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Best spotting scope for over 1 mile

rogerg12

Private
Minuteman
Dec 25, 2020
69
30
Palm Harbor, FL
I'm currently routinely shooting out to 1000 yds. I'm definitely working my way up to 1M, but if my dream world comes true one day...maybe 2M...and where ever I get over time.

What's the best spotting scope to see shots at those distances?

I see the Swarovski name show up a lot.

And should whatever I get binocular or mono?
 
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Swarovski has more options and features.
They're available in 85, 95, and 115 mm and you can get a binocular-style eyepiece for them.
I would love to own their 115mm but last I checked, the price was $5,700.00 with the standard eyepiece.

I also like the Zeiss Harpia 95mm plus the Kowa 88 and 99mm spotters.
The Kowa has unmatched Fluorite lens elements.
The Kowa runs around $3,200 for the 88 to $4,000.00 for the 99 but you can sometimes find both on sale.
The Harpia goes for $4,400.00

Check out https://www.birdforum.net/ for the best information on all of them.
 
Swarovski has more options and features.
They're available in 85, 95, and 115 mm and you can get a binocular-style eyepiece for them.
I would love to own their 115mm but last I checked, the price was $5,700.00 with the standard eyepiece.

I also like the Zeiss Harpia 95mm plus the Kowa 88 and 99mm spotters.
The Kowa has unmatched Fluorite lens elements.
The Kowa runs around $3,200 for the 88 to $4,000.00 for the 99 but you can sometimes find both on sale.
The Harpia goes for $4,400.00

Check out http://www.birdforum.net for the best possible information on all of them!
I don't mean to sound stupid, but I don't know how to translate mm into magnification. The 115 mm is going to have the most potential magnification?

And what eyepieces do I have to choose from...bi vs mono or is it more than that?

I apologize for the newbie questions but I'm clueless about this topic.

Let's assume money isn't an issue. I want the best that can let me see shots very far down range.
 
I don't mean to sound stupid, but I don't know how to translate mm into magnification. The 115 mm is going to have the most potential magnification?

And what eyepieces do I have to choose from...bi vs mono or is it more than that?

I apologize for the newbie questions but I'm clueless about this topic.

Let's assume money isn't an issue. I want the best that can let me see shots very far down range.

Just bigger lenses, which generally gives you a wider fov. Most anything you look at is going to be 20-60x.

Hensolt and Swarovski are where I would look, but it's not cheap to play in that deep end of the pool.

I'll second calling cameraland. He's solid and service has been great every time I've ordered from him.
 
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About a year ago I did some research regarding spotting scopes. For my purposes, I narrowed it down to the Swarovski STR 80 w/20-60 eyepiece and the Hensoldt Spotter 60. I finally went with the Swarovski and have been very pleased. I have attached a matrix comparing the two Makes of spotters if it helps.

If you are wanting to see a hole in a target at 1 mile, I don't know of a spotter that can do it. I am shooting well under a mile and would not be able to see that. I follow the bullet trace and look for splashes. @gr8fuldoug is exactly right, the mirage is a huge factor that only gets worse with magnification.
 

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I got a Swarovski STX with 120mm and the 1.7X add-on from Cameraland. Doug and Neal both spent time making sure I understood that it would take great weather to get maximum yardage out of it (or any spotting scope). Understood. I just wanted something that would give me the best chance down the range possible.
 
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I got a Swarovski STX with 120mm and the 1.7X add-on from Cameraland. Doug and Neal both spent time making sure I understood that it would take great weather to get maximum yardage out of it (or any spotting scope). Understood. I just wanted something that would give me the best chance down the range possible.
You stated that you wanted to see an impact at a mile (1760 yards.) You did not specify the caliber, so I'll assume a 30cal of some kind.

The main benefit of a large diameter objective lens is the increase in resolution. I'm not even sure you get a bigger FOV, depends on the design, but definitely the increase in resolution is what you're going for. I noticed you got a 120mm objective, so the cameralanders steered you in the right direction.

