m not sure what you mean by compressed? And I haven’t looked at the bullet and stem contact. I have tried both stems in the hornady set though.

 

[Snuby642]

I have yet to get a box of 100 bullets from any brand that did not have some tolerance in lenght and some bto to a lessor extent.

So I figure half of your tolerance is beyond resonable controll.

If you want to measure each bullet you might miss flipper.

 

[Snuby642]

I didn’t do anything to the new brass but should I be chamfering it out of the bag or box?
I’m not sure what you mean by compressed? And I haven’t looked at the bullet and stem contact. I have tried both stems in the hornady set though.

You are running virgin brass without processing it?

You will get bad results.

I treat virgin brass as if it were clean range pickup brass.

Imho

 

[Stillwagon]

I have yet to get a box of 100 bullets from any brand that did not have some tolerance in lenght and some bto to a lessor extent.

So I figure half of your tolerance is beyond resonable controll.

If you want to measure each bullet you might miss flipper.

Thanks
And yes I’ve been measuring every round.

 

[Stillwagon]

You are running virgin brass without processing it?

You will get bad results.

I treat virgin brass as if it were clean range pickup brass.

Imho

That’s correct
I didn’t realize anything needed done to it

 

[Snuby642]

I size, trim and champher and tumble each new piece of brass.

That way next time it will be the same.

New brass is often long, un champhered not set to your die and too dry / no wax , neck tension not set.

If worked the next load will be closer to what you had less fire forming.

Do you have some previous fired brass to set your shoulder bump from?

 

[XLR308]

CBTO

If you have the tools take a hand full of the bullets your using and sort them by bearing surface to see

I size, trim and champher and tumble each new piece of brass.

That way next time it will be the same.

New brass is often long, un champhered not set to your die and too dry / no wax , neck tension not set.

If worked the next load will be closer to what you had less fire forming.

Do you have some previous fired brass to set your shoulder bump from?

This is good advise if you don't know what your fired brass dimension is compared to new unfired dimension.
My 6.5 Creedmoor chambered by Kelblys averaged .0015- .002 on new Lapua brass and my 6.5x47 Lapua chambered by WAR Rifles is about the same so I just run a turning arbor through them to make neck tension consistent.
Other than that they are very consistent and the last batch of 6.5x47 I just verified seating depth and ran with them for velocity and pressure tests and wasn't disappointed even though it would have better to even out neck tension.
Eliminate as many variables as you can before deciding you have a problem will help you more than asking questions.

 

[Stillwagon]

I size, trim and champher and tumble each new piece of brass.

That way next time it will be the same.

New brass is often long, un champhered not set to your die and too dry / no wax , neck tension not set.

If worked the next load will be closer to what you had less fire forming.

Do you have some previous fired brass to set your shoulder bump from?

Got it!
yeah I’ve loaded my used brass as well and have FL sized, cleaned, and trimmed. And have been getting the same results as far as the seating goes.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I didn’t do anything to the new brass but should I be chamfering it out of the bag or box?
I’m not sure what you mean by compressed? And I haven’t looked at the bullet and stem contact. I have tried both stems in the hornady set though.

New brass is often the most questionable. Just treat it like fired brass that doesn't need the shoulder pushed back. Size and chamfer for sure. You will get some cases that are loose and some that are so tight they will shave copper off of the bullet.

Compressed means you powder charge is larger than the space inside the case and the bullet compresses it down when it is seated. If you have a very compressed load then you can get inconsistent seating depths.

Take out your seating stem and fit it to a few of your bullets. If the tip of the bullets bottom out inside the stem you will get inconsistent seating depths as well as excessive runout.

+/-.003" CBTO variation is excessive.

 

[Stillwagon]

New brass is often the most questionable. Just treat it like fired brass that doesn't need the shoulder pushed back. Size and chamfer for sure. You will get some cases that are loose and some that are so tight they will shave copper off of the bullet.

Compressed means you powder charge is larger than the space inside the case and the bullet compresses it down when it is seated. If you have a very compressed load then you can get inconsistent seating depths.

Take out your seating stem and fit it to a few of your bullets. If the tip of the bullets bottom out inside the stem you will get inconsistent seating depths as well as excessive runout.

+/-.003" CBTO variation is excessive.

Thank you!
And no I shouldn’t be compressed I still have capacity inside the case after my powder charge.
I’m just learning as I go here! I have loaded about 200 rounds so far and haven’t had any issues. And have had some pretty good results but just want to tighten my groups up now that I’ve found the sweet spot seating depth.