The limit we are dealing with here is Dawes resolution. According to the calculator, in order to be able to see a .308 caliber hole at 1760 yards, you need a minimum objective size of 115.6mm at 59.8X. This is exceptional conditions with a great target; in other words, the absolute minimum requirements in terms of optics and it's at the top end of spotters. I think the next step up is probably something that flies around in a Dragon Lady. :)

And yes, the conditions will have a LOT to say about this. Good luck.
 
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under 600 dollars a shot cam will do a better job for you than a spotting scope you will never have to think about mirage again and always be inches from what you want to see . no spotter is going to do that for you .spend more money and you can buy a professional system that will mark the shots you shoot there impacts and in which order you shot them leaving only shooting for you to think about .


or a cheaper product you might even find it for cheaper somewhere else .
what ever you get I hope it works well for you .
 
We've been using Shot Markers at the club for several years now. We have 23 lanes @ 1000 yards all set up with these devices. They work quite well, provided you hit the target and your bullet is supersonic.

I don't shoot ELR, so my knowledge of that is only anecdotal or videos. It seems that even hitting the target is the pain part of the challenge. The videos that I have seen all seem to depict people taking shots in the general direction of the target and hoping for the best. Then you have someone else with a spotter telling them how far (or near) they saw the hit and what type of correction to put in. If the spotter is unable to detect the hit, and that seems to happen fairly regularly depending on the terrain, things get more interesting.

At the club, when someone does not get on target within 2 rounds, we get them to shoot at a 100-yard target to confirm and then we get someone with a spotting scope set up behind the shooter and try to detect the trace. We don't like somebody blindly lobbing bullets into the target area where there is multiple thousands of dollars of equipment. We do our best to hide the hubs ($500) and only expose the wires and microphones but it's still a pain when a microphone is shot up or a cable is cut. (All of that has happened.)

That said, you do not need a multi kilobuck spotter, if you have a hybrid solution: A good spotting scope to read trace and spot the misses, and a Shot Marker system to get the exact location of the hits. Still need to protect the hub.
 
Late to the party here, you’ve made your decision, but if one is fixated on a spotter, for a bit more budget solution you could go with the 100mm Pentax spotter and one of their very good fixed mag eyepieces (which fit in a standard 1.25” [I think] telescope mount). Note I have not had this setup but did a lot of research and almost pulled the trigger. What axed it for me is there isn’t an angled version.

Using the Pentax XW7 eyepiece would get you to 90x. You could buy all of their eyepieces and not get near the Swaro’s price.

If you want a zoom, they make two and I hear the smc PENTAX Zoom Eyepiece 8mm-24mm (26x-78x on the 100mm) is the one to get.

Specs & eyepieces: https://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/binoculars/scope/pf-100ed/spec.html

Here are some articles on that scope. Lots of repeated ones, scroll down: https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/pentax/

And yeah, as mentioned above, there are optical limits to what you will be able to resolve. But this system seems to offer the biggest bang for the buck mainly due to the high quality eyepieces (with longish eye relief of 20mm for the fixed mag ones, I might add).

P.S. the jap sites have way better info than the US sites, for some reason.
 
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Update (12/16/22): I received the Swarovski STX 115mm scope. Much bigger and heavier than I expected, at least compared to my older Athlon Optics Argos HD 20-60x85 Spotting Scope I already had. In the first test, I set it up in a back room of my house overlooking a field, with lots of pine trees, which block most of the view beyond them, which is followed by a big lake. To see to or across the lake I have to look through a few small gaps in the trees. Trees are about 50-100 yards away and block most of the lake. But in the sparse and limited clearings, I can see across the lake to the other side (at least a mile away according to Google Maps).

I was able to see a 3-4ft white heron stalking prey in the marsh reeds across on the other side of the lake (at least 1-mile away) pretty clearly. I couldn't see the color of the bird's eyes, but the bird itself was pretty clear and big. My wife was amazed. And the bird definitely was not visible in the slightest by open eye. You have to strain to see the other side of the lake at all...it's mostly a blur. So, to see the bird that clearly was pretty amazing. In the Swarovski spotting scope, it was looming large...taking up 1/4 to 1/2 of the entire view (on nearly full magnification). You could easily see individual features, flaws in the feathers, and so on. We could see it get a small fish and hold it in its beak before swallowing.

And this was on a very overcast day, with light rain, and pretty low light. We had a big damaging cold front just finish moving through at the time. So, I would think that this would be among the more challenging days to spot anything long distance (other than mirage issues). At the same time I think if anything is going to get you an image it would be a Swarovski with the 115mm lens diameter objective. And this seemed to be the case...at low light we clearly saw a (big) bird at least a mile away.

After trying out my new spotting scope, I tried to put up my older Athlon spotting scope next to it to compare, but the heron was gone by the time I got the Athlon set up and I couldn't find anything else small to target on...other than back of some houses on the other side of the lake. I added the ME 1.7x to the Swarovski, but in my initial tests I couldn't tell how much magnification it added. It didn't appear to me to add that much (although I'm sure it does)...but the light, was as expected from adding magnification, even further cut down...so I don't know, in this testing scenario, if it improved things. If the bird was still there it would have been easier to see. But I was having to focus on the back of houses on a lake, so all I had was some larger framing, architectural elements, etc.

I did put up my old Athlon scope to focus on the back of the houses and was surprised that the images I saw weren't all that different magnification-wise (with or without the ME 1.7x). I'm sure it was different...but I just couldn't easily tell just randomly moving back and forth between the two scopes. So, that cheaper $350 Athlon scope is holding its own.

With that said, I assume the better Swarovski glass and the far bigger lens objective diameter will make the Swarovski a clear winner over the Athlon when I test it out on the range tomorrow. I'm going to point both of them out to 100, 300, 800, 1000, 1750, and 2000 yards and see the difference. I'll report back here what I saw.
 
You stated that you wanted to see an impact at a mile (1760 yards.) You did not specify the caliber, so I'll assume a 30cal of some kind.

The main benefit of a large diameter objective lens is the increase in resolution. I'm not even sure you get a bigger FOV, depends on the design, but definitely the increase in resolution is what you're going for. I noticed you got a 120mm objective, so the cameralanders steered you in the right direction.

The limit we are dealing with here is Dawes resolution. According to the calculator, in order to be able to see a .308 caliber hole at 1760 yards, you need a minimum objective size of 115.6mm at 59.8X. This is exceptional conditions with a great target; in other words, the absolute minimum requirements in terms of optics and it's at the top end of spotters. I think the next step up is probably something that flies around in a Dragon Lady. :)

And yes, the conditions will have a LOT to say about this. Good luck.
Thanks for the information. I'm shooting 6.5CM right now. I'm just looking for the best spotting scope that can see the farthest and best given any conditions. Of course, many times you're just not looking for something the size of the bullet. You're able to see dust kick up from a missed shot, see a spinner target, see a target moving, or see a splatter target. But all points taken.
 
Update (12/16/22): I received the Swarovski STX 115mm scope. Much bigger and heavier than I expected, at least compared to my older Athlon Optics Argos HD 20-60x85 Spotting Scope I already had. In the first test, I set it up in a back room of my house overlooking a field, with lots of pine trees, which block most of the view beyond them, which is followed by a big lake. To see to or across the lake I have to look through a few small gaps in the trees. Trees are about 50-100 yards away and block most of the lake. But in the sparse and limited clearings, I can see across the lake to the other side (at least a mile away according to Google Maps).

I was able to see a 3-4ft white heron stalking prey in the marsh reeds across on the other side of the lake (at least 1-mile away) pretty clearly. I couldn't see the color of the bird's eyes, but the bird itself was pretty clear and big. My wife was amazed. And the bird definitely was not visible in the slightest by open eye. You have to strain to see the other side of the lake at all...it's mostly a blur. So, to see the bird that clearly was pretty amazing. In the Swarovski spotting scope, it was looming large...taking up 1/4 to 1/2 of the entire view (on nearly full magnification). You could easily see individual features, flaws in the feathers, and so on. We could see it get a small fish and hold it in its beak before swallowing.

And this was on a very overcast day, with light rain, and pretty low light. We had a big damaging cold front just finish moving through at the time. So, I would think that this would be among the more challenging days to spot anything long distance (other than mirage issues). At the same time I think if anything is going to get you an image it would be a Swarovski with the 115mm lens diameter objective. And this seemed to be the case...at low light we clearly saw a (big) bird at least a mile away.

After trying out my new spotting scope, I tried to put up my older Athlon spotting scope next to it to compare, but the heron was gone by the time I got the Athlon set up and I couldn't find anything else small to target on...other than back of some houses on the other side of the lake. I added the ME 1.7x to the Swarovski, but in my initial tests I couldn't tell how much magnification it added. It didn't appear to me to add that much (although I'm sure it does)...but the light, was as expected from adding magnification, even further cut down...so I don't know, in this testing scenario, if it improved things. If the bird was still there it would have been easier to see. But I was having to focus on the back of houses on a lake, so all I had was some larger framing, architectural elements, etc.

I did put up my old Athlon scope to focus on the back of the houses and was surprised that the images I saw weren't all that different magnification-wise (with or without the ME 1.7x). I'm sure it was different...but I just couldn't easily tell just randomly moving back and forth between the two scopes. So, that cheaper $350 Athlon scope is holding its own.

With that said, I assume the better Swarovski glass and the far bigger lens objective diameter will make the Swarovski a clear winner over the Athlon when I test it out on the range tomorrow. I'm going to point both of them out to 100, 300, 800, 1000, 1750, and 2000 yards and see the difference. I'll report back here what I saw.
One thing to be aware if you were spotting through window glass. Some window panes in my house are definitely wavy and make good optic’s images look like crap. I open the window and voila, crystal-clear images pop out of the same optic.

Even good window glass is going to knock down the spotter’s resolution and contrast somewhat.
 
I did another test just now out of window and through the forest and over the lake today. I found a good, what looked like 4'x6' sign with writing on the other side of the lake (again just over 1 mile). Both the $350 Athlon spotting scope (max magnification is 60) and the $5000 Swarovski (max magnification is 70x) easily displayed it. Typical FL weather today...with a fair amount of mirage showing up...which surprised me because I'm viewing over a lake and not over hot ground. New lesson learned. The Swarovski had the better image in both size and clarify. I've seen the sign before with my Athlon rifle scope (Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56) and it contains a message...with fairly big letters, 6 to 12 inches, but with both the Athlon rifle scope and the Athlon spotting scope I could never read the message. With the Swarovski, I could easily read the big letters and I was able to, with straining, to make out the smaller letters. I put on the ME 1.7X to see how that changed things and it definitely made the sign and letters larger, but it also made the letters slightly less clear and a bit lighter in color. I'm guessing this loss of definition is expected. I found myself wondering which (with or without the ME 1.7x added) I would use at the range for which situation?
 
That is great to hear. It's all about the size of the objective lens (and glass quality, of course.) At 2000 yards, with the 115mm objective, the smallest object that can be resolved is about 0.35 inch at 60X magnification. Adding more magnification only makes the objects bigger, it will not bring in more detail. More magnification beyond 60X is great for targets and aiming, and all that, but not for birding, as you discovered with the 1.7X extender. The letters are bigger, but they look softer because of lack of further detail.

And as you know, IQ will degrade rapidly with conditions.
 
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For Christmas, my wife gifted me a 1.6X extender for my Kowa 883, along with Kowa's newest eyepiece, the TE-80XW. This last one is an extra-wide angle eyepiece at a fixed magnification. It's made for the Kowa 88x @35X and the Kowa 99x @ 40X.

I'm very much into digiscoping with my Kowa and my Nikon D7500. I'm looking forward to digiscoping with the 80XW.
 
I did some tests on a couple of different spotting scopes people in the shooting club had(300 meters, targets is 1x1m i think). The price roughly doubles between each spottingscope, but chromatic abberation, sharpness and field of view gets progressingly better. Hopefully this can be some kind of guide as to what you actually get with the different scopes.

(images were taken afocaly with Iphone, and were all looing a bit better IRL)

Testoptik.jpg
 
For Christmas, my wife gifted me a 1.6X extender for my Kowa 883, along with Kowa's newest eyepiece, the TE-80XW. This last one is an extra-wide angle eyepiece at a fixed magnification. It's made for the Kowa 88x @35X and the Kowa 99x @ 40X.

I'm very much into digiscoping with my Kowa and my Nikon D7500. I'm looking forward to digiscoping with the 80XW.
How have you like the TE-80XW?
 
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How have you like the TE-80XW?
It's a great eyepiece. A little pricey, but it delivers. I have been using it at the monthly matches (1000 yards) and it has now replaced the long eye relief eyepiece that I had on there from the start. The 80XW is just that good. Over the last few years, I have become enamored of the wide-angle eyepieces such as the ones in the March-FX 4.5-28X52 and the 5-42X56. I'm so looking forward to the March 8-80X56 with its wide-angle eyepiece. Looking through the wide-angle eyepieces shows you more of the target area at the same magnification.

The specs of the excellent 25X LER show the FOV to be 111 feet at 1000 yards (37m @ 1000m). The awesome 80XW has a field of view of 135feet @ 1000 yards (45m @ 1000m). You have a much bigger image at a higher magnification. What's not to like, well, except for the price. The 80XW does not have the long eye relief, but the image is so awesome.
 
I did some tests on a couple of different spotting scopes people in the shooting club had(300 meters, targets is 1x1m i think). The price roughly doubles between each spottingscope, but chromatic abberation, sharpness and field of view gets progressingly better. Hopefully this can be some kind of guide as to what you actually get with the different scopes.

(images were taken afocaly with Iphone, and were all looing a bit better IRL)

View attachment 8036251
this is an incredible comparison sir, bravo. perfect for showing a newcomer on what to expect from different price points
 
Yeah, I understand. $700 for an eyepiece is a bit of a shock.
Yeah....I just keep thinking about other stuff I could buy .... Like a better rangefinder for one....a new pistola, etc.... But I'd like to have the eyepiece nevertheless.

I imagine it's a great companion for the extender, too.
 
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Yeah....I just keep thinking about other stuff I could buy .... Like a better rangefinder for one....a new pistola, etc.... But I'd like to have the eyepiece nevertheless.

I imagine it's a great companion for the extender, too.
I have the 1.6x extender but I have not tried it with the 80XW yet. Thanks for reminding me, I might try it this weekend and report back.
 
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I went ahead and tried the 80-XW with the 1.6X extender this weekend. Combining the two devices produces a magnification of 56X, with a wide angle of view. At long distance over open terrain, it works just fine. I also tried it looking at closer in objects like houses and rooftops and I found there was some barrel distortion at the edges. I'm not quite sure if it was my imagination or just something to do with my eyesight. I was going to take some pictures, but I had left my photo adapter at the house, so digiscoping was not an option.

This was my first attempt with the extender, I did notice that while I had to remove the PA collar from the 883 body, the extender provides its own threads so I could screw in the PA collar on it, after installing it on the body of the 883. I leave the PA collar on my 883 all the time because I do quite a bit of digiscoping with my D7500.

All that said, while the 1.6X extender seems to work quite well with the 80XW (and I will be trying it with my other eyepieces, maybe even the astronomical Baader unit,) I don't see any benefit to using it with the 80XW. This eyepiece gains nothing from the extender, and indeed it loses some of its magnificence, if I can use that word here. The 80XW is a superb eyepiece on its own, it needs nothing but your eye or camera.
 
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I did some tests on a couple of different spotting scopes people in the shooting club had(300 meters, targets is 1x1m i think). The price roughly doubles between each spottingscope, but chromatic abberation, sharpness and field of view gets progressingly better. Hopefully this can be some kind of guide as to what you actually get with the different scopes.

(images were taken afocaly with Iphone, and were all looing a bit better IRL)

View attachment 8036251
It would be interesting to do another test but start with the Razor at the low end and work your way up to, I don’t know, a Swaro?
  1. Razor
  2. Maven
  3. Meopta
  4. Kowa
  5. Zeiss
  6. Swaro Str-80
  7. Swaro ATX
Just an idea for anyone with access to this gear. Don’t take my list as an image ranking, it’s just a general price stepage/top of my mind thing.

I’m sure there would be less variation than the cheap stuff vs decent stuff of the last comparo, but…
 
I went ahead and tried the 80-XW with the 1.6X extender this weekend. Combining the two devices produces a magnification of 56X, with a wide angle of view. At long distance over open terrain, it works just fine. I also tried it looking at closer in objects like houses and rooftops and I found there was some barrel distortion at the edges. I'm not quite sure if it was my imagination or just something to do with my eyesight. I was going to take some pictures but I had left my photo adapter at the house, so digiscoping was not an option.

This was my first attempt with the extender, I did notice that while I had to remove the PA collar from the 883 body, the extender provides its own threads so I could screw in the PA collar on it, after installing it on the body of the 883. I leave the PA collar on my 883 all the time because I do quite a bit of digiscoping with my D7500.

All that said, while the 1.6X extender seems to work quite well with the 80XW (and I will be trying it with my other eyepieces, maybe even the astronomical Baader unit,) I don't see any benefit to using it with the 80XW. This eyepices gains nothing from the extender, and indeed it loses some of its magnificence, if I can use that word here. The 80XW is a superb eyepiece on its own, it needs nothing but your eye or camera.
Very interesting. Thank you for posting this.
 
Kowa 883
TE 80XW eyepiece

one pic without 1.6x extender (35x) and one with (56x). This was taken on my iphone 10s max on 1x optical. Just held my hand. Approx 900 yards to the building.

My bad on the glare on the 1.6x pic, didn’t use my hand to cover the eyepiece, there was alot of sun coming from my left side.

Take from it what you will, unfortunately I don’t have the 25-60x TE-11WZ eyepiece to compare it to.
 

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Wouldnt a camera focused on the target with a transmitter sending video to your phone or laptop be more realistic. You could get cameras for various distances. Should be less $$$ than a $4000 spotting scope/
 
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If you want the ultimate spotter, then the fluorite kowa highlanders is a no brainer, blows everything else away, not even the mighty btx 115mm swaro can compare.
 
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If you want the ultimate spotter, then the fluorite kowa highlanders is a no brainer, blows everything else away, not even the mighty btx 115mm swaro can compare.
The Kowa Highlander Fluorite model is definitely the top, but at 14 pounds and 17inches by 9 1/2 inches, it's kinda big looking through it in position. I have seen some team coaches using them.
 
The Kowa Highlander Fluorite model is definitely the top, but at 14 pounds and 17inches by 9 1/2 inches, it's kinda big looking through it in position. I have seen some team coaches using them.
it’s large and heavy no doubt, but for effortless, extended spotting sessions, its the bees knees
 
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it’s large and heavy no doubt, but for effortless, extended spotting sessions, its the bees knees
I completely agree with that, which is why I was a little envious of the coaches who had such optics during my coaching days. The price is steep on those Highlanders, but it is what it is. I find the 883 to be about as good as it gets for viewing from position and being able to detect every twitch of mirage and still have a great IQ.

I have a friend who uses the BTX stuff from Swarovski, the one with the dual eyepiece and he swears by it. It's a dual eyepiece on a single barrel so it does not have the 3D effect, but because both eyes are used, the overall experience is better than a monocular optic.
 
I'm currently routinely shooting out to 1000 yds. I'm definitely working my way up to 1M, but if my dream world comes true one day...maybe 2M...and where ever I get over time.

What's the best spotting scope to see shots at those distances?

I see the Swarovski name show up a lot.

And should whatever I get binocular or mono?

Swarovski shows up a lot because it is the reference standard by which all others are judged. Kowa is great. Hensoldt is great. Leupold is good. Vortex is good. But Swaro has a Rainbow Unicorn pee on every unit before it leaves the factory, giving it that intangible magic that makes them so damned glorious. No one ever regretted buying a Swaro.

I have both the 95mm ATX and 115mm BTX. They are magical. 115mm wins by a nose, and the BTX eyepiece is magical. You can sit behind it with your face planted to it all day long with zero fatigue. Only downside is size. It’s not something you take on a hike, but something you sit behind from a fixed position.

Moon photos are using the 115mm BTX. Full moon is without 1.7x TC, cropped moon is using the 1.7x TC. Handheld iPhone, so not the best. It’s actually better looking TTL.

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